Some Common Sense On Refugees and Migrants

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36 Responses

  1. Allla hu-snackbar says:

    Would you agree with this woman or not?

  2. Nonnie says:

    A FB friend and I were discussing this today. We both agreed we wanted to have a Christ-like approach to receiving needy people and doing what we could for those the Lord brings our way. At the same time, we are both concerned about people coming who hate our culture and will want to bring Sharia law, etc, etc. It was nice to have a conversation where no one called anyone names or cursed. Ultimately, we both agreed that God is on the throne and we want to glorify Him. Praying for wisdom and pray for our leaders.

  3. Michael says:

    I’m not sure what the question really is.
    I don’t believe in intra faith meetings.
    I don’t shout out against curses either.

    We live in a country that allows religious freedom and that includes Islam.

    However, I do not believe it is culturally or spiritually compatible with the ideals of our country…and that is an undeniable issue when it comes to refugees.

  4. Linda says:

    I don’t know how our country or any other country would have any idea about the background of the refugees. I am sure they are not all carrying identification and papers with their criminal background and a list of groups they are associated with. Do you think they would admitt if they are associated with ISIS? I am hearing that 70% are younger adult males. I don’t believe people should be ridiculed or considered a bigot for being concerned. We probably should be fighting ISIS in Syria. Regarding the video posting by snack bar, I do think it is sad that Christians have forgotten, or were never educated about the tragedies of the Reformation and the atrocities committed by the Catholic Church against Bible believing Christians. Does anyone even know that the Catholic Catechism says that Catholics worship the same god as Islam, and that the Vatican holds interfaith prayor meetings? This past November Pope Francis prayed with the Grand Mufti in Turkey’s Blue Mosque while facing Mecca. I do believe in freedom of religion but the problem is that Islam is more than a religion. I do think a Sharia law may be how it all goes down -as they are already cutting off the heads of Christians. Everyone should read Dave Hunts book “A Woman Rides The Beast”.

  5. Michael says:

    Dave Hunt’s book “A Woman Rides The Beast” is a horrible book full of historical and theological error.

  6. Linda says:

    Michael – please give some examples of error in a “woman rides the Beast”. History seems to be like gossip in that unless you were there to see things first hand – everyone seems to have a different version. You can go to other historical sources to try and validate the history in the book. I think the a Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to try to erase it’s history, and has done a lot of lobbying to get it out of text books. When the text books talk about The Crusades there is no mention that the Pope promised less time in purgatory for the fighters and that the Crusaders locked Jews up in their synagogues and started them on fire – among many other horrible things directed or done by the Vicar of Christ throughout history.

  7. Patrick Kyle says:

    Michael,

    The only difference between invasion and mass immigration is the initial speed and violence involved. The net effect is the same. I suspect that what passes for immigration today has no real parallel in the Scriptures.

  8. Michael says:

    Linda,

    That book and the book that inspired it, “The Two Babylons”, by Hislop have been utterly debunked.
    Google it.

    Any serious student of church history, reading any decent volume on church history, will be well aware of the indulgences offered for the Crusades and how the RC dealt with Jews at various times.

    That is the top of the iceberg of RC offenses…none of which have been “erased”… most of which are very easily available in any real church history textbook.

    To claim otherwise is nothing more than declaring ignorance of scholarly materials.

    I have at least a dozen…all available on Amazon.

  9. Michael says:

    Patrick,

    As you are aware, we disagree on this matter.
    I think the Scripture is very applicable…we need to deal carefully with assimilation just as Israel did.

  10. Linda says:

    Michael – I do see online that Catholic websites debunk the book, which makes sense. Please give me one example of something in the book that is not historically true.

  11. Michael says:

    Linda,

    Do Roman Catholics always lie?
    Do they not know their own history?

    That book is twenty years old and I threw it out long ago with all the rest of Hunts books, which I also owned.

    I’m not buying another copy to help you out.

    The argument against Roman Catholicism isn’t prophecy or history, it’s Scripture…alone.
    We Protestants have our own baggage…

  12. Xenia says:

    Ralph Woodrow is a Protestant minister/ author who at one time held to the conspiracy theories of “The Two Babylons.” His own book on the topic was quite popular at one time. Then he studied further and realized the entire premise was hogwash and he no longer sells his own book.

    You can read all about it here http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-mystery.html and you can read some of his refutations of “The Two Babylons” near the end of the article.

    As for Dave Hunt, he sincerely believed a lot of bogus stuff about church history. He was a good man; he just should have done his own in depth research rather than relying on 2nd and 3rd hand information which often turned out to be quite false.

  13. Michael says:

    Hunt was a good man unless you were Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Reformed, Lutheran, or Anglican.

    They were all headed for the pit in his opinion.

  14. Xenia says:

    I would guesstimate that 90 percent of the people at my old CC (100 percent of the clergy) agreed w/ Dave Hunt’s opinions about Catholics, Orthodox, etc. They are still pretty good people in my book, just mistaken about some things.

  15. Xenia says:

    In his “Woman Rides the Beast” book Mr. Hunt makes the claim that the medieval heretical gnostic group the Cathars were really evangelical Christians, based on nothing more than the fact that the Catholics regarded them as heretical. They *were* heretical. I actually wrote Mr. Hunt a letter about this, citing medieval sources, but never heard back. (This was when I was an evangelical, btw.)

    So the writings of Dave Hunt are unreliable, I’m afraid.

  16. Xenia says:

    “The Two Babylon” fans and the “Trail of Blood” adherents have considerable overlap.

  17. Michael says:

    The mythology that there was always a group of evangelicals in the church is the real lie that these folks tell.

  18. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    What would you recommend as a church history primer?
    I’m thinking Justo Gonzales or Diamard MaCullough…

  19. Xenia says:

    I like Justo Gonzales very much. I haven’t read MaCullough’s First 3000 years yet.

  20. Sinner and Saint says:

    Michael,

    Gonzales’ two volumes are ones that I highly recommend. Used in church history courses in our best seminaries.

    For a primer, might I suggest Bruce Shelley’s “Church History in Plain Language”

  21. Xenia says:

    I 2nd Church History in Plain Language.

  22. Ms. ODM says:

    Fr. Malachi Martin – a Roman Catholic priest had worse things to say about the Vatican than Dave Hunt ever did — and he had a front row seat. Not only that but his death was very suspicious even after he exposed hits on those about to testify against evil goings on inside Rome.

    It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to see the pagan symbolism in RCC art and sacramentals. I used to be a Catholic — I know the idolatry they taught me to participate it

    Quit bashing Dave Hunt — He is a saint.

  23. Em says:

    i have a book written by Fr. Martin somewhere… he didn’t condemn the whole of R.C., but did say that there is, within the Vatican, a very anti-Christ segment with a very entrenched power base staying under the radar, but moving and growing steadily in the areas that they control… possibly the banking operation, but i don’t recall for certain…
    it seems to me that they are just like almost all our organized churches today – only bigger
    for my own curiosity now, i’ll have to see if i can locate the book – so much of my stuff is in storage

  24. OlderWiserFish says:

    …don’t rise to the bait…don’t rise to the bait…don’t rise to the bait…

  25. Allla hu-snackbar says:

    OLF, Are you a Master Bait?

  26. Muff Potter says:

    Love the mention of common sense in your post Michael.
    Unfortunately and to the detriment of us all, some have no interest whatsoever in reason & common sense, and would rather duke it out with the other side using rhetoric and propaganda.

  27. Xenia says:

    I’d believe Malachi Martin over Dave Hunt because as Mrs. ODM says, he had a front row seat. I’ve read some of his books, too.

    See, there’s a difference between someone who was actually there and made first hand observations and someone who read a lot of 2nd and 3rd hand material and cobbled together a book.

  28. Xenia says:

    For example, Mrs. ODM, I listened to a short mp3 talk Mr. Hunt gave on Eastern Orthodoxy, a subject I know a thing or two about. His talk was riddled with errors. He obviously got his material from anti-Orthodox sources and not from Orthodox sources and the result didn’t do much for his credibility as a researcher.

  29. Xenia says:

    All to say, I understand that Protestants have serious disagreements with Roman Catholicism. So do the Orthodox. Let’s make valid criticisms using original source material and eyewitness accounts rather than fables derived from biased secondary (or worse) sources. If you think the Catholics are wrong, for example, because you believe they teach salvation by works, prove them wrong by comparing their own authoritative writings (in context) with Scripture.

    Don’t be making up crazy stories about Nimrod.

  30. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well, if Fr. Malachi Martin says the anti christ will come out of the papacy – as he has seen, I agree

  31. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “If you think the Catholics are wrong, for example, because you believe they teach salvation by works, prove them wrong by comparing their own authoritative writings (in context) with Scripture.”

    Trent – CANON IX. If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is
    justified; in such wise as to mean,
    that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to th
    e obtaining the grace of Justification, and
    that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and d
    isposed by the movement of his own
    will; let him be anathema.

  32. Xenia says:

    MLD has demonstrated from their own writings that the RCC believes in salvation by works.

    No need to invoke Nimrod.

  33. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I will add though, that I find that most lay RCC when asked why they will go to heaven, will say Jesus.
    So they must ignore the teaching.:-)

  34. JTK says:

    ” I suspect that what passes for immigration today has no real parallel in the Scriptures”

    What of Abraham of Ur? (Immigration)
    Joseph’s family immigrating to Egypt?
    (Immigration)
    What of 1 million+ Hebrews leaving Egypt? (Refugees)

    What would you call those who eventually entered the Promised Land? Surely that is akin to illegal immigration. And they were KILLING those in the land.

    When Judah came back from Babylonian captivity, there was quite the stir! And an issue of a wall.

    The demographic changes leading up to the creation of Palestine of the Gospel era are complex and fascinating. Filled with immigrants and immigration policies, some of which would make Donald Trump look weak.

    Jesus and his parents fled Herod to Egypt, clearly an immigration and refugee-related topic.

    Acts 2 looked like a demographic travel logistical nightmare–visitors from EVERYWHERE! Then they all started selling their homes abroad to join the only church on earth, in the city of Jerusalem. I bet the Jerusalem Jewish population was severely unhappy about those thousands of immigrants coming their way! Talk about a culture shock, lack or assimilation.

    Untold numbers of Christian scattered due to persecution in the Acts of the Apostles period.

    And I’m just skimming the surface of the Bible, which is full of similar, somewhat similar and dissimilar stories of emigration, refugees, and immigration.

  35. Surfer51 says:

    If no Californians, of which I am one, hunted, fished or snow skied in Oregon, it’s economy would suffer greatly.

    Oregon is a giant playground for a lot of us Californians.

    And if the Californian, Qtips (old folks) did not retire there, bringing their life savings and assets with them, Oregon’s economy would suffer.

    I do recall the ugly slogan Oregonians had in the 70’s when the hippys were leaving California to live there…

    “Don’t Californicate Oregon.”

    Just saying.

  36. Flash Turbo says:

    One important concept to get straight as we struggle, or not, with the proper response to a refugee crisis, is “who is we?” If I have no land or food or resources to offer and I say “let them in” what does that mean? Who is really providing the hospitality? Let them in where, exactly?

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