You may also like...

51 Responses

  1. Andy says:

    His concern about Biblical prophecy shows faith in the Word of God.

    It is a lack of concern for prophecy, that shows a lack of faith. Faith in the Word of God is the faith Jesus is referring to. As the world goes towards the antichrist, less and less people are caring about these things, as the Bible predicted would happen. Will the Lord find faith indeed?

  2. Josh Hamrick says:

    Biblical prophecy should never push us towards fear.

  3. nomans says:

    Excellent. Thank you Michael.

  4. He actually has the wrong emphasis on prophecy. A lot of my friends are worried about the end times and current events. Heck, I used to be myself. When you focus on what is happening in the world around you it just leads to fear and then you latch on to things like politicians and politics as the solution and trying to actually hold back what you should know will happen anyways.
    The real emphasis on prophecy should be what the emphasis is for the rest of the bible, Christ. When we think about that ” blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” That drives out fear and should be the true emphasis.
    I find it weird also that the same people that worry constantly about end times are the ones that believe in the Pre-trib rapture, yet their own eschatology says they shouldn’t worry about it. Go figure…

  5. Papias says:

    Typing this on the cell phone, so mistakes will happen.. 🙂

    “Our conversations didn’t go well…”.
    I hope that you weren’t surprised by that? Its been 10 years and you have both been listening to different voices. Not that one is bad and the other good – just different.

    Yes, some camps overemphasize Bible prophecy to the point that it sure looks like fear is taking hold. But to the other side, they may see it as God’s plan for the end.

  6. Alex says:

    Excellent points Michael. Yes, there is real faith in my home, though it is tested often.

  7. Jtk says:

    I’m sorry, but in “these last days, God has spoken to us through His Son.”

    These last days…lasting 2,000 years.

    Jesus is coming back for His Bride the church, who will be without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. We are a little short in that regard.

    And the antichrist, of which there are many, have been around for at least 2,000 years since John wrote about them, NOT specifically in Revelation, but in his other letters.

    I am concerned about believers, who in the last days, it says their love will grow cold because of lawlessness.

    Is it THEIR lawlessness? Others’ lawlessness? I don’t know, but it ain’t gonna be me!

  8. Another Voice says:

    Isn’t the context intercessory prayer? Not saving faith at all?

    Seems like a lot of discussion right here on this site has to do with the seeming futility of intercessory prayer – that it seems God does not answer.

    Jesus is teaching us to keep on praying. God will answer.

    Of course, just because Jesus commands it, does not mean His people want to do it.

  9. jtk says:

    why do I keep reading Genesis 12:3 posted as “don’t curse the Jews/Israel” and not the church? Or Israel, as well as the church?

  10. Andy says:

    When Genesis 12:3 was spoken, the church didn’t exist. It has to be about Jews/Israel. Undoubtedly, as grafted in, cursing the church is also obviously evil. But that verse must be about the Jews/Israel.

  11. jtk says:

    Andy, I thought the next verses referred to the church:

    Gen 15:4 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, “This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir.”
    Gen 15:5 And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
    Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

    And does not the New Testament imply similarly that the church, those washed by the blood of Jesus who believe, are Abraham’s true seed:

    Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
    Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

    Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us–for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”–
    Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
    Gal 4:23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
    Gal 4:24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
    Gal 4:25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
    Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
    Gal 4:28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
    Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
    Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

    Help me understand, I’m a simple man without a seminary education; I frequently am asking people here who it all works

  12. Josh Hamrick says:

    Do you think the creation of the church took God by surprise?

  13. Andy says:

    I’m not interested in an argument with people that believe in “replacement theology”. Believe whatever you want.

  14. Btw, I have no idea how #6 posted on here. I would have to guess that either my blog did it or it posted cause I mentioned this post. Sorry!

  15. Andy,
    “I’m not interested in an argument with people that believe in “replacement theology”. Believe whatever you want.”

    Are you talking about those who have replaced Jesus Christ with ethnic Israel?

  16. Jtk says:

    Ok Andy

    Labels instead of discussion, do what you want.

  17. Adam & Eve were the first members of the Church.

  18. Andy says:

    Ephesians chapter 3, verse 5, which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:

    The church wasn’t known by anyone before its existence. It was a mystery later revealed. Genesis 12:3 can’t be about the church.

    And now I will hold to my word and leave this discussion, as, I’m outnumbered by about 30 to 1 anyway, and the choir defends the choir.

  19. Andy, I don’t know how you made the church the mystery – when it is obvious that the gospel is the mystery.

  20. Paige says:

    vOh my gosh, this could not be more timely, although my ‘old friend’ is definitely not for Romney….. nor for re-electing Mr Obama. I’ve had to push back, away from this longtime friend….even unfriend her on Facebook because of the vitriole and attacks on the character and intelligence on anyone (moi) who doesn’t agree with the hysteria and worry, worry, worry about EVERYTHING. sigh……
    This has made me decide to really press into living in deliberate faith, deliberate belief in God via the Scriptures, particularly the Sermon on the Mount.

  21. Em says:

    “Adam & Eve were the first members of the Church.” – might be, but i see the Church as a separate, distinct Body of Believers … not something worth elaborating on here – but since you stated so dogmatically … 🙂 … sorry for the smiley crutch, but i need crutches

  22. Em says:

    i don’t have a problem with anyone – Christian or pagan – worrying about the state of the world, of this nation, of the economy (it will be fine for the really rich as it always has been) – the Bible does say things will get worse and worse and worse … so why can’t we just tell our panicked brethren, “do what you must to feel prepared, but first of all keep your lamp lit?” … respond kind of like the patronizing, tolerant atheists do to us? just sayin

  23. what? says:

    MLD @20; I can’t believe what you just said. Paul himself said the mystery was the church–jew and gentile together forming one body. Your response was flippant and silly.

  24. Paige says:

    You know, Em, #23, I don’t have a problem with people worrying about the state of the world. What disturbs me are the insults and attacks on my character (by old friends!) that accompany the proclamation of their opinion.
    I like the saying “opinions are like arm pits. everyone has a couple” 🙂

  25. Em says:

    Paige, tried to respond to your #25 and got system error msg. – just sayin those people you don’t want for friends, or anything else involving your life

  26. Jtk says:


    You are not outnumbered!

    This is such a diverse group on here. We probably all disagree on many/most things! But that is part of the strength of the PP–Combined with the few things we agree on.

  27. Babylon's Dread says:

    Only if he hurries up… but most likely I will be napping…

  28. A Believer says:

    Then you will really look like your gravatar image…. 😉

  29. Ixtlan says:

    You might want to read Galatians 3, particularly Galatians 3:8. But does mean mld is right about these things either…..

    I got unfriended by someone because I posted something against Obama……it happens on both sides of the aisle.

    good night all…

  30. Paige says:

    Regarding the scripture question, ‘when the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on the earth?” has always puzzled me as well…… thoughts?

  31. Em says:

    😯 … i’m being moderated over on the other thread, so let my try the apology over here

    as i shut this thing down here (my computer, not the blog, of course), if i seem to take people lightly, i apologize …
    i forget how much reality is tied up up in internetville for those younger and raised in its atmosphere – the people behind these blog posts were important enough to the Creator to go through incarnation and crucifixion for – probably body odor and acne also, which can wear on a person in this life – i often think the one thing that he didn’t subject Himself to was old age and that for good reason, IMO
    i am surprised and honored if anyone here feels my thoughts important enough to be offended by them – your feelings are your responsibility, but your heart is a treasure that no one should trample – God made it and He wants it returned to Him for repairs as needed; i don’t want to be a hindrance to that happening

    God keep

  32. Babylon's Dread says:


    I think this statement in Luke is Jesus musing about his own reception by those people. I do not think this is musing about his second coming.

  33. Babylon's Dread says:

    Still the question is valid…. isn’t it.

  34. A Believer says:

    That seems odd to me Dread. The use of the word “returns” would seem a strange way for Jesus to reference his first coming. He was already there as He spoke the words.

  35. Alex says:

    Absolute/Objective vs. Relative/Subjective Truth and Authority. Just sayin’.

    There will never be agreement on the secondary issues…and there are very very few Primary issues where there is broad agreement. It is what it is.

    My answer to the questions the older I get? “I don’t know, ask your mother” 🙂

  36. Em says:

    just chiming in cuz i don’t know anything … i’m agreeing with BD, which can’t be too encouraging for him … could the passage be one of those ‘you have to know Greek to get the full meaning’ passages? one of those aorist things? one of those variations on ‘if” things?

  37. Alex says:

    The other issue is the lack of Critical Thinking skills possessed by most doing the interpreting of Scripture. When you combine subjective writing that lends itself to broad interpretation, combined with largely insufficient training and skill in Critical Thinking and the ability and knowledge of Logic/Reason….and you rely largely on “feeling”…then you get the flustercluck of broad range of disagreement in the “church” over so many issues.

    30,000+ denominations and main lines. Broad disagreement on this thread about one particular passage = I dunno (at least not conclusively).

    Having said all that, Luke 18:8 appears to be tied contextually to the Parable with stated meaning of: “Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.”

    In that context, it appears to be a rhetorical question and a means of persuasion. In other words, He’s using a question to emphasize His point of “don’t give up”.

    Analogous to a Coach asking rhetorically after a pep-talk: “At the end of the game, am I going to find a bunch of quitters?”

  38. Alex says:

    …the assumed response that Jesus is looking for is, “heck no!”

    I think reading the tea leaves and conjecturing any more than that is simply speculation and imagination.

  39. I am always amazed at the certainty of Alex’s uncertainty.

  40. Babylon's Dread says:

    AB … “returns”? the passage in question says “comes”

  41. brian says:

    I was in a bible study some years actually decades ago back during the Soviets were going to attack us, mog and magog, and there would be a nuclear war and 3/4 of the world would be wipe off the face of the Earth in a nuclear mushroom cloud. This bible study leader was smiling, one of those “Praise the Lord” type grins. Now this was a nice young man, good person good bible teacher relatively speaking. I mentioned later, because one does not ask public questions about God and Jesus and the bible during a bible study even during open discussion and question if one does not wish to be kicked out. But that is another post. Well anyway he was adamant and really rather excited at the prospects of getting whisked away watch those get theirs then he can come back on a white horse and take out what was left.

    The conversation did get joined by a few other “brothers” who all held to some type of nuclear war after the rapture type scenario, or maybe a Nuclear exchange and then some awful biological war followed by some secret scalar wave weapons with holograms of alien ships which would really be demons coming down to deceive the elect. Weil I asked I thought the elect would be gone in the rapture, nope thats the pre rapture elect not to be confused with the post rapture elect won to Jesus by the 144 thousand celibate Jewish converts.

    Well the conversation did continue, me playing the rebel without a clue role and sneering down my hypocritical nose at these other folks. But deep down it started to trouble me, I did not wish to see billions burned up in a nuclear exchange, then resurrected again and the great white throne judgement and then sent into everlasting fire with their perfect resurrected bodies. That actually makes no sense. Later on in the night it troubled all of us, even the real true believers I mean it really troubled us. We wound up praying about it, for a rather long time. That prayer time was one of the best times of fellowship and unity I remember. Once we got past all the noise and hand waving. I share nothing with these fine folks anymore, but I still wish them Godspeed.

  42. brian says:

    This is classic Lar$on in my opinion, though I will cross many lines I will never cross the lines that someone cannot earn a lucrative income within the corporation. I have been to many of these sideshows, but no one does it like Bob. And from personal discussions the exorcist can really rake in the cash. That alone justifies what they do and always will, well actually it does not but I am a heretic. But you have to admire Bob’s rhetoric and way he works a “crowd”, granted that “crowd” is less compared to his franchise back in the 80’s and 90’s. He does have the new angle of the “Charlies angels” exorcist niche Market and he is to be commended for leveraging his assets with his child and her friends. That is a bold move and it has gained some traction.

    It bothers me and I understand it should not, he is working the business and business is good. But it does bother me, I need to repent of such emotionalism.

  43. Alex says:

    MLD (Martin Luther’s Disciple) said, “I am always amazed at the certainty of Alex’s uncertainty.”

    Martin Luther said, “”I shall never be a heretic; I may err in dispute, but I do not wish to decide anything finally; on the other hand, I am not bound by the opinions of men.”

    Seems your boy Luther was certain in his uncertainty as well…

  44. victorious says:

    Another excellent article. Like the parables of Jesus, you do a good job of emphasing and engaging the hearer with one main point. Also, you forced me to go and re- read the passage. I have heard this passa

    I agree that fear and futility are the opposers of a hope fueled , yet greatly tested faith in Luke 18.
    Not apostasy.

    Jesus wants to encourage that type of faith, a faith that can endure to the end, bolstered by relationship informed by a knowledge of the unwavering goodness and receptive love of our Father, upholding us in the midst of trial, bringing forth whatever justice needs to expressed towards the deeds of people that refuse to be redeemed by Gospel mercy on that Last Day.

    I need to learn to pray in every season rather than faint for any reason.

  45. victorious says:

    Never mind my truncated, un-edited third sentence. 🙂

  46. victorious says:

    Ok. I cant count correctly on first try either. My fourth sentence. I always forget where I park at the shopping center too.

  47. Another Voice says:

    Spoke on this verse (and 16 other ones) today…

    (Note the context of the end of the previous chapter – chapter divisions as we know being added later, and often disrupting the flow of the text. Especially in Luke I have noticed…

  48. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    I think Jesus is referrring to the state of the world upon his second coming, few will have faith and most of the world will be fallen away. Kinda goes in line with few be that find it,” the Kingdom of God”-the narrow road

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Discover more from Phoenix Preacher

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading