Out of curiosity, I watched Jordan Peterson’s recent interview of Greg Laurie. When it comes down to the essence of Christianity, Jordan is pretty clueless. Greg did a decent job laying out some simple aspects of the Gospel, but it seemed to send JP on tangents and down rabbit holes. Made me think of when Nicodemus first talked with Jesus.
The link is a review on Peterson’s most recent book and his beliefs. I left with interesting, but he has nothing to say about my faith except that he denies it.
Thanks for the link to the piece about Peterson. I have a son in his early 30s who’s a Xn and has also been influenced by his writings. I was pretty fuzzy about him, especially about his views on Christ and the Church. This was really helpful!
Greg will always be Greg, but I had to give him credit for wading through all of Jordan’s wild
perspectives and theories on the Bible. Greg kept it simple and on Jesus.
Is there a kind of alt-right philosophical Christianity forming between Jordan Peterson, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Russell Brand and other alt-right figures? (I apologize for making this political.) I listened to a long interview with Thiel about Jesus, and its obvious he doesn’t know scripture at all and kept referencing Greek mythology to fill in the gaps. This would not matter to me, except for Christian men I know personally who are drawn to anyone on the alt-right who claim some connection to Christ. Laurie’s platforming Peterson looks like he understands this demographic, but does he even remotely challenge it when its outside orthodoxy?
Peterson has been platformed by a lot of Christians. Everyone wants a crack at him and claim him as “their” convert. Jonathan Pageau, who I love dearly, had a conference this year and Peterson was a speaker. He showed up in a costume consisting of pictures of Orthodox icons which got some people fooled into thinking he was going to convert to EO but most of us were horrified that he was using sacred art as a costume. We think he just didn’t know any better? We are always hopeful? He seems to be deteriorating, IMO.
Elon Musk is not a Christian and is a champion of Artificial Intelligence and transhumanism. He is a dangerous person, IMO. He checks the right boxes on some issues, fooling right-leaning people to think he’s an ally. I hope he does not buy MSNBC, which I loathe, but he’s already too powerful as it is. I noticed he was sitting at Trump’s right hand (symbolic) during the Mar-A-Lago Thanksgiving dinner.
Russell Brand has been a Christian for what, six months? He needs to be quiet until he gains some maturity. Many were dismayed that he posted a photo of himself baptizing somebody while in his underwear. He needs to be under the authority of a spiritual father.
I don’t know anything about Peter Theil.
Of these three I mentioned, 2 aren’t Christians and one is a very young immature Christian. Elon Musk is the only one I really worry about.
Xenia – over the past couple of years, Musk has claimed to be culturally Christian. It feels like just throwing a bone to the religious right, his new allies. Peter Thiel concerns me as much as Musk because keeps a lower profile but influences the influencers.
Thiel described Jesus as a retelling of Dionysius (son of Zeus) and Cain and Abel as a retelling of Romulus and Remus. I doubt Greg Laurie will platform him, mainly because he’s gay.
Tullian Tchividjian recently brought Russell Brand for an interview. Yikes. These people seem to find each other. I’m over the age of the influencer, as most of these people take themselves way too seriously.
Wanted to wish everyone who pops on this thread a very happy, belated, Thanksgiving and a very Merry Christmas should I not think of anything to say between now and then !! One can always pray 😂
I can’t help but think of The DailyWire, which was at one point a main conduit for these folk who seem to grift, is quickly becoming the retirement home of almost-was’s and sorta-beens, kinda like the San Diego Padres and, back in my day, the San Diego Chargers. Like Xenia or someone said, it and other networks like it who host these folk, are a small circle of folks who constantly interview each other and claim a nominal, cultural, and/or interfaith Christianity.
I have not read much of anything by Jordan Peterson but if Christians want to read something by someone with a post-Barthian theological approach and some knowledge of Jungian practice they “could” be reading Esther Acolatse instead and she’s a Presbyterian with Pentecostal sympathies (which is fine by me since I”ve been a Presbyterian with a continuationist bent (GOrdon Fee fan here) for years).
Peterson has never struck me as actually a believer but he scratches the itch of simple scripts of male adulthood of the kind that guys like Driscoll and Wilson have been selling over the decades. Peterson might not be as bad as those two other guys but … I have not managed to see the appeal, or I see it but it sounds like it’s for stuff that doesn’t particularly interest me.
I’ve been thinking about how I had Lindsey in my upbringing and how being Rapture Ready had me dubious that there was any point in dating or marrying because if Jesus really COULD come back as soon as next year or this year and nobody would be married in the age to come then what would be the point of dating? What would be the good in having kids of the Tribulation came? Who would have kids in such a setting? By the time I was 18 and learned of alternate eschatologies (from an AoG youth pastor no less!) I settled on amillennial partial preterism and bailed on futurist dispenstaionalism.
But that left a whole life to live without a clear sense of what I could do with it. That would’ve been a time for a Peterson book, I suppose, but what I ended up finding was the early Mars Hill. After a short adolescent life steeped in Hal Lindsey style eschatology the earlier Mars Hill did seem like an actual alternative where Christians explored what having a normal life that would elapse before Jesus came back could actually look like. It mutated into a personality cult between 2000 and 2007, though.
John Neville Figgis wrote in his treatise on Divine Right of Kings that no idea in the history of political theory has been more dunked on with ease but that the historian’s task is to try to understand how on earth such an idea got developed and, just as crucially, what alternative theories of sovereignty were on the table against which divine right of kings prevailed. Figgis’ thesis was that DRoK was developed as an alternative to counter-Reformation eras doctrines of papal supremacy and that it was not a medieval but a sixteenth century innovation. We can think of it as a stupid idea in the 20th century but for most of history most smart people would have considered governance by plebiscite to be the most idiotic way on earth to set up a stable government.
I “was” using that as an example of how the early Mars Hill seemed like it was a better option than being stuck dragged to house churches in Oregon with old guys blathering on about U.N. helicopters and the new world order … but the Figgis observation could also be a reminder this election year that the idea that the governed even ought to have any input into governance is a relatively recent innovation in the history of European political theory. One of my Kenyan friends wrote in a book that he found it curious that Europeans who took a thousand years to develop representative democratic republics seem to think Africans should have just gotten with the program in a mere fifty years.
I had a fun Thanksgiving hanging out with friends. Hope everyone else had a good Thanksgiving.
Peterson’s lectures from before he became a celebrity can sometimes prove valuable. They are much more in line with some of the counseling I do, which finds its roots in Genesis Process. He wasn’t providing random content; he was actually trying to teach and help university students.
Pineapple Head, I’ve heard and read people say that Peterson had some actually good stuff to say before he became a celebrity. I’m trying not to rule out reading some of his pre-famous work at some point. I heard Maps of Meaning had some decent stuff in it.
WTH, I’m right there with you in any critique that is deserving. As Michael noted earlier, once someone becomes an influencer, they need content to keep going. Peterson is now ubiquitous across social media. He’s talking about everything as if everyone needs to hear his opinions.
Can’t help feeling that most of the anti-Peterson sentiment is rooted in his endless critique of the progressive left. Whatever!
He’s a champion of free speech. That’s core for me as a human. His equivocations about confessional Christianity would be more troubling if his depictions of Christ were less compelling.
What he is doing for men culturally is enough for me to keep cheering him on. I have plenty of theological and confessional believers to bolster and undergird me. He who is not against us is for us.
It is interesting to see universalists quibble over his tenuous status in Christ, but I do get it. I don’t need a lesson on why that works just me being contrary. He certainly is a huge advocate of not dismantling the Judeo- Christian moorings of our culture.
There is a political realigning in America that has next to nothing to do with evangelicalism but much to do with the aforementioned Judeo-Christian worldview and its enlightenment marriage with our founders.
It’s hopeful, but this too shall pass and we will see where we are next.
I don’t know of any advocates here of the progressive left.
I’ve never listened to one of his lectures in its entirety…never found him compelling enough for the time invested.
As the resident hopeful universalist, I don’t think I’ve ever said anything about his eternal destiny.
It’s all yours today…
I got to spend Thanksgiving with my son. If only I could describe what that meant…
Reuben,
I was praying that would go well…
Out of curiosity, I watched Jordan Peterson’s recent interview of Greg Laurie. When it comes down to the essence of Christianity, Jordan is pretty clueless. Greg did a decent job laying out some simple aspects of the Gospel, but it seemed to send JP on tangents and down rabbit holes. Made me think of when Nicodemus first talked with Jesus.
Pineapple Head,
I have never understood the fascination many Christians, including some in my church, have with Jordan. He has some interesting ideas, but he is not a Christian.
https://religionunplugged.com/news/2024/11/20/book-review-jordan-peterson-fails-to-wrestle-with-god-enough?format=amp
The link is a review on Peterson’s most recent book and his beliefs. I left with interesting, but he has nothing to say about my faith except that he denies it.
Reuben,
So glad to hear of a good visit with your son!
Linn,
Thanks for the link to the piece about Peterson. I have a son in his early 30s who’s a Xn and has also been influenced by his writings. I was pretty fuzzy about him, especially about his views on Christ and the Church. This was really helpful!
Laurie and Peterson may be the most overrated names in their respective fields…wouldn’t walk across the street to hear either.
Greg will always be Greg, but I had to give him credit for wading through all of Jordan’s wild
perspectives and theories on the Bible. Greg kept it simple and on Jesus.
Is there a kind of alt-right philosophical Christianity forming between Jordan Peterson, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Russell Brand and other alt-right figures? (I apologize for making this political.) I listened to a long interview with Thiel about Jesus, and its obvious he doesn’t know scripture at all and kept referencing Greek mythology to fill in the gaps. This would not matter to me, except for Christian men I know personally who are drawn to anyone on the alt-right who claim some connection to Christ. Laurie’s platforming Peterson looks like he understands this demographic, but does he even remotely challenge it when its outside orthodoxy?
Peterson has been platformed by a lot of Christians. Everyone wants a crack at him and claim him as “their” convert. Jonathan Pageau, who I love dearly, had a conference this year and Peterson was a speaker. He showed up in a costume consisting of pictures of Orthodox icons which got some people fooled into thinking he was going to convert to EO but most of us were horrified that he was using sacred art as a costume. We think he just didn’t know any better? We are always hopeful? He seems to be deteriorating, IMO.
Elon Musk is not a Christian and is a champion of Artificial Intelligence and transhumanism. He is a dangerous person, IMO. He checks the right boxes on some issues, fooling right-leaning people to think he’s an ally. I hope he does not buy MSNBC, which I loathe, but he’s already too powerful as it is. I noticed he was sitting at Trump’s right hand (symbolic) during the Mar-A-Lago Thanksgiving dinner.
Russell Brand has been a Christian for what, six months? He needs to be quiet until he gains some maturity. Many were dismayed that he posted a photo of himself baptizing somebody while in his underwear. He needs to be under the authority of a spiritual father.
I don’t know anything about Peter Theil.
Of these three I mentioned, 2 aren’t Christians and one is a very young immature Christian. Elon Musk is the only one I really worry about.
Terry,
The ones on social media, like Laurie, need daily content if they’re going to keep the cash flowing.
There does seem to be a loosely knit contingent of alt right people who are constantly interviewing each other.
At some point the masses will understand that they sold their souls to men who don’t have one of their own…
Xenia – over the past couple of years, Musk has claimed to be culturally Christian. It feels like just throwing a bone to the religious right, his new allies. Peter Thiel concerns me as much as Musk because keeps a lower profile but influences the influencers.
Thiel described Jesus as a retelling of Dionysius (son of Zeus) and Cain and Abel as a retelling of Romulus and Remus. I doubt Greg Laurie will platform him, mainly because he’s gay.
Tullian Tchividjian recently brought Russell Brand for an interview. Yikes. These people seem to find each other. I’m over the age of the influencer, as most of these people take themselves way too seriously.
Wanted to wish everyone who pops on this thread a very happy, belated, Thanksgiving and a very Merry Christmas should I not think of anything to say between now and then !! One can always pray 😂
I can’t help but think of The DailyWire, which was at one point a main conduit for these folk who seem to grift, is quickly becoming the retirement home of almost-was’s and sorta-beens, kinda like the San Diego Padres and, back in my day, the San Diego Chargers. Like Xenia or someone said, it and other networks like it who host these folk, are a small circle of folks who constantly interview each other and claim a nominal, cultural, and/or interfaith Christianity.
Jerod,
A blessed holiday season to you as well…
I have not read much of anything by Jordan Peterson but if Christians want to read something by someone with a post-Barthian theological approach and some knowledge of Jungian practice they “could” be reading Esther Acolatse instead and she’s a Presbyterian with Pentecostal sympathies (which is fine by me since I”ve been a Presbyterian with a continuationist bent (GOrdon Fee fan here) for years).
Peterson has never struck me as actually a believer but he scratches the itch of simple scripts of male adulthood of the kind that guys like Driscoll and Wilson have been selling over the decades. Peterson might not be as bad as those two other guys but … I have not managed to see the appeal, or I see it but it sounds like it’s for stuff that doesn’t particularly interest me.
I’ve been thinking about how I had Lindsey in my upbringing and how being Rapture Ready had me dubious that there was any point in dating or marrying because if Jesus really COULD come back as soon as next year or this year and nobody would be married in the age to come then what would be the point of dating? What would be the good in having kids of the Tribulation came? Who would have kids in such a setting? By the time I was 18 and learned of alternate eschatologies (from an AoG youth pastor no less!) I settled on amillennial partial preterism and bailed on futurist dispenstaionalism.
But that left a whole life to live without a clear sense of what I could do with it. That would’ve been a time for a Peterson book, I suppose, but what I ended up finding was the early Mars Hill. After a short adolescent life steeped in Hal Lindsey style eschatology the earlier Mars Hill did seem like an actual alternative where Christians explored what having a normal life that would elapse before Jesus came back could actually look like. It mutated into a personality cult between 2000 and 2007, though.
John Neville Figgis wrote in his treatise on Divine Right of Kings that no idea in the history of political theory has been more dunked on with ease but that the historian’s task is to try to understand how on earth such an idea got developed and, just as crucially, what alternative theories of sovereignty were on the table against which divine right of kings prevailed. Figgis’ thesis was that DRoK was developed as an alternative to counter-Reformation eras doctrines of papal supremacy and that it was not a medieval but a sixteenth century innovation. We can think of it as a stupid idea in the 20th century but for most of history most smart people would have considered governance by plebiscite to be the most idiotic way on earth to set up a stable government.
I “was” using that as an example of how the early Mars Hill seemed like it was a better option than being stuck dragged to house churches in Oregon with old guys blathering on about U.N. helicopters and the new world order … but the Figgis observation could also be a reminder this election year that the idea that the governed even ought to have any input into governance is a relatively recent innovation in the history of European political theory. One of my Kenyan friends wrote in a book that he found it curious that Europeans who took a thousand years to develop representative democratic republics seem to think Africans should have just gotten with the program in a mere fifty years.
I had a fun Thanksgiving hanging out with friends. Hope everyone else had a good Thanksgiving.
Peterson’s lectures from before he became a celebrity can sometimes prove valuable. They are much more in line with some of the counseling I do, which finds its roots in Genesis Process. He wasn’t providing random content; he was actually trying to teach and help university students.
Pineapple Head, I’ve heard and read people say that Peterson had some actually good stuff to say before he became a celebrity. I’m trying not to rule out reading some of his pre-famous work at some point. I heard Maps of Meaning had some decent stuff in it.
WTH, I’m right there with you in any critique that is deserving. As Michael noted earlier, once someone becomes an influencer, they need content to keep going. Peterson is now ubiquitous across social media. He’s talking about everything as if everyone needs to hear his opinions.
Can’t help feeling that most of the anti-Peterson sentiment is rooted in his endless critique of the progressive left. Whatever!
He’s a champion of free speech. That’s core for me as a human. His equivocations about confessional Christianity would be more troubling if his depictions of Christ were less compelling.
What he is doing for men culturally is enough for me to keep cheering him on. I have plenty of theological and confessional believers to bolster and undergird me. He who is not against us is for us.
It is interesting to see universalists quibble over his tenuous status in Christ, but I do get it. I don’t need a lesson on why that works just me being contrary. He certainly is a huge advocate of not dismantling the Judeo- Christian moorings of our culture.
There is a political realigning in America that has next to nothing to do with evangelicalism but much to do with the aforementioned Judeo-Christian worldview and its enlightenment marriage with our founders.
It’s hopeful, but this too shall pass and we will see where we are next.
Alan,
I don’t know of any advocates here of the progressive left.
I’ve never listened to one of his lectures in its entirety…never found him compelling enough for the time invested.
As the resident hopeful universalist, I don’t think I’ve ever said anything about his eternal destiny.