“The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, a cult book of the 1980s, suggested that every society goes through three phases: Survival, Inquiry and Sophistication. ‘For instance the first phase is characterized by the question How can we eat? The second by the question Why do we eat? And the third by the question Where shall be have lunch?’ In our “sophisticated” Society, it is entertainment that draws crowds. Shopping is an entertainment, I am told. Priests and pastors, like teachers, writers and footballers, must entertain if they are to keep their following.” Timothy Radcliffe, Why Go to Church: The Drama of the Eucharist.
Today I began my preparation to teach Revelation. I had told my class a year ago I would teach Revelation if they would first go through Daniel and Matthew with me – you have no chance with Revelation without those two books.
Tomorrow I will teach the 2nd half of Matthew 4. This will be my 12th week in Matthew and when I stretched it over the calendar it looks like it will be all of 2015 to complete the book.
So I am hoping to have all of my Revelation prep done by the time I complete Matthew. So, to my Dispensationalist friends, when I make comparisons to other views is it acceptable to make the locust drones instead of Huey helicopters. 😉
I just read on FB that Ken Blatchford has passed away. He was a regular here for years and his screen name slips my mind right now. Please pray for Ken’s family.
I dont want to cause any pain but many of you are truly people of prayer unlike myself, to my shame, please just pray for the Alcorn family. Thank You.
“In our “sophisticated” Society, it is entertainment that draws crowds. Shopping is an entertainment, I am told. Priests and pastors, like teachers, writers and footballers, must entertain if they are to keep their following.” Timothy Radcliffe, Why Go to Church: The Drama of the Eucharist.”
Unquote.
Entertainment can and does attract.
In my 47 years as a Christian I have on just a few occasions been blessed to have been in the presence of people of God who were genuinely “anointed” of God.
There was something about them beyond the ordinary.
When they spoke, the Word of God, there was an impact behind the words that energized the listener.
I could go to one of their services and feel the beneficial effects, of having been there, on my walk with God for an entire week, before I felt like I needed to go back for more exposure to what they could do in their ministering to everyone.
They were not much in the entertainment department, I want to mention Pastor Jack Hayford of “Church On The Way” as a prime example.
He is a serious kind of a man of God with very little entertainment value, and yet his campuses are always full of people from all walks of life.
The true anointing of God upon a minister draws people and retains them.
Any one who is anointed of God is a bearer of His presence in their lives.
I don’t know Jack Hayford, but he and his church, The Church on the Way, in Van Nuys, California are mentioned in a book I own titled, From Pentecost to the Present: The Ten Greatest Revivals Ever, by Elmer Towns and Douglas Porter (2000).
Here’s what the authors say about The Church on the Way:
In the Epilogue: Some Lessons Learned:
“Second, we’d draw attention to the praise music revival that began in the 1980s. It’s centered in The Church on the Way, in Van Nuys, California, and has spread throughout churches worldwide – both charismatic and non-charismatic – under the influence of that congregation’s senior pastor, Jack Hayford. The use of praise worship music seems still to bring revival to churches that use it properly.”
In the interview section, Jack credited the revivalists, John Wesley, Aimee Semple McPherson and Billy Graham as the most influential to his ministry.
Jack Hayford has a very incredible grasp of balance in ministry.
He never wants to be misunderstood so he couches everything in ways that even the most difficult of topics become understandable to anyone present in his services.
He will cover a topic from many differing angle points, repeating the lesson over and over again, but in the varied vantage points so we get a wonderful perspective that we may not of otherwise gotten from just one angle.
He just stands on his platform there, mostly with his arms folded in front of him and speaks.
No theatrics, no attempts at charisma or comedy, just the Word of God presented.
But man is he anointed!
You get a sense of God’s presence as he speaks with the authority the anointing gives to a yielded man of God who has no interest in lifting himself up before God’s people.
His humility is astounding, really refreshing to behold in someone who wields so much power in Christ.
Before he passes on to glory, if ever there is a chance to go visit his church, I recommend doing it.
You will come away knowing full well that you got the privilege of being in the presence of one of God’s great servants.
I can’t say enough good things about the man of God.
That is not to say there are not others like him, he is just one of them that I have sat under for a few years to my great satisfaction in the Lord.
I believe that Oden Fong also got the privilege for a season or two to sit under him while he lived in that area.
I would suggest to all Christians to not buy into comedy, theatrics or charisma in ministers, because at some point those kind of things will fail in the end as we have discussed here at PP.
Seek out those who bear God’s presence in their lives and who speak the Word of God.
Those who have the Holy Scriptures as their foundation.
Jack Hayford has been a constant in my own walk in the Lord. Except for one item, which maybe you can clear up for me. I have tried to research this, but as yet have not found anything that provides information that gives a solid stance on his position of the trinity. Instead, I have found information that he is of the “Jesus Only” group.
I hope that I am wrong on this—-I understand that he has now taken on the position with Gateway Church — where Driscoll went to after resigning from his pulpit, as some sort of prophetic advisor.
That video, Getting Drunk on God, leaves me almost speechless. I had no idea things like that exist in the name of Christ, especially in a neighboring state. On the other hand, where there is a void, something usually fills it. What is your take on it?
I watched most of the Hayford message you linked in your following comment. Thanks for sharing that.
Jean,
The Pentecostal Movement – Azusa Street was 1st Wave
The Charismatics – Calvary Chapels and other independents were the 2nd wave
Toronto Blessing – Brownsville – IHOP – Rick Joyner – Todd Bentley etc = 3rd Wave
Alan Hawkins is our resident 3 waver. Perhaps more on the fringe these days due to the crazies like Joyner, Bentley and the guys in the video.
Ah, I see. I wonder what the author of “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” would say if he got a look at how Jesus is portrayed by that fellow up in Minneapolis from the video.
Actually the 3rd wave is the phrase coined by C Peter Wagner (ripping off Alvin Toffler) and pinned onto Wimber…. because Wimber’s innovations reached evangelicals like myself.
As for Bentley Joyner and Crowder… well every movement has its crazies
Luther’s certainly did. 😉 maybe we should handle them like Luther did
I do however agree that Toronto has turned out to be a much bigger deal than Wimber… so that perhaps Wagner jumped the gun.
I prefer to call 1960 to 1980 the Fourth Great Awakening …
I know there was some overlap, but I always saw Brownsville as separate from some of the other 3rd wave stuff. Seemed to have a little more checks and balances.
Brownsville was different because the leaders made the rules … interesting phenomenon
But Brownsville was definitely organically and directly tied to Toronto via Stephen Hill who was personally renewed by the Holy Spirit via the ministry of Sandy Miller of Holy Trinity Brompton who was in turn blessed and renewed via …you guessed it, the Toronto Blessing
Josh the 3rd varies according to your the evangelical / pentecostal divide
Evangelicals look to the 1857 Prayer Revival … which yielded the ultimate fruit of Azusa, Pentecostals are more likely to go straight to Azusa … with roots back to Phoebe Palmer 1857 … I don’t know but I think 1850 to 1900 is what the nonchristian analysis chooses
Edwards/Whitfield
to Stone/Finney
to Palmer/Lanphier — — Parham/Seymour
to Bennett/Smith-Frisbee/Wimber
Hmmm, that’s interesting. I don’t know what it would take to qualify as an “Awakening”, or where one movement would be distinguished from another, but it is all very interesting.
It’s all yours today…
please pray for me and my wife. pastor buddy is sickies and requested I fill in tomorrow.
appreciated.
-mike
“The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, a cult book of the 1980s, suggested that every society goes through three phases: Survival, Inquiry and Sophistication. ‘For instance the first phase is characterized by the question How can we eat? The second by the question Why do we eat? And the third by the question Where shall be have lunch?’ In our “sophisticated” Society, it is entertainment that draws crowds. Shopping is an entertainment, I am told. Priests and pastors, like teachers, writers and footballers, must entertain if they are to keep their following.” Timothy Radcliffe, Why Go to Church: The Drama of the Eucharist.
Today I began my preparation to teach Revelation. I had told my class a year ago I would teach Revelation if they would first go through Daniel and Matthew with me – you have no chance with Revelation without those two books.
Tomorrow I will teach the 2nd half of Matthew 4. This will be my 12th week in Matthew and when I stretched it over the calendar it looks like it will be all of 2015 to complete the book.
So I am hoping to have all of my Revelation prep done by the time I complete Matthew. So, to my Dispensationalist friends, when I make comparisons to other views is it acceptable to make the locust drones instead of Huey helicopters. 😉
MLD,
Check this out for an explanation of 666:
I like that – I agree.
Does he mean that it was not Ronald Reagan?
Ronald = 6 Letters
Wilson = 6 Letters
Reagan = 6 Letters
MLD,
It means it is not Pope Francis.
Get a pizza 🙂
Well – it may not be Francis himself, but it is the Office of the Papacy.
I just read on FB that Ken Blatchford has passed away. He was a regular here for years and his screen name slips my mind right now. Please pray for Ken’s family.
Ken’s screen name here was Puzzletop.
I’m stunned…just got an email from him a couple days ago.
Sad news – en sent me an email on Christmas Eve.
Ken was just on here a few days ago, I think with the Courson thread if memory serves. Plus saw him post on facebook recently too.
Michael, if you (or anyone else) hears what happened…please let us know.
Stunned too.
Wait..what?!! shocked
I dont want to cause any pain but many of you are truly people of prayer unlike myself, to my shame, please just pray for the Alcorn family. Thank You.
Sorry to hear about the loss of one of ours. God be with you all.
Jean (#2),
*Quote:
“In our “sophisticated” Society, it is entertainment that draws crowds. Shopping is an entertainment, I am told. Priests and pastors, like teachers, writers and footballers, must entertain if they are to keep their following.” Timothy Radcliffe, Why Go to Church: The Drama of the Eucharist.”
Unquote.
Entertainment can and does attract.
In my 47 years as a Christian I have on just a few occasions been blessed to have been in the presence of people of God who were genuinely “anointed” of God.
There was something about them beyond the ordinary.
When they spoke, the Word of God, there was an impact behind the words that energized the listener.
I could go to one of their services and feel the beneficial effects, of having been there, on my walk with God for an entire week, before I felt like I needed to go back for more exposure to what they could do in their ministering to everyone.
They were not much in the entertainment department, I want to mention Pastor Jack Hayford of “Church On The Way” as a prime example.
He is a serious kind of a man of God with very little entertainment value, and yet his campuses are always full of people from all walks of life.
The true anointing of God upon a minister draws people and retains them.
Any one who is anointed of God is a bearer of His presence in their lives.
.thgil ees ew thgil ruoY nI
(VJK) 9:63 mlasP
=
Psalm 36:9 (KJV)
In Your light we see light.
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-names-of-our-god-great-light.html
Our brother is blissfully with the Lord.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of one of His saints.
He will be missed.
Surfer51,
I don’t know Jack Hayford, but he and his church, The Church on the Way, in Van Nuys, California are mentioned in a book I own titled, From Pentecost to the Present: The Ten Greatest Revivals Ever, by Elmer Towns and Douglas Porter (2000).
Here’s what the authors say about The Church on the Way:
In the Epilogue: Some Lessons Learned:
“Second, we’d draw attention to the praise music revival that began in the 1980s. It’s centered in The Church on the Way, in Van Nuys, California, and has spread throughout churches worldwide – both charismatic and non-charismatic – under the influence of that congregation’s senior pastor, Jack Hayford. The use of praise worship music seems still to bring revival to churches that use it properly.”
In the interview section, Jack credited the revivalists, John Wesley, Aimee Semple McPherson and Billy Graham as the most influential to his ministry.
Hi Jean,
Jack Hayford has a very incredible grasp of balance in ministry.
He never wants to be misunderstood so he couches everything in ways that even the most difficult of topics become understandable to anyone present in his services.
He will cover a topic from many differing angle points, repeating the lesson over and over again, but in the varied vantage points so we get a wonderful perspective that we may not of otherwise gotten from just one angle.
He just stands on his platform there, mostly with his arms folded in front of him and speaks.
No theatrics, no attempts at charisma or comedy, just the Word of God presented.
But man is he anointed!
You get a sense of God’s presence as he speaks with the authority the anointing gives to a yielded man of God who has no interest in lifting himself up before God’s people.
His humility is astounding, really refreshing to behold in someone who wields so much power in Christ.
Before he passes on to glory, if ever there is a chance to go visit his church, I recommend doing it.
You will come away knowing full well that you got the privilege of being in the presence of one of God’s great servants.
I can’t say enough good things about the man of God.
That is not to say there are not others like him, he is just one of them that I have sat under for a few years to my great satisfaction in the Lord.
I believe that Oden Fong also got the privilege for a season or two to sit under him while he lived in that area.
I would suggest to all Christians to not buy into comedy, theatrics or charisma in ministers, because at some point those kind of things will fail in the end as we have discussed here at PP.
Seek out those who bear God’s presence in their lives and who speak the Word of God.
Those who have the Holy Scriptures as their foundation.
Surfer 51
Jack Hayford has been a constant in my own walk in the Lord. Except for one item, which maybe you can clear up for me. I have tried to research this, but as yet have not found anything that provides information that gives a solid stance on his position of the trinity. Instead, I have found information that he is of the “Jesus Only” group.
I hope that I am wrong on this—-I understand that he has now taken on the position with Gateway Church — where Driscoll went to after resigning from his pulpit, as some sort of prophetic advisor.
Surfer 51
I have to laugh at myself sometimes—–finally found the answer to the question posed.
http://www.jackhayford.org/store/new-spirit-filled-life-bible/
Using the “Flesh” to sell God?
This is Jack Hayford.
http://bit.ly/1vM3VRH
Surfer51,
That video, Getting Drunk on God, leaves me almost speechless. I had no idea things like that exist in the name of Christ, especially in a neighboring state. On the other hand, where there is a void, something usually fills it. What is your take on it?
I watched most of the Hayford message you linked in your following comment. Thanks for sharing that.
Jean,
That is mainstream 3rd wave
MLD,
What would the 1st and 2nd waves be? I’ve never heard Christian movements referred to as “waves” before. Thanks.
Jean,
The Pentecostal Movement – Azusa Street was 1st Wave
The Charismatics – Calvary Chapels and other independents were the 2nd wave
Toronto Blessing – Brownsville – IHOP – Rick Joyner – Todd Bentley etc = 3rd Wave
Alan Hawkins is our resident 3 waver. Perhaps more on the fringe these days due to the crazies like Joyner, Bentley and the guys in the video.
MLD,
Ah, I see. I wonder what the author of “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” would say if he got a look at how Jesus is portrayed by that fellow up in Minneapolis from the video.
I should have added that The Vineyard was probably the bridge between 2nd & 3rd Wave
Waving
Actually the 3rd wave is the phrase coined by C Peter Wagner (ripping off Alvin Toffler) and pinned onto Wimber…. because Wimber’s innovations reached evangelicals like myself.
As for Bentley Joyner and Crowder… well every movement has its crazies
Luther’s certainly did. 😉 maybe we should handle them like Luther did
I do however agree that Toronto has turned out to be a much bigger deal than Wimber… so that perhaps Wagner jumped the gun.
I prefer to call 1960 to 1980 the Fourth Great Awakening …
Babbling Babylon
I know there was some overlap, but I always saw Brownsville as separate from some of the other 3rd wave stuff. Seemed to have a little more checks and balances.
Should have written 1960 till ….
What was the 3rd, Dread. Asuza?
Josh,
Brownsville was different because the leaders made the rules … interesting phenomenon
But Brownsville was definitely organically and directly tied to Toronto via Stephen Hill who was personally renewed by the Holy Spirit via the ministry of Sandy Miller of Holy Trinity Brompton who was in turn blessed and renewed via …you guessed it, the Toronto Blessing
Josh the 3rd varies according to your the evangelical / pentecostal divide
Evangelicals look to the 1857 Prayer Revival … which yielded the ultimate fruit of Azusa, Pentecostals are more likely to go straight to Azusa … with roots back to Phoebe Palmer 1857 … I don’t know but I think 1850 to 1900 is what the nonchristian analysis chooses
Edwards/Whitfield
to Stone/Finney
to Palmer/Lanphier — — Parham/Seymour
to Bennett/Smith-Frisbee/Wimber
Hmmm, that’s interesting. I don’t know what it would take to qualify as an “Awakening”, or where one movement would be distinguished from another, but it is all very interesting.
Jack Hayford is not as balanced as some think, unless Robert Morris also is.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/01/04/god-consults-gateway-church-pastor-robert-morris-on-future-of-kings-university/