Mean Tweets: KevinH
Just some mean tweets.
That is what we are often told by supporters of Donald Trump, including many Christians, as the reason why others don’t like him. Usually the story goes by pointing out all kinds of things that are wrong (real, exaggerated, and fabricated) with Joe Biden and the Democrats, and then saying that people are willing to put up with all these horrible things just because Donald Trump sometimes puts out some mean tweets. It is often said in a mocking tone, conjuring up a supposed incredulousness that people can favor the great evil and incompetence of Biden and the Democrats, just because of some mean tweets.
Just some mean tweets.
Donald Trump bragged that wealthy and powerful people like him can commit sexual assault, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump was found liable in a court of law for having committed sexual assault, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump likely cheated on his current wife with a porn star right after his wife had birthed their child, and then tried to cover it up by paying off the porn star, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump cheated on his previous wife and publicly flaunted doing so, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump was featured on the cover of Playboy magazine and owned and operated strip clubs in Atlantic City, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump was found liable in a court of law for having committed financial fraud, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump and his businesses have been involved in literally thousands of legal cases, many due to Trump’s tendencies to consistently push the envelope on unethical business and personal practices, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump is currently awaiting trial in four different criminal cases where he has been indicted on many, many different counts of crime, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump has caused arguably the greatest division in our country since the Civil War by continuously telling the lie that the last election was stolen from him while NEVER providing ANY verifiable or documented evidence to support his claim, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump hung out to dry the Vice President who loyally stood by his side for four years, even inciting the crowd when it was literally chanting for the VP’s hanging, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump has flipped-flopped multiple times on the issue of abortion, with one of his most recent flips being his calling of an abortion ban past 6 weeks a “terrible thing”, which ought to be especially disturbing to those who are truly pro-life, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump has consistently demeaned and denigrated the very “least of these” people who Jesus specially calls for us to care for, even to the extent of using a racist and genocidal trope previously used by Hitler, by saying they are “poisoning the blood of our country”, all of which ought to be especially disturbing to those who follow Christ, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump regularly speaks in terms of grievance, revenge, and retribution, attitudes which are anti-christ in nature and ought to be especially disturbing to those who follow Christ, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
Donald Trump has shared posts and videos on social media which subtly and not so subtly equate him to being Messiah, which ought to be especially disturbing to those who follow Christ, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
At a time when he suddenly needs financial funds, Donald Trump is selling Bibles that cunningly conflate God’s Word with America and says that it’s the “only” Bible that he endorses, all of which ought to be especially disturbing to those who follow Christ, but people reject him just because of some mean tweets.
The list could go on and on and on. The bottom line, however, is that there are a multitude of difficulties, concerns, and transgressions with Donald Trump and to play it off as “just some mean tweets”, goes beyond common disingenuousness, to a level of either great deceit or great self-delusion, or both.
Concerns and even disgust with politicians and parties who oppose Donald Trump are totally understandable and many times justified. However, that does not excuse the Christian from employing dishonest and deceptive practices in attempts to achieve political goals.
“Just some mean tweets” is just one of many dishonest and deceptive practices that Christians have taken on in recent years in their attempts to achieve their political goals. May the Church reject such chicanery and instead take on practices of which the primary goal is to seek, honor, and promote Christ, and not to seek and promote earthly political gains.
Partisan politics are poison to the soul.
Jesus is the cure.
My apologies…I incorrectly published a shortened version of this article.
I have no idea why you would ever want to shorten anything I write. Brevity is my middle name.
Can’t we just cut to the chase and say that Trump is corrupt and evil? We don’t even have to make it up!
Just for purposes of clarity and sanity, let me say this:
I continue to bang the drum on such subjects, not because I am obsessed (I hope I’m not, anyway), but rather because in the world of social media and the internet and even real life, I continue to see far more Christians participating in such behavior, and often even doing it under the pretenses as if it is righteous Christian behavior or even what God has told us to do, than I do those who are saying, “Hold on, this is not good and it misrepresents Christ,” and exhorting their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to think about what they’re doing and to stop doing it. All the more, I have come to find that it actually ends up encouraging other believers who have become fed up and disheartened with witnessing so much of this behavior. It encourages them to see a fellow believer taking a stand against what often feels like an overwhelming wave of discouraging behavior from other Christians.
So as long as I continue to see and experience such an imbalance in Christian behavior in these ways, especially among my broad tribe of theologically conservative evangelicals, then I will continue to try to do what little I can do in raising my voice against it and pointing to a better way of truly following Jesus. Michael has chosen, at least for this season, to host my voice about such things. The rest of you are stuck with it. 🙂
Linn,
Yes, but I must live up to my name of Brevity and write it out a little more. 🙂
I don’t think we’re going to change anybody’s mind and there is a risk here of wearing out the choir.
However, the Trump issue to me is about what it means to think and act like a Christian.
Again, to me, it shows us which sins are acceptable to Christians…which is any of them if you hate the same people they do.
This is the way the churches are run as well.
Judgment will begin in the house of God…and I want a record that shows I stood when I was called to do so.
“Just some mean tweets.” This is classic gas lighting. Minimizing and dismissing serious problems, and then implying that others are ‘over reacting’. It seems to be a major tool in Republicans’ toolbox now. If Christians are doing it, they need to realize that it is as much a sin as lying and bearing false witness. Thanks for clearly exposing the hypocrisy and gas lighting for all to see!
Lots of mean tweets here
New Tweet……..abhor evil.
Mean Tweets sounds like the title of a Netflix movie. Have you considered writing the screenplay?
The Jimmy Kimmel show has for years featured a segment called Mean Tweets where the actual celebrity will read aloud the things people wrote about them.
Kevin H,
With respect, I’m honestly not seeing substantial difference in the faction of believers promoting the virtues of ‘the alternate candidate’.
I immediately find equal, and amazingly interchangeable applicability in your statements by simply substituting the other individuals NAME …and similar shockingly ‘immoral JUSTIFICATIONS’ …employed with the intention to lessen the severity of this individual’s behavior and policies.
“The list could go on and on and on. The bottom line, however, is that there are a multitude of difficulties, concerns, and transgressions with _______________ and to play it off as “just ______________”, goes beyond common disingenuousness, to a level of either great deceit or great self-delusion, or both.
Please, try it for yourself …swap their names and insert your choice of lukewarm, spiritually-compromised rationale that ‘winks at evil’…while employing a different set of ‘weights and measures’ that more scrupulously critiques the opponent.
You say that you’re simply providing a biblical response to the massive support given by the church, to the ‘unnameable’. However, what I’m seeing is slowly becoming indistinguishable from that which you oppose.
It is possible when zealously engaged in protracted battles fighting off oppression, …to eventually become the oppressor.
Jean,
As per John from AZ, it would seem Jimmy Kimmel may already own the legal property to “Mean Tweets”. So if I were to pursue a screenplay under the same name, I’ll have to hire you as my lawyer to defend me from whatever lawsuits may come my way.
Dave,
“With respect, I’m honestly not seeing substantial difference in the faction of believers promoting the virtues of ‘the alternate candidate’.”
I’m not sure what land you live in where you are seeing this, but here in America, Christians, particularly conservative evangelical Christians, have deservedly gained quite the reputation for voraciously, plentifully, foolhardingly, and inexcusably supporting and defending Donald Trump, even in his worst actions. In no manner whatsoever has any faction of Christianity come to be known for anywhere near the same fervor and devotion of support for Joe Biden or any other politician.
Does Christian support of these other politicians exist? Yes. Does the level and intensity of support come anywhere close to what exists for Donald Trump? Absolutely not. To assert that it does is similar to what I referred to in my article as either great deceit or great self-delusion.
Your substituting and fill-in-the-blank of other names just does not work, at least for the reality here in America. I am unaware of the political situation of places like Zimbabwe, Tajikistan, or Bolivia, so maybe you speak of one of them and you can fill us in.
Kevin I continue to believe that you are acting just like a partisan and cannot see it. It shows in the fact that your accusations are purely the partisan take. There is seriously never any sense of alternative understandings of any of the things posted or those not posted. Fairness is completely excluded and anyone who attempts to offer it gets silenced by accusations of partisan politics.
NEVERTHELESS, unlike most Christian leaders you are willing to call out and rebuke actual sins of your own faith community. The circling of the bulls (wagons) to defend indefensible offenses is a pervasive sin that makes an impenetrable wall. That wall must collapse. Like the one that protects clergy abuse, sexual and otherwise.
So, I am glad that you are making this fight, a clear modification of my thinking. I do wish you saw with clarity how your one-sided smearing weakens your argument. Overstatement is the hobgoblin of passionate debate.
In another arena it is good to see the folly of pastoral sexual immorality and abuse being taken on by serious voices in the evangelical and charismatic community. We may be at an inflection point that can carry us to better outcomes.
In some way you are contributing to that end. I accept that your motivation is as you always state it to be. As usual I will leave this discussion and give you the last word.
Alan – I appreciate that you see the good side of this article. I don’t think that what you are asking for is realistic.
If someone is presenting a case for something, do they really need to spend equal time laying out the other side? In your given example, if I write an article exposing pastoral sex abuse, do I really need to take all the time to point out the millions of faithful pastors who do not commit sexual abuse? That’sa just not really how one gets a point across.
Alan,
Thank you for taking me at my word and acknowledging what I’m trying to do.
I disagree with your take that my one-sided smearing weakens my argument, but I do recognize the risks of hearer fatigue by repeating many of the same themes over and over.
And maybe you are right that I cannot see my own partisanship, but to my best recognition, this along with the claim that I exclude fairness are what I disagree with most. There are many, many things that Joe Biden and other Democrats do that disturb me, greatly so sometimes. I do see progressive Christians supporting and justifying things they should have no business supporting and justifying. However, you understand why I choose to speak to the things I choose to speak to.
As for the above lists of wrongs above by Trump, yes, some can be quibbled with and other perspectives offered to reduce their “badness”. But I try my best to evaluate and speak to things based purely on a moral and God-centered perspective, and not worldly politics of any partisan persuasion, although I obviously fail to do this perfectly. The list is not meant to completely and perfectly prosecute Trump on each and every point, but to illustrate that there is a huge host of troubling aspects regrading Trump, even if some here and there can be sparred over as not really being that bad.
As for fairness, I am always more than open to to consider and discuss opposing viewpoints that are based in genuineness and some measure of reality. However, as I have been dealing with such things for many years now, I have come to less and less be able to suffer fools. When people make claims that are unsupported by any real or verifiable evidence or that so obviously conflict with truth or reality, I have come to learn that it is a frustrating, fruitless exercise to engage with such arguments. More times than not, I will just nip them in the bud and call them out for what they are, and not waste my time and sanity in trying to engage the conversation as I have never ever had even one experience with doing so that has ended up being fruitful in any way.
This is all too weird and surreal for me to understand.
If Kevin were simply a partisan Biden supporter and a loyal Democrat there would be absolutely no interest in publishing these articles from me.
If Trump was just another run of the mill Republican, I can’t imagine ever writing an article about him at all.
But in reality, Kevin is a Christian and a conservative and he’s writing about the church, not politics.
The idea of writing a “fair” article about someone as morally bankrupt as Trump is almost amusing.
The reality is, as I’ve said before, that Christians do not give a rats ass about character in leadership.
They care about “success”.
Holding a pastor or politician to something resembling biblical standards will get you crucified…ask me how I know.
There is bitterness creeping into my old soul…
Oh well, the rapture is Monday according to the prophets so Prince Liam The Cat and I won’t have to ponder this crap anymore.
Michael,
The Rapture is definitely coming because we just got an earthquake here this morning (4.8 on the Richter scale, which I know is nothing for the West Coasters, but is a big one for us East Coasters). Plus torrential rains the last few days. The eclipse must be the final act!
The question is, when Liam gets raptured, will he leave behind a big pile of fur, or does it not work that way for animals?
Michael,
And, yes, for whatever inexplicable reason, I have never had an inkling to write an article about Mitch McConnell or Mitt Romney or George W. Bush.
Liam always leaves a big pile of fur behind while remaining completely furred. The vacuum cleaner will stay, but not work.
“I disagree with your take that my one-sided smearing weakens my argument, but I do recognize the risks of hearer fatigue by repeating many of the same themes over and over.”
Why is it you NEVER write about Biden, Schumer, Newsom, Pelosi, … and all their lies, misinformation and such.
I agree with Allen, you are using your “Christian” perspective as an excuse to push your political agendas. You would do far better writing about what Jesus and the scriptures teach about how His followers should act and let people decide for themselves how to live it out.
Yes you are VERY partisan and regularly demonstrate it here (as do others).
“Why is it you NEVER write about Biden, Schumer, Newsom, Pelosi, ”
Because no one in the church is declaring them Gods Answer for America…
Bingo! I have yet to see Charismanews.com or The Christian Post run an article saying that Biden was chosen by God, for such a time as this, to tear his enemies a new one, etc. There are a FEW believers out there who see Biden as God-given, but they are in the minority. No contest. Not even close.
too much drama,
Odd name of seeming protest for someone who then brings more drama.
Michael and Dan have already answered your question of “Why”. You seemingly are quite familiar with my writing as you proclaim to know what I NEVER write about, thus you then must know everything I do write about to make such a proclamation. Therefore, your question of “Why” is quite disingenuous and only seeks to stir up dissension as I have many times explained the “Why” in my writings.
I’d also be interested in knowing what you think my “political agendas” are that I’m supposedly pushing, because I have a strong suspicion they are very unlike my actual “political agendas”.
Yes, if someone can link one group of Christians pushing Biden and making wild excuses for his shortcomings, I’m sure many here would be glad to speak against that.
Too much drama,
I did not say Kevin is using his christian perspective to push his political agenda. I accept that he is generally a conservative. I said his perspective is exactly the words a partisan would use. I said he is presenting a partisan case against DT. Some of his claims are, IMO wrong and some are definitely exaggerated. I said that hurts his case.
The overall mantra of excusing DT simply because he is only guilty of “mean tweets” is a good gimmick but a poor debate. It is overstatement.
This election is sadly coming down to which agenda is more destructive to our self-destructing nation? These two lead candidates are devils pure and simple. They are devils.
Many of DT supporters are doing so because of a system that has had one agenda since DT descended the escalator and that is to Get Trump. Many of DT’s supporters believe these efforts are destroying the nation turning us over to 1) the security state and its bourgeoning power 2) the corrupted courts and their finding crimes because they have found a criminal 3) the elite classes and their constant devotion to transferring wealth. I could go one but… DT is the foil of the true agenda to grab power.
Those who hate DT believe he is the one destroying the systems for the same reason.
Kevin H,
Again, respectfully …will you ‘suffer this fool’ to offer a contrasting perspective?
“I’m not sure what land you live in where you are seeing this,”… Actually, what I have been sensing here for some time, is a (by default) support of the opposing candidate by THIS local online faction of the church.
Sure, I’ll certainly not attempt arguing the point that the influence of the ‘PP blog online church faction’ is minuscule, by comparison to this country’s evangelical landscape.
However, I don’t reflexively accept that ‘scaling of church sentiment by numbers’ alone, rightly forms the critical distinctions you insist define the issue.
For example, when a groundswell support of ENOUGH ‘by default’ (never-Trumper) church factions multiply and coalesce …similar demographic numbers could (and may already) result.
Michael’s recent article that includes explanations for inaccurate perceptions in social media, of a much larger demographic than actually exists …is worth considering here.
If we all agree that the church shouldn’t be in the business of political endorsements …one must eventually recognize that tacit approval of ‘candidate Z’ is indirectly being promoted (by default) …when persistently ‘beating the drum’ about the evils of ‘candidate X’.
Is that not apparent?
Kevin
You are teaching people to hate Trump indirectly and pointing out their sin for supporting him. You do not do the same for the others I mentioned. And Michael, in all your arrogance, do you really have the audacity to say Christians aren’t supporting Biden and his Administration?
Kevin, this thread and your “conversations” are unbalanced and yes partisan. How? Because, in this you are essentially telling people who they should not vote for nor support. So what is the alternative?
Your time and efforts would be far better spent teaching or at least demonstrating how followers of Jesus and Christianity can apply their world views in a practical and yes political manner.
Everything else about your thread is just another social media rant and drama that contributes very little to bring peace to a world full of sin.
BTW, Kevin did you really think what you wrote wasn’t Drama!
I really appreciated Kevin’s post. Here’s why:
1. The evangelical church tolerates actions and statements from DT that should be intolerable from a Christian perspective-extra marital affairs, false and cruel statement about minorities and the disabled, misuse and theft of classified documents-and he is on trial for a lot of this stuff.
2. He has caused the Republican Party to obey at his beck and call. It is no longer an independent political party.
3. He has formed his own cult of personality that is actually idolatry. (Proof: T shirts that say “Jesus is my Savior and Trump is my president.”
4. 1/6/22-he stood by and let it happen, and DT still claims the election was stolen.
Dave,
No it is not apparent. Some may look at politics as purely a binary activity – if you are against candidate A, then you must be for candidate B, and vice versa. But for the Christian, this is a false dichotomy. God’s Kingdom, which is where our true political citizenship resides, transcends any earthly political frameworks, and frees the Christian from being constrained by them.
What you are “sensing” here as a default supportiveness of the “opposing candidate” is a mistaken assumption. If we wanted to show support to Joe Biden or someone else, then we would actually show him support, but you don’t ever see that here, do you?
All the more, your initial assertion that you’re “not seeing substantial difference in the faction of believers promoting the virtues of ‘the alternate candidate'”, frankly still stands as a ludicrous statement. Any measure – number of supporters, number of actions, intensity and frequency of actions, number of justifications of wrongdoings, etc. – of “promotion” by evangelicals or any sect of Christianity of Joe Biden or any other Democrat falls woefully short as to the measures of those Christians who support Trump. Any argument to say that Biden or some other Democrat receives nearly the same breadth, depth, quantity, and intensity of support from Christians as does Trump is intellectually dishonest and/or ignorant.
Linn
If you think my comments are about supporting Trump, then you are dead wrong. I have never once said such a thing.
Your comment clearly demonstrates where the emphasis is on of this thread, and it isn’t about teaching Christian ethics, or politics. It reminds me of when preachers would teach it is bad to see such and such a movie instead of teaching the whys of decision making about what movies to see and then letting the people choose for themselves.
I will answer this for you and the others, my dislike for Trump began decades before he became political. And I feel the same today about him.
How do I vote politically? As best I can, measured against how I understand and internalized the teachings of Jesus from the scriptures and comments others of have made about them.
“And Michael, in all your arrogance, do you really have the audacity to say Christians aren’t supporting Biden and his Administration?”
Yes, I plead guilty to the charge of arrogance.
I have yet to hear of churches having rallies to baptize Biden as Gods man for America… a Cyrus for our times.
If I do, I’ll tear them a new one too.
This is why I prefer the company of cats…
Kevin
You are either blinded by your prejudice or deceptively dishonest. Your statement is a distraction to your arguments in this thread.
“ Any argument to say that Biden or some other Democrat receives nearly the same breadth, depth, quantity, and intensity of support from Christians as does Trump is intellectually dishonest and/or ignorant.”
No Biden does not receive Evangelical support. But that statement of your does not balance nor shine new light on your thread.
“ If I do, I’ll tear them a new one too.”
I guess that is what this web site is really all about.
Yes drama at its best and even before Tiktoc was a spark in some developer’s mind.
May you find peace somewhere.
Kevin, as a political person speaking from a very different perspective than you, I appreciate the article. I do not hide the fact that I despise the American political structure, and I hate Capitalism. I am a Commie to the core. I know your political perspectives from years of reading you. We agree on just about nothing. But I love this article. Thank you.
Too much drama,
I have a big cat on my lap and couldn’t be anymore peaceful in this life.
What I do have is a passion for the integrity of the church…if that offends you, you’re in the wrong place.
too much drama,
So when God says in His Word that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as he would a woman, does this mean He is indirectly teaching people to hate those who are homosexual? Because that is the exact same logic you used for saying that I’m teaching people to hate Trump. And in this case, God even used far stronger language than I did in my article.
“Because, in this you are essentially telling people who they should not vote for nor support. So what is the alternative?”
First of all, I have never told anyone who they should not vote for (or vote for). Search this entire site, you will not find it. And I have never told anyone who they should not support, rather I speak against the sinful ways in which Christians show support and not that they can’t show support.
What is the alternative? – Read my reply to Dave – God’s Kingdom transcends any earthly political categories or frameworks. The alternative is for God’s people to do their best to follow God’s teachings and let that play out in whatever ways it does in making earthly political decisions.
Lastly, to make the charge that I am “blinded by my prejudice or deceptively dishonest” based on my response to Dave when he was drawing an equivalency between the support that Biden and Trump receive from Christians, is flat out asinine. Either you are not able to comprehend the context of the conversation or else you are just attempting to stir up shameful dissension.
Thank you, Linn.
As a side note…accusing Kevin of dishonesty will get you banned in a heartbeat…
And thank you, Reuben. Even as a center-right American political conservative as myself would indeed have little political agreement with a communist as yourself, I think there is a good bit we would agree on as to how people should conduct themselves ethically and honorably, whether in politics or the church or whatever arena of life.
Agreed.
too much drama,
By the way, you still have answered my question as to what you think my “political agendas” are that you accuse me of pushing.
Prominent Christian conservative leaders who have voiced very similar concerns about DT and the evangelical church – David French, Beth Moore, George Will ( Catholic), Mitt Romney (Morman), and many , many others. Many here act as though Keven has said something blasphemous. Perhaps some of these posters are ignorant, either willfully, or because the news outlets they watch make sure they never see the opposing viewpoints of these Christian conservative leaders.
Even Donald Trump’s former Vice President, Mike Pence, who is probably the most prominent Christian conservative leader we have hard in the last five years, says he cannot in good conscience endorse Donald Trump for President again. This is shocking in itself, and Mike Pence surely knows Donald Trump’s fitness to serve as President more than anyone else on earth. By the way, the last Republican I voted for was John McCaine.
Janet Linn,
I have found that many who are more than comfortable with decrying if not even strongly condemning the evils of Biden, Obama, Hillary, and the Democrats, often times not even condemning just their actions but also condemning them as evil people, find it scandalous and exceedingly offensive when even just a partial measure of the same standards and behaviors are applied to their favored politicians and especially applied to themselves.
Janet Linn,
Yup, I’ve made the Mike Pence argument before myself. In the last two elections, especially in 2016, Pence was held up as a big, if not even the main reason by many evangelicals as to why they were voting for Trump. Pence was boosted as the strong conservative Christian who would be there to guide and influence Trump and keep Trump from his worst tendencies. Now it’s arguable as to whether Pence actually accomplished any of that, but that is why many evangelicals said they could vote for Trump.
Now that Pence has said that Trump is unfit for office after having spent 4 years right next to him in the presidency, seemingly 99% of Trump-supporting evangelicals could care less. This speaks greatly to the credibility of these evangelicals’ genuineness and integrity.
As I often end my articles, “Partisan politics are poison to the soul”.
repost of March 29 … on the Living as Exiles thread…
“I came to know a good bit about Mike Pence. Yes I know the mob called for his neck. We are supposed to offer our necks to the mob. I was in a small group of men and one of ours was the father of a Pence speechwriter. So Pence came up often. My admiration for him rose. So there he was and is an uncelebrated but heroic figure.
The real essence of the seven mountain strategy is just that. To have a Joseph, and Esther, a Daniel at the right place at the right time. One to prevent tyranny and save others at the cost of themselves. That is the ironic hinge of the matter. Much is owed to Mike Pence.
Mobs are the rabble of history and people can find themselves in a mob or compromised by the mob. Good Friday is a reminder of just that.”
Good words there again, Alan.
While it’s certainly debatable as to what good Pence accomplished for the four years before that, he did come through when the pressure was greatest and he was most needed on that day, January 6th.
It is unconscionable that now nearly all Trump supporting Christians at best care nothing about what Pence has to say about Trump, or at worst see him as a traitor and enemy, one even worthy of being hung.
Pence will not endorse DT but he will not vote for Biden.
Banned, is that all you know how to Michael when someone strongly disagrees with you or provides a different opinion.
Kevin
“ By the way, you still have answered my question as to what you think my “political agendas” are that you accuse me of pushing”
Answered this already, but I will make it simple, you dislike and maybe even hate Trump, you believe those who support Trump and disagree with you are sining and ignoring the Christian truths, you side with those who rage and call them “Christian Nationalist,” and yet you provide no teaching.
Essentially, without stating it directly, you are telling Christians not vote for Trump.
Yes it’s a not so hidden agenda and frankly not healthy for Christian debate.
Your thread would do better and provide you with real inputs other beyond the “choir” by posting it on more public social media. You could do one of the common videos where people sit in their cars and post their thoughts for the whole world to see and digest.
Moving on and ban away, it’s what you do Michael.
Too much
You are overreacting … asking that you avoid personal attacks is not a high bar.
Too much drama,
I have no problem with strong disagreement, I have big problems with false accusations.
I haven’t banned anyone in ages, but I think you’d wear it as a badge of honor.
You’ll be able to wear it if you do it again.
“you provide no teaching.”
We’ve presented multiple biblical arguments for years on this matter…
Oh…and as I’ve also said literally thousands of times…don’t bother telling me what to publish…I think long and hard about that already.
I have no desire to deal with MAGA folks anymore than I already have to.
As to”preaching to the choir”…it’s more about strengthening the remnant as there is much vocal support for Trump from the Christian community.
Some of us don’t think in binary form…not voting for Trump doesn’t mean voting for Biden…it may mean not voting at all.
I’m neck deep in actually studying scripture at the moment, so I shouldn’t start this…but I don’t expect either candidate to address matters I think the church is responsible for, meaning morality.
How the hell people expect a grossly immoral man to stand for any sort of moral progress is beyond me.
I’m as sick of the LGBTQ/ transgender mess as anyone here…but the battle has to be for the minds and souls of those that now affirm this behavior…which is more than half the country.
TMD,
There have been MANY people here of various political leanings. People don’t get banned for differing views. I should know as I have been here for probably going on 8-10 years now. As for hating Trump…do you hate Obama? Hillary Clinton? Biden? What about AOC?
If there was anyone to ban for political purposes, the Manifesto preaching Communist should probably be the first to go! Haha!
For the record, I don’t vote for Capitalists. Biden is a Capitalist.
Michael
“ I’m as sick of the LGBTQ/ transgender mess as anyone here…but the battle has to be for the minds and souls of those that now affirm this behavior…which is more than half the country.”
Then stop preaching about personalities and start teaching principles. If you want to teach about what a cult is then describe it and let people decide for themselves. If you want to reveal the error in LGBTQ… then teach about humanity, natural biology and human nature to follow the latest trends.
And yes I strongly believe Kevin is not being honest with either himself or others on this subject. If he was it would not be about Trump, it would be about identifying destructive trends and behaviors within ourselves.
It’s easy to Jesus is the answer! But really difficult remember what he taught and what questions he answers.
Follow Him and then do.
TMD, how long have you read this blog?
2004 for me what about you Reuben?
I dunno, since I was a Calvary guy and the whole SMP thing. About 15 years maybe.
TMD,
Here’s my suggestion.
Put together the time and money and start your own site.
Take “too much drama with you” and you too can write about whatever you want whenever you want.
I have written lot about all the things you too are talking about….but you evidently only read the stuff about Trump.
If I need any advice from either of you, I’ll ask.
It’s Dread’s 20 year anniversary…
Too Much Drama,
So now that you have stated your accusations of what you believe my political agenda to be, let me clear things up for you one last time, things that I have consistently stated many times before in my writings and if you know my writings as well as you claim to, then these things should have been obvious.
Here is my whole list of items which makes up my political agenda:
1. Exhort and encourage Christians to participate in the political arena by looking at everything through a lens of God’s Kingdom and God’s teachings and precepts.
2. Being that my tribe of theologically conservative evangelical Christians have increasingly struggled with executing agenda item #1 and have in many ways sinned in their political participation (however, not by who they vote for or support as you accuse me as calling these things sin, but rather in many of the ways in which they act out their support and attempt to achieve their own political agendas), to then follow and apply God’s teachings that we are to be far more concerned with unrepentant, destructive sin that is occurring in the church than with outsiders, and to expose it.
That’s it. Just those two items.
I now ask you to recant your accusations of me which cannot be supported with any evidence from the entirety of my writings here.
TMD is adopting the now familiar Trump defense mechanism that goes like this…
“Trump? No, I’ve never liked him and didn’t vote for him in 2016 or 2020. In fact I wrote in , and I won’t be voting for him in 2024. But, how can you criticize him—look over there at all the , why aren’t you calling out?
Kevin’s answered the why several times. I’m a Christian, and evangelical, and politically conservative. In short, the Trump delusion by many, many, too many evangelical Christians has effectively ruined their witness to unbelievers. God doesn’t need us but I believe he works through his people to bring others to him. We’ve lost our way.
Kevin H, Michael,
I don’t question the sincerity and passion of either of you pertaining to this blog’s long standing mission to call out unhealthy trends and pastoral abuses within the church.
Whatever means of communicating those concerns are strictly within your rightful purview, and ultimately folks here can ‘vote with their feet’ and permanently disengage if the tone becomes intolerable to conscience.
I recall an extraordinary amount of grace and long suffering patience being extended by Michael, to one particular man (possibly, Alex?), whom appeared under a few aliases here …and inspired a great deal of disharmony, prior to a necessary expulsion to maintain the peace.
That said, since that era 5 or more years ago … wow! the long list of diverse user names impossible for me to have become familiar with, has massively shrunken to what seems, less than 20, that regularly appear, whom I can easily now recognize.
Michael has made numerous references to ‘former friends, acquaintances and brethren’ with whom he eventually came into sharp disagreement over certain divisive topics, and the subsequent ‘unfriending’ that followed.
People can view and justify the ‘diaspora’ a few ways:
‘We are the true and faithful remnant’ …they went out from us, because they never were (in reality…) among us.
Mark Driscoll-style: ‘Cool! I thinned the herd! The ‘blessed subtraction’ got run over by the Mars Hill bus’. Lord willing, they’re be a huge pile of bodies left beneath THIS bus! Heh-heh!
Poignant reflection & introspection: ‘Maybe I could have handled things differently…’
Life goes on, regardless of which direction and with which ‘editorial tone’ you guys choose to address church-related issues, and subsequently interact with the continuously declining population of participants and loss of influence.
Long time posters here, could easily be forgiven, for interpreting a shift occurring in mission purpose: Circumstances would indicate that a unified vision and concerted effort has emerged, to gradually and discretely, bring this blog to a close, and sign-off of the web.
Considering that the resulting population implosion (regardless of intentions) is palpable and undeniable. Google’s ‘way back machine’ (internet archive) might soon be the only means of documenting this site’s existence.
All good things must come to an end, and the Phoenix Preacher online community, is no exception to the rule. Yesterday, I spent some time deleting dead links to defunct web pages, duplicate bookmarks and sites that became overwhelmed with adverts or pop-ups, or no longer held my interest.
The reference to Alex brings back memories. His father harassed me, called me once asking about my involvement here and things I wrote about him. Ahhh the good old days…
Reuben,
Yeah, it’s been long enough since watching the docu-drama featuring the Grenier brothers, before the lawsuit (and the strange revelations surrounding it) had ended …that I was no longer sure of his first name, or the various aliases used here.
In similar fashion to our distant memory of ‘Alex’, those of us whom have long been following the content here, will eventually be saying; “What was the name of that blog that had originally exposed CC abuses?”
Dave,
Let’s boil down your lengthy diatribe to what you’re actually saying.
The threat is that if I keep publishing articles decrying the political idolatry of evangelicalism, then everyone will leave and the blog will shut down.
This was the same threat that pastors used to make when I was exposing corruption.
This time, I think the threat is real.
I don’t care.
I started this mess because I thought that something precious was being destroyed by bad actors.
What I didn’t understand until about 10 years ago was how much evangelicals love authoritarian bad actors.
Trump and his ilk are just evangelicalism in full flower and the price we’re paying as a church in cultural influence and moral authority is staggering.
If Trump loses the election, he could become a university president in the SBC…
I digress…
I’m still waiting for the biblical, new covenant case for choosing a reprobate as your champion…makes sense if you’re trying to win an election, but not if you’re trying to win the world.
So…you might be right and we won’t be around long…but I’ll be able to lay my old head down in peace because I tried to do what was right.
People like you were always just along for the ride…I’m the one who paid for the trip.
You did inspire me to go look at the numbers.
We’ve lost about half our readers in the last 10 years from the previous ten…the decline started in 2014 when I wrote a border article that pissed everyone off.
Last week we were up by about 25% over the norm.
We might be growing…again.
I think you should call for a boycott.
Michael,
I always find it interesting when people want to define what your blog is about and whether or not you should continue writing. You’re much nicer than I would be!
Linn,
It’s been this way for 20 some years…I try to keep my profanities that follow off the site. 🙂
Just some info for those who are interested in how these sites work.
Blogging ain’t what it used to be…
Yes, we used to have threads where there were up to 1000 comments.
Those days are long gone, not just here, but everywhere.
It’s not safe to speak online…and many sites have completely shut down their comment sections.
Social media used to drive a lot of traffic here…the changing algorithms of Facebook and Twitter has turned that flood into a trickle.
Written content doesn’t move the needle…visual content does, but I’m not putting myself on video for all to behold.
You should thank me for that.
Content, new content is demanded daily and sometimes multiple times a day to keep up.
I don’t have the time or physical capacity for that.
In the salad days sites shared links all the time…very few sites do that anymore.
What I have settled into is about being a space for some sort of community and a different take on a bunch of stuff.
We’ve got a core of about 800 people…the other numbers go up and down depending on what’s being written.
If I write about some scandal we do thousands of people a day instantly…but the scandal we’re covering these days isn’t the one the base wants…
I’ll stick around. This blog has been instrumental in my life. I came here bashing your Calvinism, Michael. Now look at me! Haha!
Reuben,
Thanks, my friend…I’ll be here until I can’t be here.
Life is challenging, as you well know…
In other news…
https://www.aol.com/news/marjorie-taylor-greene-responds-backlash-173443909.html
I thought we could all use a laugh after all that serious discussion!
Linn, it’s both amusing and sad. Whenever she speaks, I picture myself wrapping heavy-duty duct tape around her head to cover her mouth.
Captain Kevin,
I agree…she is scary, but (in my opinion) in a ridiculous sort of way. I really think the people of Georgia deserve better, but they voted for her!