Open Blogging

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126 Responses

  1. Good morning Open Bloggers! 🙂
    It’s a great day – I am at work making time and a half
    46 yrs of working and these last 10 months have been the first job that I have not been straight salary and get paid for the extra work.

  2. PP Vet says:

    Looks like it’s just you and me left now, MLD. Mano a mano, Todd Bentley vs. Martin Luther.

    But you have certainly done what my mother always encouraged us to do whenever we left: “Write if you find work.”

  3. Linnea says:

    I haven’t poked my head in for awhile, but I agree with Michael…it ain’t community without Xenia and Em…

  4. Hi Linnea – stop by more often 🙂

  5. Nonnie says:

    Amen! The Lord has used Xenia and Em to teach us, encourage us, and edify us greatly over the years.
    However, I believe also that Xenia and Em are so filled with God’s grace that they can understand where all the “harshness and attacks” came from. Many of the people who posted here from that other site are young and wounded. As mature women and mothers, I am guess that Xenia and Em have experienced enough in life to be able to be gracious and forgiving to young and restless folks out there.

  6. Xenia will return.
    Em will return.

    “I don’t always return,
    but when I do it’s with the realization that
    I wasn’t the center of the universe
    after all.

    Stay thirsty, my friends.”

  7. PP Vet – it’s because we are like 2 peas in a pod – brothers from a different mother etc. 🙂

  8. Tim says:

    I hope neither Xenia nor EM have left, or at the very least it is a temporary departure. God bless them both as they seek the Lord.

  9. Alex says:

    G, LOL.

    Hey, even I returned 😉

    Here’s to hoping X and Em (XM? 🙂 come back soon.

    …now if MLD wants to leave, LOL…don’t let the cyber-door hit ya where the good Lord split ya 😆

  10. Alex says:

    MLD said, “46 yrs of working and these last 10 months have been the first job that I have not been straight salary and get paid for the extra work.”

    Good to know you’re getting paid time-and-a-half to blog, good stewardship 😉

    …when I blog, it’s on my dime and my time, not stealing from my employer

  11. Alex says:

    c’mon mods LOL, you’ve let a lot worse slide, that was funny (and true)

  12. Jtk says:

    Reading “Church History in Plain Language” by Bruce L. Shelley this morning.

    The first century church went through some amazing stuff–the national leaders they had were light years worse than our potential 2012 electees. The martyrdom of so many, like Polycarp (“bring on the beasts”) is so inspiring, and showed me how much we have to be thankful for. And how little “being a witness” costs most of us in comparison.

  13. Michael says:

    Alex, that’s enough.

  14. I think Alex was just ribbing me – he had a smile.

  15. Babylon's Dread says:

    SERIOUSLY? EM and XENIA left the room?

    Find the idiots who were rude to them and tie them to a rail…

    Rude to great ladies? What happened nobody defended them? SHEESH…

  16. London says:

    Sthat the heck happened?

  17. Reuben says:

    ” i’m gone because Reuben ”

    there ya have it

    SCCL will forget about PhxP. All will be fine in no time. Xenia and Em will return. Since I love this community, and I have had a chance to sleep on it, and I still want to expand people’s views, and people don’t want to have their views expanded, I resign.

    You, as a community, need to flourish in whatever direction is natural.

    I need to work, pay bills. Ministry is done. Unity is fiction. People just want to fight, malign, berate, and call it anything but what it is. I am done fighting. I am done bridge building. I single handedly orchestrated an event that sent two people out of this community, I have stacks of demands from people telling me to apologize for the fight, and for my apology. It’s over.

    Now pick it apart, and burn me to the ground, MLD/Josh.

  18. Nonnie says:

    I was travelling and in the air during, what I guess was, a lot of mud slinging on another link. I am too tired and jet lagged to read through 400 posts, but I am also guessing that, like we have experienced in the past, wounded people attacked and wounded other people.

    I do so hope that sweet Xenia and Em will be returning here. They have enriched our lives and are dearly loved here. I know I learn so much from both of them.

  19. Alex says:

    I thought I was the problem? I guess it was Reuben after all! 😉 🙂

  20. Another Voice says:

    Rude to great ladies? What happened nobody defended them? SHEESH
    You bet someone defended them. Three different posts. One simple but direct, one subtle, the final one ballistic.

    But the evangelical pastor ain’t a mod…

  21. Babylon's Dread says:

    Well I missed the food fight….

    Always enjoyed them … for a while… then I got too busy…

    Reuben … what the heck… I don’t know what happened and ain’t gonna read a bunch of posts to find out… time thing… but since it was a FAMILY food fight… I say we forgive and eat a meal together just like real families have to do.

    But if some interloper comes in here beating up on the regs…. even if it is a dispensational reg … or even Alex… (wait nobody would get the best of Alex) anyway if that were the case then we gotta get the Yellow Truck and run over them

    But since it is family … then let’s save the food and eat.

  22. Another Voice says:

    Dread thinks like a shepherd…acts like one too.

  23. I wasn’t around, so don’t know what happened. I just pray for reconciliation.

  24. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    Xenia and Em are gone? That’s too bad. I hope they come back.

  25. Reuben,
    “Now pick it apart, and burn me to the ground, MLD/Josh.”

    I never said a word against you or what you did. I even sent you a private FB message trying to prop you up.

  26. Reuben,
    PhxP has a history of individuals who get upset for whatever reason, declare they are done, then return. I can only speak for myself that it happened when I took myself too seriously.

    “Ministry” is gritty, messy, draining, and a christianeze term for the complexity of the servanthood dynamic within the affirs of human relations. It’s a job, plain and simple, and sometimes the people we serve are impossibly complex and difficult.

    “Unity” is momentary, sportic, and transitory.

    Breathe, relax, you’re doing a great job. Glad that new folks have visited, posted, it keeps this place from becoming insular.

  27. london says:

    I read through that thread and didn’t see anything where you had done anything wrong. You are not responsible for what other people say.
    That blog is made up of folks who like to mock and dismiss people. It’s part of their corporate DNA apparently.
    They don’t seem to have enough experience yet to have insight into how they act in ways that are just like the people they choose to dismiss. They find it amusing in some sort of way that “young folks” do until they learn respect.

    It’s all good…Em and Xenia will be back.

  28. london says:

    forgot ambout that stupid email rule…

  29. I think that if a person cannot withstand criticism of their position they need to find a better way to articulate it with whomever is objecting while really listening to that other person, and engaging them, dialoging, asking probing questions to get at the heart of why there is such a different perspective.

  30. Okay everyone, i appreciate what’s said here … no one chased me off or offended me either – Rueben and BrianD have put a great deal of their hearts and souls into the PhxP, they’ve got something going here now with wounded and some IMV brainwashed folks – it’s good and should continue … will i be back? will Xenia? … if God wills it so …

  31. Nonnie says:

    Love you, Em!!! Xenia too!

  32. Ixtlan says:

    Just in for a quick look.

    Alex’s #10. Sorry Michael, I thought it was funny, so very mld of him.

    Have a beer and relax. This is so not the end of the world…. not even an amillenial one.

    I’m having a great weekend. Would love to tell ya about it, but…….. I gotta get to work…..

  33. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    So I’m not the only amillenial here? That’s handy. 🙂

  34. Kate says:

    I don’t know who Xenia and Em are, but I really like their names. So, they should come back.

  35. I am amil because Jesus was amil!! 😉

  36. Babylon's Dread says:

    I am with MLD… on that

  37. Scott says:

    This is a very disconcerting story about what is happening in some the boroughs of New York City.

  38. Checking in on that amil checklist

  39. London says:

    Hey Kate!

  40. Em says:

    G, @26 ONE LAST TIME – i’m not upset … well, i’m getting upset now 🙄

    there is a lot that can be accomplished on a thread such as the “Perspectives…”

    … i’m trying to stay off this blog site because:
    1- i’ve been avoiding work that i need to wrap up and i have a brain that rebels when it’s called on to do things it don’ wanna do
    2- the only thing my leaving has in common with Xenia’s action is timing
    3- there is dialog that should go on here now on the PhxP a – dialog that shouldn’t be sidetracked chasing what they assume is the resident church lady – that’s enough to get me off the dime and on to other things

    Kate, i’m a now 76 year old who wandered in here by mistake some years back – got reamed good by Michael (off-line) when i Emailed him to point out that i thought one of the subjects here that was nearest and dearest to his heart was being expressed in a way that gave the wrong impression to people … like me
    his response made me stick around 🙂

    FWIW (i’ll see if i can upset G) from over here in the corner in my rocking chair, i have watched folk come to terms with life and grow and bloom in Christ here … G included … that is what i get out of this site – i don’t do it, but i get to see it and it has given me great satisfaction

  41. I will apologize in advance for this being a post on politics, but I found this article to be fascinating.

    This part in particular was familiar to me when observing my conservative friends on Facebook:
    But for the time being, I am concerned about other things besides electing the Director in charge of dismantling an empire. First of all, why are Christians so fearful and so faithless? They take their positions out of fear — fear of Obama, not fear of God. Their rhetoric is so filled with the “Fear of Obama” one would think that the beginning of wisdom in this election is the fear of Obama.

  42. Em,
    Stepping away is great, especially when it’s for reasons other than anger.
    I can totally relate, and wish ya well.

    I occasionally pop in here but of late I have taken to sketching on my iPad and am exploring and rediscovering music production. Instead of selling the gear, I’m now taking time to use it, especially since I now have a portable studio in my iPad with GarageBand. I was able to do 2 song arrangements, “Angel From Montgomery” and “With or Without You” in 40 minutes wearing earbuds and drinking an Americano at my local Starbucks.

    Here’s to creativity!

  43. Scott says:

    I have yet to meet, or, talk to one Christian that is “afraid” of Obama.

  44. I agree with Scott – I don’t think that people understand political rhetoric.

    The style of talk during the political season is always “that other guy is going to destroy (you fill in the blank.

    The week after the election you won’t hear anyone saying the things they say now.

    Christians are political imbiciles and fall for anything.

  45. @ Scott #44
    I haven’t met any that say directly “I am afraid of Obama”. It is always fear expressed for his policies and their consequences for them which amounts to an indirect fear of him. Or a fear he is a muslim or about a dozen other things. I have quit counting them all. I have not been to class on Sunday morning for 2 months because of one person who bemoans Obama every time they ask if anyone needs prayers. The attitude of others is always to agree and I will return maybe after the election. I am tired of it all. The constant barrage of FB reposts of anti-Obama pictures all with that tinge of how “important this election is” and “what will happen if he is re-elected”. That is fear in my book and I guess you are lucky not to see it.

  46. Disagree MLD at least on the next week thing. I have had to put up with anti-Obama stuff since he was elected. We seem to be in a perpetual election cycle nowadays.
    I do believe that a lot of christians fall for stupid things though.

  47. Hmm…let me make myself clear though. I won’t be voting for Obama though. None of the above is my choice.

  48. Babylon's Dread says:

    Em you are very dear… and I hope you get the stuff done that you need to clear your time for future engagement with the gang…

  49. brian says:

    “why are Christians so fearful and so faithless?”

    Um no offense but fear is very productive, it keeps people from asking questions, it keeps people toting the party line and way way way way way ^100000000K at top it keeps people giving money. That is number one way at the top way way way way way way way, you get the idea at the top. If someone disagrees with me try getting in the way of the revenue stream, you will get born again real quick into the corporation. I wont go to say they are faithless, being the heathen universalist piece of human trash that I am I think most Christians are faithful but confused and scared in hard times. I know open mouth insert finger and barf, but it is how I have come to see most evangelicals. I am sure that will resign me to some level of hell at the very ends of perdition. Actually being told I was going to hell in some fashion or another was a common theme in my Christian experience. Once I got past the idea that God created me, personally, no me personally to suffer for all eternity as an enemy of God created from before the foundations of the Earth to burn in eternal torment the rest naturally followed. I will admit that I struggled with the idea that I hate / loath God with an eternal preordained hatred. I cant seem to bring myself to hate God, I actually still love Him, but that is a character flaw on my part and I am seeking to repent of such ideas.

  50. Worthless says:

    Look, up in the sky. It’s a bird…it’s a plane…

    No, it’s the return of christ…and it is very, very close !

  51. Another Voice says:

    Good words from a true right-wing partisan who runs one of the more popular right wing political blogs out there. I think this would get a lot of agreement here – unless one wants to shoot the messenger(s).
    My world view is pretty simple. I think this world is destined to go to hell in a hand basket by design. I think things are supposed to go to pot. So if Barack Obama wins, I won’t be upset. If Mitt Romney wins, I won’t be running through the streets cheering. I think, either way, it is all part of the design. The world is going down hill. Barack Obama re-elected just gets us down the slippery slope faster in my view. For others, it is Mitt Romney who does.

    God is sovereign and He is in charge and He will return. That is my hope and my ever present expectation.

    We often get so wrapped up in the view of things at ground level, we forget to look at the world from 50,000 feet. In the historic, grand scheme of things, this too will end.

    Don’t confuse me with a fatalist and don’t confuse me with someone who does not really care about the future of our nation. I think we are the last best hope of mankind on this planet. But my destiny is not tied to this planet. While I am here, however, I have convictions that are greater than either candidate and either party and I fight more for a cause than a candidate. I expect, regardless of who is in the White House, I’ll find myself at odds with them, though more so with Obama than Romney.

    When I wake up on Wednesday morning, I’m still going to have my wife. I’m still going to have my kids. I’m still going to have my family. And I’m still going to have my God. So will you.

    Some of you, on both sides, are convinced that the end of the world is nigh. It is. But not quite yet and no one really knows when.

    What I do know for sure is that I’m headed home to eternity and this world is temporary. So while I like politics and have my side and want it to win, I’m not going to be partying in the street if my side does win and I’m not going to think the end of the world is upon us if my side loses.

    You should not either.
    The whole article is here

    Off to preach now…

  52. Babylon's Dread says:

    Funny how much I disagree (progress of history) AND AGREE (outcome) with AV. This election is small potatoes in the scheme of things.

  53. Michael says:

    I have to laugh…there was a day when I would have agreed completely with AV and scoffed at BD…now it’s totally reversed.
    This election is indeed small potatoes…but the future of this place is to become one with heaven when the King returns.

  54. London says:

    Have to say that I just read the FB age in question earlier and now understand why Xenia was hurt/mad enough to leaks a leave of absence.
    I would have felt the same way.

  55. Michael says:


    Thanks for the heads up on the article…glad to see Bowden quoted as the expert on these matters.

  56. Nonnie says:

    I fully agree with London’s 56.

  57. Alex says:

    Again, it is really a waste of time to argue about Eschatology. We’ll all have our own personal “End Times” and no amount of prophesying or hand-ringing or reading Tea Leaves will change the fact of our personal mortality.

    I’m guessing some of the angst is in the “are you ready for the Rapture” which begs a moment-by-moment Salvation and the premise is if the rapture happens and you aren’t “ready” then you’ll get “left behind” to either die in the Tribulation period as a martyr or to die as one of the devil’s and go to hell.

    I’m guessing that the concern both personal and for others is that if you miss the Rapture, it’s an eternal death sentence of sorts.

    I’m not sure about that. Not sure there will be a Rapture the way it is taught by the Rapture Crowd, not sure if it is an eternal death sentence if one is “left behind”. Seems to be the opportunity to go Full Fundie if all the sudden all those folks are gone in a blink. I think that would be enough evidence they were right after all and would persuade many to go Full Fundie and get “truly saved” after that Event.

    I think the Rapture Ready issue is really boiled down to a disagreement on Justification and Eternal Security etc. and an over-emphasis on this one particular murky future event that is hinted at in Scripture. Missler lays out a good argument for the Rapture, however.

    All I know is that I’ll be a believer in the Fundie Rapture Camp if my mother-in-law suddenly vanishes into thin air and I’m left behind 😆 I’ll dust off my Chuck Smith Bible Prophecy books and start gulping the Kool Aid again and volunteer for a head-chopping.

    My current opinion is that it’s much ado about nothing. You’re either saved or you aren’t, you are either one of God’s Elect or you aren’t, if you confess and believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Son of the Living God, you’ve got a chance and a hope of Salvation, but should continue to beg for mercy as there really is no way to know for sure whether you’re truly saved or not. Too many examples of “Christians” that sin all the time, too many examples of those who reject Christianity being “good” people, too many examples of the “church” being abusive and corrupt, liars etc….pretty much my faith that Man is depraved and incapable of “good” on his own…and even “good” doesn’t cut it with regards to Salvation, etc.

    So, I continue to gravitate toward Luther (despite MLD’s poor example 😉 ) I’m not firm on very many beliefs and I know I am a sinner in need of a Savior (constantly) and I sin with the best of them (but still trying to sin my way past many CC pastors which is a high mountain to climb 🙂 )

  58. BTW..I have always loved reading Xenia’s responses she seemed very full of grace. I hope she is doing alright and I just said a prayer for her.

  59. “Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people. Before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children. Before you preach to me of your passion for your faith, teach me about it through your compassion for your neighbors. In the end, I’m not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give.”

    Cory Booker, Mayor of Newark

  60. I will disagree with Alex on the importance of Eschatology by just the fact that your view, whether you realize it or not determines how you read your Bible.

  61. Alex says:

    I want to buy into Cory Booker’s philosophy, however, the Bible, the “church” and many Christians…and the fact that so many who reject Christ do so much real “good”….I just can’t swallow that pill all the way. I think there are despicable “saved” and very “good” unsaved.

    If it were about being “good”…then Gahndi and the Dalai Lama (gotta love the Lama) and even guys like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris and Stephen Hawking (and many of my “good” atheist friends) would be “saved”….and many “Christians” and pastors I know would not be saved….including guys like Raul Ries.

  62. Alex says:

    MLD, how does “determining how you read your Bible” connected to one’s Eschatology affect Salvation?

    You seem to be saying that to be “saved”…you’ve got to read the Bible a particular way…and that particular way is largely determined by one’s Eschatology…or at least that is what you communicated with the words and the manner in which you chose to express yourself.

  63. I will have to go back and read my statement, I don’t think I said anything about salvation.

  64. Off to Costco before the end times… you know, when they stop serving samples:-)

  65. Alex says:

    MLD, the context of my statements were Salvation, to which you interjected…so the underlying discussion regarding Eschatology and “reading the Bible a particular way” was in with regards to it being Salvific.

    Oddly enough, I’m off to Costco as well. That may be a sign 😆

  66. Cory Booker simply puts into words what everyone, and I mean EVERYONE around us is thinking, that any and all religious claims by someone are first going to spring from an inner reality, which is why Jesus said that we were capable of choosing HOW were shining our inner light, and that it’s entirely up to those of us who follow Jesus’ Father in Heaven to shine our lights in such a way that we glorify Him. The power rests entirely with each of us and were surrounded by people who are paying attention to what we do far more than what we say.

    How the whole “saved” thing plays out? If a person is “born from on high”, “born again” as Jesus puts it, then God’s Fatherhood is forever sealed, one cannot be disowned from The family of God.

    Excuse my indelicate questions here, but, “Saved? Now what?!”

    To put it more bluntly, “if we’re saved and we know it” forget about “clapping your hands”, go DO SOMETHING POSITIVE. (shouting at my mirror)

    We, as Nomans likes to remind us, are about “redemption”, reconciliation, so therefore we end slavery, we give women equal rights, we end discrimination, we work to help people better themselves and work to improve opportunity, and we look at our neighbors as those whom we serve, not those who live to serve us.

    When we vote, we’re supposed to be electing “public servants”, and they earn their role as “leaders” only in their actions. Beware voting for “leaders” and those who think we need “leaders”, because they will lead you to destruction. Don’t join a church because you are a sheep and you think you need and want a human shepherd. Be a whole person, owned by no one but Jesus. You don’t need a leader, you need to go it and be an example of the change you want to see in the world. (still shouting at my mirror).

    Look at each and every authoritarian church, each untouchable and unquestionable “leader” and then compare them to Jesus and you’ll find the contrast staggering.

    Rant done, at least for this post

  67. …went to Costco yesterday.

    I miss CostcoCal

  68. Linnea says:

    Costco Cal…yes, miss him, too!

  69. Another Voice says:

    For the record…the guy I quote is an amillennialist. Reformed Presbyterian to be more exact, I believe.

    No rapture stated or to be implied.

  70. I have friend on FB who I have been to Iraq twice with. He gets fearful and scared of Obama agendas and muslims on a regular basis. He is a christian so when I see him getting into a fearful mood I will post a verse dealing with Christ’s kingship, victory or whatever would seem to draw him out of his funk and it usually works. But, a few minutes ago he posted a Campaign Pic of Romney with (insert slogan here). Now that is normal of him, but what disturbed me was that he added the comment of “Mitt, deliver us!” This has just depressed me on the ability of christians to place their faith in some man, the same ones who decried the Left for making Obama into a “messiah”. I think I am going offline after tonight until Wednesday morning, cause this stuff doesn’t make me afraid it just distresses me beyond belief.

  71. Nope, I think I will just continue to be an unwelcome voice that makes them uncomfortable for a few more days.

  72. Well, the Rapture is one obvious place where your Eschatology dictates how you read the scriptures… but that one is too obvious.

    I won’t say whose is right or wrong, I just want to make the point that it is different – very different, The bigger distinctions that require a different reading pattern;
    1.) the most obvious is when you come to Israel & the Church, which then leads to how you read #2
    2.) When did the Church begin – some will read Pentecost other might read it’s beginning in the Garden of Eden.
    3.) When reading prophecy, some would read that Jesus is the sum and substance of all prophecy and others, not.

  73. Derek,
    Hang in there. One good thing about the elections and all the commercials is that we don’t have to watch the next barrage of Christmas commercials coming up. 😉

  74. MLD, true that. 🙂

  75. Another Voice says:

    Agree with MLD here. Any eschatology study better include the hermeneutics of prophecy used by the author…whatever your view.

    I believe about 10% of Pentecost’s Things to Come deals with the different interpretation schools.

  76. AV – I sent you a text about a ballot initiative – I need help

  77. Another Voice says:

    So you did…I answered..

  78. Alex says:

    Gahndi, nearly sinless, except unbelief.

    King David, adulterer, murderer, liar etc.

    Interesting that a guy like Raul Ries teaches Law…but nearly practices Antinomianism in his own life and with regards to his CC pastor buddies.

  79. Alex says:

    Not sure about the Corey Booker “Golden Rule” Good Intentions Gospel…but not sure about the “Preach Law, practice Antinomianism” CC Gospel either.

  80. Alex,
    “Gahndi, nearly sinless, except unbelief.

    How do you know? All we really know about him is the public good he did, but not about his personal private life. You have no idea what kind of sinner Gandhi may have been.

    Why would you think he was “near sinless”???

  81. Another Voice says:

    Alex, I think you would have enough drama in your life right now.

    One thing for sure, once more you have shown yourself to not be a man of your word. You have shown yourself to have no self-control.

    And no, you can’t justify it on the whole ‘I just can’t keep quiet when these pastors act that way’

    Back to back CC bash posts. Unprovoked and unrelated to anything being discussed.

    Every couple of months…like clockwork…as if Michael didn’t have enough drama around here the last 72 hours.

    (Note to MLD. This is what happens when a dispy quotes an amill. 🙂 )

  82. Alex says:

    Forgot CC is off limits and forgot you run the place.

  83. Alex says:

    MLD, theoretically…if a man lived a good life and didn’t ever do anything bad…he’s not saved…correct?

  84. Alex says:

    AV, what you call “drama”, I call doing the right thing and taking a stand.

    I’m not afraid, the truth is on my side.

    Now, I know that might be foreign to you…and most of your kind.

  85. Alex, I taught in my class today that there are only 2 religions in the world – the religion of “DO” and the religion of “DONE” and one of them is a false religion.

    Christianity is the religion of DONE and all the rest are the religion of DO.

  86. FYI – I was teaching out of Galatians 3

  87. Alex says:

    AV, no prob though, I’ll go back to my blog and leave you to your turf.

  88. Alex says:

    MLD, I agree more and more with the Lutheran Position, ironically.

    Have a good night and don’t stress, I’ll go away again so I don’t freak out the community (which seemed to have a problem merging with the SCCL community, so it was nice to see it wasn’t just me).

  89. Alex – you are afraid of the truth. You have kicked me off your blog 3 times. When you allowed me back after the first time you said I could stay as long as I did not make any comments about your brother. I stuck to your rule 100% and within 2 days you kicked me off again.

    And why did you kick me off? Because I made a point to play “Alex” on Alex’s own blog. You couldn’t take it and said that I was too disruptive (how is that for judgement?)

    When we talked by email you said you would let me back on, but all my comments would disappear as it seems that your partner – Tim Taylor, Not Alone, would not allow it.

    So don’t talk to us about you standing for truth – in the words of Jack Nicholson, “You can’t handle the truth.”

  90. ::sigh::

    Please, please, please, you need to really strategic with the court battle on your personal horizon. Please don’t give your antagonists any fuel for their side.

    Continuing to pray for your victory in court and reform in that church movement that is still fond to me.

    And may we all be pleasantly blessed to share heaven with Gandhi, a man more noble than I shall ever be.

  91. Not that I’m anyone other than a participant, I welcome anyone from the SCCL community.

  92. Babylon's Dread says:

    I am pretty confused… I have lost all touch with the players and the moves…

  93. Alex says:

    MLD, I kicked you off the first time for picking on a child abuse victim (my brother Paul) who wasn’t doing anything to you.

    I didn’t kick you off the second time, others did.

    G, you’ve bought into something that isn’t true. The case is bogus. I can talk all I want. The stuff is true and I have the right to say it 6,000,000,000,000 times let alone 6,000 times.

    Cyberbullying is a law to keep teens from picking on other teens (private citizens). It is not there to protect Public Figure/Public Officials from scrutiny.

    BG will lose the suit and there’s other stuff going on that may backfire on him as well.

  94. Alex says:

    MLD, you’re welcome back anytime…if I can convince the others to let you back. I like you. You’re a jerk, not all that bright, but amusing.

  95. Sorry Alex, but I have the email exchange between us when YOU kicked me off the 2nd time. It was the 3rd time that Tim Taylor over rode your decision to let me back on.

    But that’s OK, the point is that when I played “Alex” on Alex’s blog – what Alex does on the PP gets applauded over there as standing for truth – but when they see it on their own blog, they are horrified and have a case of the vapors.

    And I did not pick on your brother, I made a comment based on something he had said earlier, without realizing that he was untouchable – and I don’t know which of your brothers is which – but I respected your further request.

  96. Alex,

    “G, you’ve bought into something that isn’t true. The case is bogus. I can talk all I want.”

    ok, we live in two completely separate universes,
    you in one of complete freedom of expression,
    me, in one of cause and effect, concerned that you will effect your cause.

    Having said that, I’ll remain prayerfully and silently hopeful that you will prevail when the judge makes the final ruling.


  97. Alex, it’s not about me coming back – I don’t have anything left to say and Linda Pappas dominates all the threads with her craziness.

    My point was to your comment to AV @ #87 – it is the very thing that you do not allow on your blog.

  98. Alex says:

    I don’t recall three times, but it is irrelevant. The point is you attacked a child abuse victim ruthlessly and you got banned. Then you did something that you say was “alex” on the blog, but others didn’t see it that way…and the group kicked you off.

    But you’ll see it the way you want to see it, which is fine.

    Careful, you might get sued 🙂

  99. Alex says:

    G, I hear you. I’m never going to be the perfect advocate some wish for. I am who I am. I stay true to myself as much as possible, which is why I don’t fit nicely into any Camp. I’m not afraid and I’m not a phony. It makes me an uncomfortable person to be around sometimes.

    You folks here are largely good people, even MLD. There are some real bad people out there and I’m probably more suited to deal with those types…though I think it gets a little too sensitive over here sometimes (as exampled by the SCCL thread).

  100. nomans says:

    It’s like you guys can’t hear yourselves…

  101. Alex,
    My last word on this.
    1.) I did not attack your brother personally – it was a benign comment that you went crazy over.
    2.) In the middle of it all, your brother came on and told you that he was not offended by my comment.

    Over and out!

  102. London says:


  103. Papias says:

    Nomans @ 103 🙂

    Using the cell phone again – work muust be blocking me from commenting here.

    For the other thread, I was sorry to see things get so ugly. And it was tame compared to what was on FB. I do think we need to “decouple?” The concept that evangelicals are all Republicans and the pseudo-intellectaul backlash. When statements such as “I used to be a Christian and a republican, but then I got a heart and a brain, so now I am neither…” – that’s not condusive to discussion.

  104. Alex says:

    MLD, as usual, your memory is not accurate.

    “Martin Luther’s Disciple
    Submitted on 2011/11/11 at 7:30 pm

    Well Alex, it looks like your mental breakdown is in full bloom. All in one day, you “out” AV and then I find your vulgar message on my FB wall comparing me to sexual body parts.

    I’ve said it before – it may not be right, but at least we know why Bob beat you.”

    You clearly stated I deserved to be beaten by Bob in the above dated, timed comment.

    Then Paul calls you out on it, then you blast Paul, a child abuse victim:

    “Martin Luther’s Disciple
    Submitted on 2011/11/11 at 9:04 pm
    “While I don’t know what is going on between Alex and Martin Luther’s Disciple, those types of comments about victims deserving abuse personally saddens me”

    You are quite deceptive like your brother. Nowhere did I say that You or Alex deserved to be beaten – so I will accept your apology later.

    If you go back and read my original comment, I even said that it was not right, which means that the victims did not deserve it. I just said I know why Bob did it. Alex is quite trying and vulgar as an adult, and I am sure he was also as a youngster.”

    You’re wrong MLD. It’s clear to anyone who is intellectually honest. You said I deserved the abuse and then you accuse Paul of being “deceptive” for defending me. It was over the line. You attacked my brother for no good reason and I banned you. You deserved it.

  105. Alex says:

    but enough is enough, that’s my last word on that issue.

    there are bigger wrongs to right out there.

  106. Outside Observer says:

    Wow … you guys call yourselves Christians, right?

    Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.

    This exchange is absolutely incredible to me. I think there’s a church over in Westboro that is accepting new members.

  107. Candace says:

    Alex ifs the favored target here, but if he’s not around, MLD will fight with anyone. He’s not that discriminating. Yeah, most if not all of them would call themselves Christians.

    I had missed that gem up there. The one where MLD says he understands why Alex’s pastor dad abused him.

    Enjoy. This place is a hoot.

    PS The original SCCL thread (a few done) is still going as of today.

  108. Alex,
    Thanks for posting this

    “You are quite deceptive like your brother. Nowhere did I say that You or Alex deserved to be beaten – so I will accept your apology later.”

    In fact, this was the very comment that got me banned on Alex’s blog.

  109. n o m a n s says:

    Michael didn’t end this so you could just bring it to another thread… Please, just stop.

  110. Nomans – my comments were on this thread long before Michael closed down the other. I didn’t bring them here later. Sorry if you misunderstood.

  111. Em says:

    there is a really neat dynamic here on this blog site that newcomers don’t always pick up on …
    as i see it, using football terminology and leaving out modifiers so as to not sound snarky:
    Michael N = Referee and longtimer MLD = Field judge … if curious, google football officials (i had to) … BTW – i’m up there in the grandstands when i’m here

  112. n o m a n s says:

    Wasn’t addressing you, MLD.

  113. London says:

    Does anyone else ever get the feeling from others Christians words and behaviors that you ate just not “Christian enough” to participate in “ministries” or “out reaches” because you just don’t talk “Christian enough”?

  114. Em says:

    i do have to comment one (or two) things on #116 … those folk have been around forever and my advice is keep walking with the Lord and away from “those folks” … they may be Christians, i know some are … but getting in with them just isn’t worth learning the exclusive buzz-word brand of the Faith IMHO … not sure if the shoe fits, but that’s my view

    as the resident “over the hill” Christian here who tends to kill threads i said i was through commenting/pontificating here today (i’m celebrating what i thot was going to be weeks of redoing work on this computer that i got around the problem by taking screen shots – free time makes me a nuisance … or an oldsance 🙄 )

    now i’m gone

  115. ( |o )====::: says:

    Language is everything within a group, so maintaining normal, non-Christianese speech patterns that avoid hidden meanings and code words, while essential within the “normal world” will definitely cause others within a “ministry” to start to wonder…



  116. Josh Hamrick says:

    Bless your heart, G.

  117. London says:

    My friends are doing a homeless outreach this weekend. Ibooked my travel plans around going with them. Spent my per diem $ on some items, lugged others across country and have now got in a series of emails basically say ing that they don’t “just give out things”. They have all kinds of christianese words to basically say that they do all this praying, preaching etc which I am neither comfortable with or good at. I’m good at giving pragmatic help, or proving things that are needed.
    It feels like that “gift” is looked down on as less valuable and almost detained as “less than” being what a good Christian would do.
    I feel embarrassed for buying stuff (food, water etc. not frivolous stuff) and am almost ashamed to show up with it on the day.
    It seems like to show up with a supply of something is like wearing a badge of ignorance or “ungodly” on my chest somehow. A little hyperbole but mostly true.
    I want to just drop off a few little things, maybe a case of water, then driving down the street to the local shelter to drop off the rest.
    I certainly don’t feel “Christian enough” to go out and assume the homeless people we meet aren’t Christian and that I, of all people, have it together enough to tell them how they should live.
    I’m sure this sounds ridiculous, but it’s really bothering me. Enough that I want to sit here and cry.

  118. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “Does anyone else ever get the feeling from others Christians words and behaviors that you ate just not “Christian enough” to participate in “ministries” or “out reaches” because you just don’t talk “Christian enough”?”


  119. ( |o )====::: says:

    Don’t let it stop you!

  120. ( |o )====::: says:

    Go find a bunch of happy atheists if you have to!

  121. jlo says:

    London, go and do what God has gifted you to do. In the body of Christ all parts are needed. Let them be the head and the mouth, you go and be the heart and the hands.

    When I used to go to Hollywood, it never occurred to us to take food, or practical items, until a friend came with us one night with a cooler full of food. Meeting physical needs open up more doors to meet Spiritual needs.

  122. erunner says:

    Saw a post by Puzzletop noting the 94th birthday of Billy Graham. Last night while channel surfing I dropped in to watch a special on TBN last night celebrating the 94th birthday of Billy Graham. Much of the special was made up of people wishing Billy a happy birthday. As they’ve done this same special before many of the birthday wishes are from other years. Believers and non believers alike were among those sending birthday wishes. Who would pass on that oportunity? 🙂

    There was also extensive footage of Billy in his early years as he preached around the globe. I’m sure people have various issues with him and in his twilight years he/his organization created a stir with the Mormon issue.

    What struck me though was this man’s love for God and for the souls of the lost. And a big theme among the well wishers was the absolute integrity Billy maintained throughout his years in ministry.

    People can come down on the big meetings and decions that were made and how valid they were but I choose to see a man who followed the path God asked him to and did so in a way that him a person all respected.

    We’re a fractured church these days and all the world chooses to see is the scandal and hypocricy and who can blame them? Billy was able to rise above that and it was emotional for me to see the heart of this man as he lived his life. We need so many more believers with integrity who desire to build huge churches or ministries. Billy, by the grace of God, seemed able to do that.

  123. erunner says:

    I posted a two part documentary on my blog about Billy’s life and ministry. It’s in two parts and I just watched part one. I know many might not agree with Billy’s methods or stuff about his life so you probably wouldn’t enjoy it. But if you are drop by and watch. It beats watching the news!! 🙂 Allan

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