#2 -from a strictly hypothetical stand, i have to go with the enormous immunization schedule for the tiny ones… my two youngest grandchildren were vaccinated for some STD or other – say what?
my last child was born in 1967 and then it was measles, mumps and rubella early on – don’t recall when the polio vaccine series was added… around age one, i’m pretty sure – at that time our pediatrician said, that he’d no longer administer smallpox vaccinations as “there is more danger from the vaccine than from the possibility of catching the disease…” and i remember our family doctor in the 1940s telling my grandmother that one had to be careful with immunizations as not all suppliers are reliable (Harvard med school graduate)
but the correlation with the increase in immunizations, while startling to me, could just be coincidental… sure seems that there has to be an environmental change link somewhere
DavidH’s comment brought something to mind… are there any statistics on the number of children diagnosed with autism whose parents do not believe in immunization inoculations?
for the record, i do believe in immunization, but i do wonder if we aren’t overdoing it?
Costco, is your family then one of those coping with Autism? … i pray that we come up with a treatment that works to restore these dear ones… there must be a way
Well, food allergies have exploded in the same timeframe. In the west, we eat almost exclusively wheat and dairy is a staple of our diet. When I grew up, no one was allergic to peanuts. Now, every classroom has someone with a peanut allergy.
Regarding the vaccine issue, is it possible some kids are more susceptible to reactions than others? As medical science progresses, we will see differentiated treatments for different people. Instead of treating the disease the same way, a DNA test will reveal the sensitivity each individual has to a set of environmental factors, and those will be treated. In reverse, could a vaccine cause different genetic factors to respond differently? Seems reasonable to me.
Has any one read much on Exchanged Life Theology? Must have been a fad in 90’s. I saw a mention of it in a text book and picked up a couple of the popular books, Classic Christianity by Bob George, and Grace Walk by Steve McVEy, and read them on my winter break from school.
Some good ideas. Doesn’t seem completely practical.
Classic Christianity by Bob George is one of the worst “Christian” books I have ever read.
I had a terrible experience at a weekend retreat sponsored by a bunch of his disciples. Contrary to their teaching, they were the most legalistic and judgmental group of people I ever spent time with. Even after I got home, one of them called me on the phone and screamed at me for half an hour.
An example, one of a dozen little episodes at this retreat:
I am in the habit of saying grace before meals. They think this is legalistic. So, seeing that no one was going to lead us in a prayer of thanks for the food, I quietly and unobtrusively bowed my head for a few seconds. When I looked up, everyone at the table was glaring at me. I was lecured the rest of the meal on what a pathetic Christian I was because I was in bandage to dead godless rituals, etc etc. And this was when I was an evangelical.
Whole weekend went like that and then the screaming phone call when I got home.
These were devotees of Bob George. Instead of attending church they listened to his tapes.
I think it was a fad that has faded. I appreciate your input, both of you.
The concept *sounds* good though, right? Like I said, after reading it, I didn’t really see how it would work out in real life. Xenia’s experience at the retreat answers that question.
I can get along with all kinds of folks. If I find myself in a group of people I don’t agree with, I try to be affable and only speak when spoken to. Did not work with this group. Once they discovered I was a person who thanked God for my food they were after me like a pack of hounds on a rabbit the rest of the weekend.
I am always fascinated by people who go to retreats / conferences and read discipleship type books outside of their own tradition. There is a built in disconnect that assures 100% failure.
MLD, this was years ago. My closest friend at the time was a devotee. My CC pastor thought his book was “a breath of fresh air.” I went with an open mind.
I am saying why does someone who belongs to a church body / denomination go outside of that to take on the theological practices of someone outside “the camp” to tag on Michael’s other thread.
Promise Keeper – Bill Gothard seminars etc.
George came out of a tradition from Dallas Theological seminary…Zane Hodges was the theologian in residence for the “free grace” crowd.
It’s nothing but classic antinominianism.
CostcoCal – Speaking from first-hand personal experience, the rise in autism is absolutely linked to the KINDS of vaccinations we are doing now compared to 40 yeas ago when I was a kid. I saw it happen to my own second son.
There are some genetic predisposition to kinds who react and develop autism which is why it isn’t across the board. However, black males are the most susceptible to developing autism. Interestingly enough, boy period are more prone to autism. What about girls? The effects of materials of the vaccinations manifest in girls in the form of autoimmune disorders that manifest later in life. We are just now seeing these effects.
Some will argue that good intentioned scientists would never endanger people. Other will argue that its all about $$$. Its like the Epi Pen thing. People need it, patent it, make money. Make vaccinations required, you have an instant income pool.
This isn’t crazy anti-vaccer talk. At least one doctor/scientist form the CDC has come forward to say that they KNOW these product are harming kids, but at the same time they are producing future patience who will need drugs. It is about the bottom line. The medical industry.
I have way to must to post here, but I highly recommend the movie Vaxxed. It’s hard facts, research, interviews. My wife and I cried when we watched it because we saw it happen to our second child. It didn’t happen to our first because we didn’t complete his course of shots. There are a significant number of kids out there who have zero shots and they are completely and perfectly healthy. My own sister has two like this.
I’d better stop there. Sorry for the ramble. I know that I just have a hard time who dismiss people like me out of hand as anti-vexers when much of the time they themselves have never done the research. Watch the movie and make up your own mind.
Regarding the question of autism, I don’t know, however, I would not be surprised if it had to do in part with chemicals used in processing of food and/or which leach into our water sources. For example, I think it’s generally acknowledged that girls are going into puberty at a measurable earlier age on average than they did 50 years ago.
Forgive me for all these links but some people may be interested in what has changed in recent times to cause some of the ailments we are seeing increase in society at large.
***
Joining Dusty in her continuous intercessory prayer vigilance for others.
Knowing full well that God hears our prayers that we ask of Him and answers them.
He is a good God!
We praise and thank Him for the good things He does!
“Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to
them that ask him?”
Update on Dannie: she was released from surgical acute care and transferred to the children’s hospital for rehabilitation. This next year will be rough…
Watched a two hour Dateline special this evening. Had to do with the 2001 murder of a woman looking to sell her home. As they set the whole thing up I got pulled in and stuck with it.
It turned out the man who murdered this woman worked at a church and presented himself as a devout Christian. He was involved with the worship at the church in some capacity.
Throughout the program he denied his guilt but was found guilty. He’s still in prison and agreed to be interviewed for the conclusion of the program. He showed up carrying a Bible and still denying everything.
The guy had done eight years in prison for a similar crime that didn’t result in murder and had quite the rap sheet. Yet he had an answer for everything which amused the man interviewing him.
It made me wonder how he was working at the church to begin with as it was obvious if a background check had been done he wouldn’t have been hired.
Seeing a man with Bible in hand presumably lying through his teeth about the vicious murder of that poor woman was difficult to stomach.
I can’t fathom a professed believer doing these things and suspect I could be easily fooled by a person professing Christ in any number of ways.
I thought of the millions who saw this and saw the Jesus card being pulled once again by a cold blooded murderer. Their stereotype had just been re-enforced.
Michael. If my calling was to bring hard truths to light I know I couldn’t shoulder the burden. I’m afraid I’d become too jaded. For your sake don’t take on more than you can bare.
I’m pretty jaded, but I also have learned to keep Jesus at the center of what we do.
That’s the key to my sanity.
Thank you for thinking of me and being a faithful friend here…
item – our healthcare system still needs some tweeking…
today someone, not me, went into the walk-in clinic with a kinda sorta emergency, got a prescription and took it to the local chain store pharmacy…
“who are you insured by?” “oh, then we can’t fill your prescription – we’re not your designated provider”
“i’ll pay cash”
“no we can’t do that”
“you don’t understand, i said that i’ll just pay cash”
“we’ll lose our license anyway, if we fill your prescription”
“there’s no one i can call today to find out who is; can you at least tell me where to take this?”
“no, we have an agreement with the State and i can’t give you that information”
“but i live an hour out of town…”
“well that’s too bad, but i can’t help you.”
prayer appreciated that this person’s eye infection can wait until Tues. when the proper pharmacy can be located
My son (who turns 7 in two weeks) was diagnosed last month with ASD Level 1 (“requires support”), or what they used to call “Asperger’s” before the last DSM revision. Both his mom and I were part of the process, a 5 hour interview and testing for our son. The Dx was based both upon various behavioral tests as well as parent interviews. His mother pushed this.
A month before we went in, I asked his teacher point-blank in a conference: “Do you think S6 needs a 504 plan?” She shook her head, no and said that he was doing fine academically, that on occasion he had trouble switching tasks and was a perfectionist. It was like his mother wasn’t listening. I didn’t say anything.
During one portion of the test, his mother and I were behind a one way mirror. I could see where our son was “failing” part of it, no making eye contact. S6 also memorizes things, loves facts, and goes on and on about telling you what he’s learned. Is this a mental illness? 1/3 of the engineers I work with might qualify for this diagnosis!
In my opinion, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Now, a team from the Easter Seals are going to come into our homes to observe things. All the while, it’s unspoken (though the therapists on the other side are aware of some thing, not the Autism specialists), of the toxic environment and massive changes that our children have experienced in the last 4 years: mom left, remarried, now living separately due to domestic violence. Both she and our son have told me about the toxic emotional environment that they have been witnessing. Maybe: firstly, our son is smarter than most (both adults and kids have picked up on this since he was 2); secondly, he retreats into his own world sometimes because it’s more comfortable than reality. I’m amazed they’re so well adjusted.
In short, I don’t buy the entirety of the ASD spectrum. DSM classifications are just that: mental illness by committee, and every DSM revision is fraught with controversy.
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First.
That hasn’t happened in a long time.
Anyone have a good hypothesis why the statistics for Autism has exploded since 1975?
Diagnostic process is a partial explanation. Doctors are much better trained at diagnosing it across the “Autism Spectrum.”
If your fishing around the “anti-vaccination” pond, I, personally, don’t think that has anything to do with it.
#2 -from a strictly hypothetical stand, i have to go with the enormous immunization schedule for the tiny ones… my two youngest grandchildren were vaccinated for some STD or other – say what?
my last child was born in 1967 and then it was measles, mumps and rubella early on – don’t recall when the polio vaccine series was added… around age one, i’m pretty sure – at that time our pediatrician said, that he’d no longer administer smallpox vaccinations as “there is more danger from the vaccine than from the possibility of catching the disease…” and i remember our family doctor in the 1940s telling my grandmother that one had to be careful with immunizations as not all suppliers are reliable (Harvard med school graduate)
but the correlation with the increase in immunizations, while startling to me, could just be coincidental… sure seems that there has to be an environmental change link somewhere
Nope. Just speaking from personal experience, as much as the numbers.
When I was a kid, truly, Autism was not nearly the factor it is now.
DavidH’s comment brought something to mind… are there any statistics on the number of children diagnosed with autism whose parents do not believe in immunization inoculations?
for the record, i do believe in immunization, but i do wonder if we aren’t overdoing it?
Costco, is your family then one of those coping with Autism? … i pray that we come up with a treatment that works to restore these dear ones… there must be a way
Well, food allergies have exploded in the same timeframe. In the west, we eat almost exclusively wheat and dairy is a staple of our diet. When I grew up, no one was allergic to peanuts. Now, every classroom has someone with a peanut allergy.
Regarding the vaccine issue, is it possible some kids are more susceptible to reactions than others? As medical science progresses, we will see differentiated treatments for different people. Instead of treating the disease the same way, a DNA test will reveal the sensitivity each individual has to a set of environmental factors, and those will be treated. In reverse, could a vaccine cause different genetic factors to respond differently? Seems reasonable to me.
Has any one read much on Exchanged Life Theology? Must have been a fad in 90’s. I saw a mention of it in a text book and picked up a couple of the popular books, Classic Christianity by Bob George, and Grace Walk by Steve McVEy, and read them on my winter break from school.
Some good ideas. Doesn’t seem completely practical.
Classic Christianity by Bob George is one of the worst “Christian” books I have ever read.
I had a terrible experience at a weekend retreat sponsored by a bunch of his disciples. Contrary to their teaching, they were the most legalistic and judgmental group of people I ever spent time with. Even after I got home, one of them called me on the phone and screamed at me for half an hour.
An example, one of a dozen little episodes at this retreat:
I am in the habit of saying grace before meals. They think this is legalistic. So, seeing that no one was going to lead us in a prayer of thanks for the food, I quietly and unobtrusively bowed my head for a few seconds. When I looked up, everyone at the table was glaring at me. I was lecured the rest of the meal on what a pathetic Christian I was because I was in bandage to dead godless rituals, etc etc. And this was when I was an evangelical.
Whole weekend went like that and then the screaming phone call when I got home.
These were devotees of Bob George. Instead of attending church they listened to his tapes.
The screaming was because I resisted joining them in their belief system.
“Classic Christianity by Bob George is one of the worst “Christian” books I have ever read.”
I concur and find this theology among the most loathsome in all of Protestantism.
Had some of his disciples try to split our church once…
Does he still have a following? I remember he had that dreadful radio program, People to People.
Xenia,
I don’t know.
I get irrational at the mere reading of his name…
I think it was a fad that has faded. I appreciate your input, both of you.
The concept *sounds* good though, right? Like I said, after reading it, I didn’t really see how it would work out in real life. Xenia’s experience at the retreat answers that question.
I can get along with all kinds of folks. If I find myself in a group of people I don’t agree with, I try to be affable and only speak when spoken to. Did not work with this group. Once they discovered I was a person who thanked God for my food they were after me like a pack of hounds on a rabbit the rest of the weekend.
Xenia,
They would have really come after you if you admitted frequent repentance and asking for forgiveness…
I think it did come up…..
Fascinating.
This will be one of those times I’m glad I can learn from the experience of others, and don’t have to see it for myself. 🙂
I am always fascinated by people who go to retreats / conferences and read discipleship type books outside of their own tradition. There is a built in disconnect that assures 100% failure.
I don’t think it was outside of Xenia’s tradition at the time.
Oh, I must be thinking of a different Bob George. Is this Bob George you guys are talking about a Calvary Chapel guy?
I dunno. I think he was a para-church evangelical type guy.
MLD, this was years ago. My closest friend at the time was a devotee. My CC pastor thought his book was “a breath of fresh air.” I went with an open mind.
I came to the conclusion that he was some kind of free-style ultra dispensationalist.
I wasn’t EO at the time. Not yet.
I am saying why does someone who belongs to a church body / denomination go outside of that to take on the theological practices of someone outside “the camp” to tag on Michael’s other thread.
Promise Keeper – Bill Gothard seminars etc.
I actually went on this retreat to help a young woman with her new baby. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have gone.
George came out of a tradition from Dallas Theological seminary…Zane Hodges was the theologian in residence for the “free grace” crowd.
It’s nothing but classic antinominianism.
CostcoCal – Speaking from first-hand personal experience, the rise in autism is absolutely linked to the KINDS of vaccinations we are doing now compared to 40 yeas ago when I was a kid. I saw it happen to my own second son.
There are some genetic predisposition to kinds who react and develop autism which is why it isn’t across the board. However, black males are the most susceptible to developing autism. Interestingly enough, boy period are more prone to autism. What about girls? The effects of materials of the vaccinations manifest in girls in the form of autoimmune disorders that manifest later in life. We are just now seeing these effects.
Some will argue that good intentioned scientists would never endanger people. Other will argue that its all about $$$. Its like the Epi Pen thing. People need it, patent it, make money. Make vaccinations required, you have an instant income pool.
This isn’t crazy anti-vaccer talk. At least one doctor/scientist form the CDC has come forward to say that they KNOW these product are harming kids, but at the same time they are producing future patience who will need drugs. It is about the bottom line. The medical industry.
I have way to must to post here, but I highly recommend the movie Vaxxed. It’s hard facts, research, interviews. My wife and I cried when we watched it because we saw it happen to our second child. It didn’t happen to our first because we didn’t complete his course of shots. There are a significant number of kids out there who have zero shots and they are completely and perfectly healthy. My own sister has two like this.
I’d better stop there. Sorry for the ramble. I know that I just have a hard time who dismiss people like me out of hand as anti-vexers when much of the time they themselves have never done the research. Watch the movie and make up your own mind.
On a completely differ note, there was a CCA meeting this week. Any news on that front other than hilarious videos?
“I am always fascinated by people who go to retreats”
I’m at a retreat this weekend. 🙂 I think they can be very refreshing.
Regarding the question of autism, I don’t know, however, I would not be surprised if it had to do in part with chemicals used in processing of food and/or which leach into our water sources. For example, I think it’s generally acknowledged that girls are going into puberty at a measurable earlier age on average than they did 50 years ago.
Good morning pp! Hope you all have a good day.
Remembering in prayer
Paige
Michael
Dan
Nene
Mk
Erunner
Cosco cal
Captain kevin
Linnea
Remembering in prayer
London
Em
A pharmaceutical chemist is antivax.
He explains why:
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2017/01/a-pharmaceutical-chemist-is-antivax.html
Thanks for the continued prayers dusty!
Forgive me for all these links but some people may be interested in what has changed in recent times to cause some of the ailments we are seeing increase in society at large.
Danger in our food supply:
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2016/02/danger-in-our-food-supply.html
Genetically Modified Foods Harm Our Immune system (Vids):
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2016/03/gmos-harm-immune-systems-states-respond.html
So why must we not eat GMO foods?:
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2015/10/so-why-must-we-eat-non-gmo-foods.html
Evidence always demands a verdict:
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-saga-of-chipotle-and-big-corporate.html
***
Joining Dusty in her continuous intercessory prayer vigilance for others.
Knowing full well that God hears our prayers that we ask of Him and answers them.
He is a good God!
We praise and thank Him for the good things He does!
“Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to
them that ask him?”
Matthew 7:9-11
Thank you, dusty…praying for folks on the list.
Surfer51- thanks for the links.
Update on Dannie: she was released from surgical acute care and transferred to the children’s hospital for rehabilitation. This next year will be rough…
Watched a two hour Dateline special this evening. Had to do with the 2001 murder of a woman looking to sell her home. As they set the whole thing up I got pulled in and stuck with it.
It turned out the man who murdered this woman worked at a church and presented himself as a devout Christian. He was involved with the worship at the church in some capacity.
Throughout the program he denied his guilt but was found guilty. He’s still in prison and agreed to be interviewed for the conclusion of the program. He showed up carrying a Bible and still denying everything.
The guy had done eight years in prison for a similar crime that didn’t result in murder and had quite the rap sheet. Yet he had an answer for everything which amused the man interviewing him.
It made me wonder how he was working at the church to begin with as it was obvious if a background check had been done he wouldn’t have been hired.
Seeing a man with Bible in hand presumably lying through his teeth about the vicious murder of that poor woman was difficult to stomach.
I can’t fathom a professed believer doing these things and suspect I could be easily fooled by a person professing Christ in any number of ways.
I thought of the millions who saw this and saw the Jesus card being pulled once again by a cold blooded murderer. Their stereotype had just been re-enforced.
Michael. If my calling was to bring hard truths to light I know I couldn’t shoulder the burden. I’m afraid I’d become too jaded. For your sake don’t take on more than you can bare.
Erunner,
I’m pretty jaded, but I also have learned to keep Jesus at the center of what we do.
That’s the key to my sanity.
Thank you for thinking of me and being a faithful friend here…
item – our healthcare system still needs some tweeking…
today someone, not me, went into the walk-in clinic with a kinda sorta emergency, got a prescription and took it to the local chain store pharmacy…
“who are you insured by?” “oh, then we can’t fill your prescription – we’re not your designated provider”
“i’ll pay cash”
“no we can’t do that”
“you don’t understand, i said that i’ll just pay cash”
“we’ll lose our license anyway, if we fill your prescription”
“there’s no one i can call today to find out who is; can you at least tell me where to take this?”
“no, we have an agreement with the State and i can’t give you that information”
“but i live an hour out of town…”
“well that’s too bad, but i can’t help you.”
prayer appreciated that this person’s eye infection can wait until Tues. when the proper pharmacy can be located
Just completed 3 days of hosting Jean Dragon and his family. He is a great guy and our wives got along even better than we did.
praying em
still praying for you Michael
MLD glad you had a nice time with your friend.
My son (who turns 7 in two weeks) was diagnosed last month with ASD Level 1 (“requires support”), or what they used to call “Asperger’s” before the last DSM revision. Both his mom and I were part of the process, a 5 hour interview and testing for our son. The Dx was based both upon various behavioral tests as well as parent interviews. His mother pushed this.
A month before we went in, I asked his teacher point-blank in a conference: “Do you think S6 needs a 504 plan?” She shook her head, no and said that he was doing fine academically, that on occasion he had trouble switching tasks and was a perfectionist. It was like his mother wasn’t listening. I didn’t say anything.
During one portion of the test, his mother and I were behind a one way mirror. I could see where our son was “failing” part of it, no making eye contact. S6 also memorizes things, loves facts, and goes on and on about telling you what he’s learned. Is this a mental illness? 1/3 of the engineers I work with might qualify for this diagnosis!
In my opinion, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Now, a team from the Easter Seals are going to come into our homes to observe things. All the while, it’s unspoken (though the therapists on the other side are aware of some thing, not the Autism specialists), of the toxic environment and massive changes that our children have experienced in the last 4 years: mom left, remarried, now living separately due to domestic violence. Both she and our son have told me about the toxic emotional environment that they have been witnessing. Maybe: firstly, our son is smarter than most (both adults and kids have picked up on this since he was 2); secondly, he retreats into his own world sometimes because it’s more comfortable than reality. I’m amazed they’re so well adjusted.
In short, I don’t buy the entirety of the ASD spectrum. DSM classifications are just that: mental illness by committee, and every DSM revision is fraught with controversy.
http://www.kjateddynanda.com/index.php/ar/k2-categories/item/213-creative-solutions
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