Today on the Church Calendar is the Presentation of our Lord in the Temple – this is after Mary’s 40 days of purification.
The importance;
It’s the return of the Lord to the temple after a 450 yr absence.
It is the culmination of the 70 7s – sorry dispensationalists you have it wrong.
I have been saving this for Open Blogging because I couldn’t remember which thread it was on and I didn’t want to derail other threads.
So, my position is that a saved person can’t “lose” their salvation – they cannot sin it away, but they can do things to kill their own faith and walk away from it. Other say that is impossible – but I wonder how these verses are handled?
2 Tim 2:12 – “if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;”
Matt 10:33 – “but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.”
2 Tim is very clearly speaking of believers who will deny him.
Reuben,
I was not tying the 450 yr absence to the 70 7s
70 7s does indeed equal 490 – these are the exact number of days between the announcement to Zechariah that Elizabeth would be pregnant with John the Baptist and the arrival of Jesus in the temple.
Good morning beautiful blog family. Just wanted to say I have grown to love you all so very much, through many fires and prayer. The hard truth is my time here has come to a close. There is no scandal, no behind the scenes story, no drama. It’s just time for me to move on. Michael has become the greatest brother a girl could ever ask for, and the other mods have become family as well… You have all taught me, stretched me and tempered me…
Forever grateful,
Nomansapologist
I have been saving this for Open Blogging because I couldn’t remember which thread it was on and I didn’t want to derail other threads.
So, my position is that a saved person can’t “lose” their salvation – they cannot sin it away, but they can do things to kill their own faith and walk away from it. Other say that is impossible – but I wonder how these verses are handled?
2 Tim @ 2:12 – “if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;”
Matt @ 10:33 – “but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.”
2 Tim is very clearly speaking of believers who will deny him.
My intention wasn’t to derail the other thread. I responded to another post that I could not in good conscience let stand. I was then told I don’t like confrontation and so I spoke plainly and to the point.
I have for years now been a passive person when I post and to see a thread closed because I shared something that PALES in comparison to what routinely is posted here I am genuinely shocked.
If my comments are the standard then half the stuff on this blog should be moderated as well. I’d apologize but I’m not sure what there is to apologize for.
Nomans, I’ll miss seeing you here and will always have fond memories of meeting you in person and the shock of learning who I was talking to! God bless!
Nomans going will leave a big hole in the PhxP …
praying for those who have taken some below the belt hits here recently … i pray you consider and then ignore the source – if the PhxP is to survive as a rich forum for the Faith
E,
It’s ok.
With losing BrianD and Nomans the blog lost its heart and soul.
I just wanted to stop the conflict.
When I get home I will deal with it all.
Michael, I didn’t realize we lost BrianD as well. I can see how difficult that is as they have been strong and positive influences for so long on the blog. Thanks for the response.
I am sooo sorry to see Nomans go…and wish she would reconsider….I did not realize that BrianD left too, and wondered about the linkathon for this week. We will miss you Nomans. I could always count on your godly counsel in any of the disputes and you will be sorely missed.
I too will miss Nomans and BrianD. I haven’t been around here much lately…only for the reason that in my personal life I have been in a job (since August) that is sucking the life out of me…have nothing left when I get home. Thankfully my contract is up the end of May and I look forward to getting my life back.
Michael, this blog has been a godsend for me. Though I don’t contribute much, please know how much I value your friendship and cherish those who contribute here.
Nomans is a pure treasure. BrianD is the real deal.
I am sick as a dog today. Trying to sleep. Taking fish tank antibiotics to kill what I think is strep. I have some hard explaining to do tomorrow to our little Anglican church. They may or may not understand. I may be elected to a position I don’t want. My job was crazy, and then it all stopped. It seems that weeks and weeks of 50+ degree temperatures in the middle of the winter has made the calls stop coming in. I have been cut back to 32 hours a week. Many others have been laid off. I was thankful yesterday that I still had a job. Today I have nothing much to be happy about.
I am going to lay in bed tonight, and hopefully sleep. Whiskey may be my only hope of getting there.
I haven’t been posting much lately but still always reading along. Quite sad to see both Nomans and BrianD leaving. They meant a lot to this place and will be sorely missed.
Reuben, you and almost everyone who posts here is a treasure (sorry about the “almost” qualifier – but all i know is what i can read here) …
… i wonder if you all know what you have accomplished here? what the honesty and search for truth and grace has accomplished?
it is past time for me to move on, but not for any offenses to my person here, i’m not sure that i made that clear earlier – i’ll be lurking and praying for a good outcome to all this – may God keep the PhxP gang
I’m just poking my head in for a moment. Sick here as well…must be in the air.
Nomans brought a sense of grace to this place that will be deeply missed, and BrianD kept us aware of many outside our limited circles.
This place has changed so significantly over the last few years…for a variety of reasons. I think some of us have had a hard time finding our fit in the new dynamic. My involvement has become limited simply because of homeschooling and life babies and life being busy. This has continued to be a place of dialog and of prayer and of ministry, no matter what the latest dynamic has been. Praying for wisdom, especially for Michael, and that each of us finds our niche where we are fed and challenged and find friendships. Crazy the life this place has had…
I’m just curious… what is the point of this blog? what has been the recent changes? There’s no place on the blog that we can go to find this.
TBH: I came over here one day because Alex hadn’t updated in weeks and I was clicking on all the links on his sidebar. It was rather humorous to see him and few others from his blog commenting.
I’ve always been welcomed at his blog, even when I sharply criticized him. He’s updating again, so maybe that’s where I’m meant to be and that’s where I’ll stay.
If Alex is the problem, well… then PxP does have a problem. Isn’t 1/4th of the readership from his blog? I’d suggest making it clear that you don’t want people from his blog to come over and Alex should remove this link from his site.
As for Alex, he’s his own person. Obviously he’s going to do what he wants. I accept him for what he is. But to say that he’s ruining the blog, or constantly tearing him down… well… he’s seems to be as much a part of the blog as Michael, MLD, Em, BrianD. That’s been my insight and I’ve only been here a couple of weeks.
I will use this opportunity to be the first serious one here and to issue a warning to Michael Newnham: God called you to speak His truth the way a man like Jeremiah was called. That means to do so effectively you will find it will be and should be a relatively lonely road if you refuse to compromise on the seriousness of what He has for you to say. If you choose instead to try to “make nice” with some of the wicked men God has called you to expose, you will find that while you are less physically lonely you are also less spiritually effective. Be encouraged knowing that if God calls you to be a Jeremiah then eternity will bring great rewards even if earth brings great trials….par for the course. I encourage you to stand firm to your original call. Read Jeremiah 15 and the criteria God gives him for being “a voice” that can speak for God. Stay away from spiritual lightweights, devour the Word of God and share what He gives you to share and see the purpose God had for your life while you were yet in your mother’s womb like Jeremiah did: Always persecuted by this world and the devil but always greatly honored by heaven.
Wow Michael… How did you make it so long without so much “godly” (little g intended) counsel?
I have learned so much from you Michael and as always, continue as I know God tells you. You certainly don’t need to be told by anyone here how to do what you do. Thank you Michael and kkep up the good work.
Fly,
Phoenix Preacher has been around a lot longer than Alex. He is part of the community, not the reason for it. He participates, as do we all, equally. He is not responsible for the readership, and there are those who have moved on for their various reasons, some checking in from time to time, freely participating in a commendable give & take environment.
Alex and I have had a season of sharp disagreements and now we are, thankfully, kind toward one another. I much prefer our kindness. I much prefer how he is working hard to step back and take a breath, and I, and everyone here continue to pray for a great and just outcome for him and his brother as they have their day in court.
A Voice,
Um, your post strikes me as one who is egging someone on to fight a battle you would like to be fighting but don’ have the moxy to bring it yourself to those whom you despise.
Perhaps you could cut the hyper spiritual mumbo-jumbo and prayerfully be supportive of Michael Newnham, and quit laying some grand guilt trip on him?
When God speaks to a man or woman they don’t need some external whipping boy who has not one shred of compassion beating the crap out of them.
Perhaps you might want to refamiliarize yourself with the ancient account of Job, and the many times elsewhere when someone comes along and brings a load of accusations. Follow The One who bestowed The Comfortor, and stop imitating The Accusor of The Bretheren, lest you yourself be found at odds with the very heart of Jesus toward Michael.
How dare you try to shame a man who is simply seeking to love and raise his child, shine in his career, and be true to the still small voice of The Holy Spirit who is producing a heart of love in him that your goading never could?
Thank you G~ you said it much better than I did. It is very frustrating when someone comes here and has all the answers yet doesn’t know Michael or his heart. Your response was gracious and to the point.
Nomans and BrianD are wonderful people who have given far more to this ‘place’ than they ever could have received. While I’ll continue to frequent these pages, I’ll never contribute in the manner they both have. I wish them both great joy and blessing moving forward and hope they’ll pop in occasionally to keep us up to date.
I use to “think” that way A Voice, then I walked into unit 32 at the developmental center and all that went out the window like a puff in the wind. You want to stay the course Michael, stay with the “mud people” like many of us are seen as, much better company.
To be an an enclave for the hard bitten, for those with a nagging, gnawing ache for genuineness. And a time-earned aversion to manipulation, to artificiality, and to personal ambition masquerading as servanthood.
Who believe Christianity can produce lives that are real and fulfilling. Who may still have no idea how that happens.
Not to speak truth to power, but to speak the truth about the misuse of power and help us all better recognize that and deal with it.
Thank you all for the comments. Please keep them coming. I’m just want to make sure I’m on the same page as this blog. And if I’m not, please let me know. I’m not doing it intentionally.
When I said the “first serious one on here” I only meant in the posts for 2/2/2013. Michael, I wasn’t trying to egg you on or beat you down. What I said to you wasn’t casually or callously intended. I am a stranger to you and in no way do I have the platform you have or any intention to tell you what to do. Consider my comment to be an exhortation and if not, then at least know that no offense was intended. To be honored by God is truly the highest honor possible and that was intended as an encouragement to you because as you stand in strength, though the world around you may seem to be shaking, the Rock on which you stand never will. That I know from experience. I hit a sore spot with some people on here although truly the comment was intended for you and I am sorry if any shame seemed attached to the comment. We have no reason for shame, we are in Christ. Exhortations and even admonishment and even rebukes (my comment was not a rebuke though) should not cause shame because our lives are hidden in Him and He bore all our shame on the Cross. That being said, I pray that my comment will serve its intended purpose, the full of which I do not even know. Though this is my first time posting here I have prayed for you in the past and will continue to do so. Thank you for all that you do.
A voice my comment was not meant as a “rebuke” etc. It is just a fact in my life, I had it all figured out, not saying you think this way it is just me.
“We have no reason for shame”
Of the many decades I have spent in the corporation this is the gnawing tick that drives home, shame. Always ashamed of some fleeting thought while helping someone because it may loose me my reward. I look and see a beautiful women and smile and it is equivalent of raping her. Some guy cuts me off in traffic and I get frustrating it is the equivalent of offing him with a bullet to the head. Asking questions of the leadership of the faith based group, was the same as “rebellion” which is the same as witch craft. I knew some witches back in the day, often they would give me a cold cup of water when the faith family I was in could not spare a drop. I would make a lousy witch, I dont buy incantations and magic spells. I wont continue that rant out of respect.
I grew tired of the thought police so I dropped off the raydar and out of their universe. It is not the same universe I live in. I get back on the grid once in a while, here is one of the places I raise my head. But I am off the grid in the real world outside of a little community of “new ager” type folks who actually know the bible quite well, in English and the original languages. I never wanted God’s honor, power, respect or any other such trivialities, I just wanted Him to love those I work with. After 30 + years in the system I have come to understand that is a totally unreasonable expectation.
Brian I wish you the very best too. We truly have no reason for shame. Jesus truly paid it all even if people we may have viewed as authority figures in the past claimed otherwise. They were, are and always will be wrong to do so. Realizing that gives us a huge advantage in maintaining our peace in Christ and our sanity when confronted with rejection or abuse. We have no shame. Jesus was literally physically defiled and demoralized in every way possible on our behalf. No one can make us feel shame at this point unless we let them. We need to dig our heels in and remaining rooted and grounded in the Word so we know what is of God and what is not so that people claiming authority cannot confuse us because they will try to constantly….but we don’t have to let them. Many times we perish because of a lack of knowledge. Those who desire to live a godly life WILL suffer persecution. That is inescapable. The problem is when the persecution comes from people we think of as authorities in the things of God, we don’t know how to process it because either we don’t know enough of what the Word says about how God views these people or we don’t believe enough of what the Word says. I recognized this truth very quickly about myself and did everything I could to remedy it. I chose to study His Word and listen to what He had to say when I prayed about it as I read, I let the Word search my own heart and then I went one step further…I chose to believe that if there is conflict between what people say and even what I think and what the Word says…then the Word is right and the human viewpoint is wrong! It wasn’t easy. I started to recognize that I had believed a whole lot of things that were truly just pop-culture or Christianese but which the Word never promised or even suggested. The peace I have now is real. It doesn’t depend on perfect circumstances because if it did I would be a wreck.
I have to admit it took some investment and discipline to choose to truly dig into God’s Word for myself with my heart asking Him for wisdom at every sentence, but the fruit was peace. I can say with great confidence and a smile on my face that in this world I will have and have had trouble but I can be of good cheer because He has overcome the world! I accept that as fact like I accept a lot of other difficult truths from the Word as fact, not because I have anything in my flesh nature that even remotely wants to believe this, but because my spirit has grown stronger than my flesh nature because I feed it the meat of the Word constantly. So I am able to “get over myself” pretty quickly cause the Word is always correcting any carnality immediately. It requires discipline, but it pays off. I remember living with wobbly ideas on what the Word said about certain things and I look back and know that I would have benefited if I could simply have been able to say “No that is wrong, that is not what God thinks about this or that because here is what He actually says in His Word” . That would have shut the mouth of all the charlatans I encountered in my journey!
I have no shame Brian and neither should you. Jesus bore it all! Don’t listen to any foolish assertions from past faulty authority figures saying otherwise. We can receive correction without shame or offense the same way we can receive encouragement. God chastens His sons and even when the chastening is not pleasant it bears good fruit. Trust me when I say that God’s honor is an amazing thing to have and of far more value than the honor of man! The fear of man brings a snare but when we trust in the Lord we are safe. It may not seem that way to anyone around us but on the inside we know the truth and we have peace and we can see eternity. If we weren’t people who believed in eternity a blog like this would not even exist.
I love this community and I am thankful for the “friends” I have here. Michael you are loved and respected by so many here and we applaud you in doing what you believe God is calling you to. Whatever that may be. I am very sad to see Nomans and BrianD leave. I miss Xenia, and others who have left. Change is hard, but life is full of changes and this community is alive. God’s will be done. You all have enriched my life, challenged me and help me grow in Christ. Michael, I pray that you will have peace in which ever way the Lord will direct you with this blog. His will be done.
” We truly have no reason for shame.” I appreciate that but beg to disagree, from day one shame, dread, horror, fear, loss, and so on was the common theme of the “good news” I was exposed to. I still deal with the idea that God hates me personally and cant wait for the day my heart beats its last so He can exact vengeance on my soul for the sins I have committed. I understand what you are saying but from the cheap seats, where what you ay cant apply, it is not good news, and it never has been.
I agree with “A Voice” and I’m glad the person shared that. I am very disappointed with the callous and muted response on the CS thread from many long-timers. When folks see evil and simply don’t care anymore…that’s a bad sign. It was the death of the true PhxP.
We’re at a crossroads again on here. I’m a constant, you know I want waffle and blow with the wind.
I volunteer to be a Moderator and in that position as a sort of leader it would change the dynamic some for me and I would feel more a sense of responsibility to hold back as I actually believe that leaders are called to a stricter standard.
I volunteer to write some over here and administer the “rules” without prejudice, even if it is Michael himself.
The true PhxP needs to rise from the ashes of that Chuck Smith thread. The Chuck Smith article was good work.
Michael, you’ve got a choice. If you waffle now, if I lose the lawsuit, you will get sued, that’s the word on the street. Heck, they may even sue you anyways b/c you are showing so much weakness and they thrive on that.
Showing weakness and trying to pretend you didn’t do all the stuff you’ve already done with regards to CC is blood in the water to the sharks. They will devour you and teach you a lesson and your “friends” on here will probably tell you you had it coming and then run for the hills. Some of these cats on here are fickle. I’m telling you it’s too late for you to say you aren’t the Phoenix Preacher any longer. They’ll get you and they’ll make sure you stay down for good. Deep down you fear that and it’s too late to waffle now.
I’ll always be there for you for the fight. I’ll always care. I know you agree with me that there is a major Problem with CC and I know you like it when I take the fight to them.
I have no idea who “A Voice” is, but I think that exhortation is from God and you better heed it. I have a sense about these things.
What did I just read? People don’t react how you expect them to react and here comes Alex to save the day. Is this going to be a calvarychapelabuse franchise?
I am just gonna throw this out there ’cause I have been thinking it. Could be wrong but, still doesn’t make me not think it.
Alex comes here and stirs stuff up. Effectively abandons his own blog, I mean look at the comments sections there, how often does he even comment there? It is mainly a cheerleader section for him anyways. But, his people come over here and make it their personal task to defend him. Granted, he has played the “good” boy for a week or so. But I smell a rat and I think this was the goal all along. I really think he has been pissed and plotting and scheming to create chaos so he can save the day and find an extra outlet for his “crusade”. Am I wrong? Maybe, but my BS meter goes wild with Alex in a thread. This isn’t doubting his story of abuse, just his motives. Everyone can see that it has gone from justice with him to a personal crusade of vengeance.
I really apologize if anyone is offended by this but it is what I think.
My advice, which isn’t worth much, don’t let Alex get his greedy little paws in here. You will regret it.
Michael, fight in the way God has given you and as you are able physically, but don’t think that just because you can’t see results that they aren’t happening. Or that results are what was needed in the first place. And this is just an example, but the prophets usually told people what was wrong and how to change, but things still did not go the way “we” want, but they did go God’s way.
As for me, I need a break to write on a book. I will be praying for all and following along.
“We’re at a crossroads again on here. I’m a constant, you know I want [sic] waffle and blow with the wind.”
Alex’ focus is on exposure of pastoral abuse with a goal of payback for his wounded earthly family – right or wrong? i am not to say …
on the other hand, Michael’s focus is on exposure of abuse with a goal of healing and restoration to the wounded of God’s family – the proof is in the content of years of texts and comments
there is a difference between Alex and the man he is addressing here – the man he is using, consciously or unconsciously, as a pretense to expand his own audience
the Phxp has taken the risk, standing naked and exposed moving on to higher ground in a defense of God’s integrity, His truth and His reputation and that’s the visible difference, the rest is known only to God, Himself … but there is a difference and it’s an important one
It’s a crusade against abuse and corruption in the church.
corner, not payback, exposure “expose them” per the bible and justice and accountability which is sorely lacking in the church and CC.
Not here to “save the day” but if Michael is short on Mods, I’m willing to help.
I do agree there is a difference between the blogs. One is pretty straightforward in its goal of “expose” and “warn” and “publicly rebuke” etc per the bible and to lobby for reforms and to give victims of abuse a voice and validation.
The other is some sort of mash up that is hard to pin down to what it is and what the rules are etc.
The Chuck Smith story examples the fact that the PhxP is still lurking in there and wanting to come out. Again, I agree with “A Voice”, it is Michael’s calling. Quit making this about “me” and focus on the issues and topics. I’m tired of stating my case and then everyone focusing on me and then getting blamed for your focus and responding to error and slander.
If I was a Mod I would moderate Derek’s comment as it is full of slander and attacking and I’ve been told that is against the rules..but I rarely if ever see the rules applied equally when the attack is against some folks while others are protected. That’s just calling a spade a spade and it should be dealt with.
Michael, when disagreement happens sometimes it can be good and make people think. I don’t think you want a moderator who will make sure that all voices agree with him. I am pretty sure he does that at his own blog and will do it here. He likes to bitvh and bring up an “unfair standard”, but he makes the situation where people don’t want to hear him.
That is my final word here for a while. I will be following the blog, because you have a lot of blessing in your words Michael.
Derek, I think the history on here proves who the target of Moderation is (though Doug Gilliland got nuked before me). I can’t recall hardly any (if any) instances where others have been modded for similar or worse comments and changing topics to focus on me just for me making a comment etc etc. There is a history of a double standard. I accept it, I just call it like it is. I’m no victim, I fight back every single time and I don’t take it.
Good morning Reuben. I’ll end with that comment today. Gotta go get some work done anyway and then spend some Family Day and Super Bowl….woohoo! Go Niners!
Alex,
“Derek, I think the history on here proves who the target of Moderation is (though Doug Gilliland got nuked before me).”
I was kicked off this blog before Doug – but, after a 3 month banishment I came to my senses and decided to play by the rules.
I am with Derek – what is your underlying motive here – why don’t you just do what you want to do over at your blog? If we are a bunch of confused misfits, why do you even care?
Alex, it is a coward who would wait for me to be gone then unroll this less than benevolent agenda before this beautiful community. Stop mischaracterizing my time here as a moderator, stating I have been.unfair, and stop speaking death over my friend Michael.
Freedom means freedom of association, as all of us who have ever been shunned and manipulated by toxic religion and relationships can attest.
The beauty and genius of this place that Michael hosts has always been the dialog and discussion, not the exposé or the supposed rallying of the troops. It’s as each of us has dialoged, participated in the give and take that we’ve come to learn and develop a fondness between us that is uniquely the community we know here.
We have each found our voices, found that we have lived in self imposed chains because someone tried to intimidate us, silence us, threaten us. These chains were purely illusions once we began to speak about how we feel, and our struggles in the face of our abusers and as we dare to tell them “enough”!
I, for one, cannot yet fully fathom how I allowed the influence of fundamentalism to keep me down, and I have no one but myself to blame, and everyone here, especially Michael, to thank.
Scott,
I read something along the way that was posted here in someone’s moment of acting less than stellar, dismissive of you and your career choice, something like, “There’s a reason you’re a trucker…”
I want to thank you for being :: that man :: who stepped up and took :: that :: job, a damn hard one, being separated from family and friends, long hours and days on the road, skillfully navigating a huge and complex piece of machinery, making safety your first and primary focus in everything you do.
You bring us goods we need.
Your choices are noble.
Your work is noble.
I am the son of a trucker, and I know full well of what I say.
My apologies for the continuing conflict.
For the foreseeable future comments will only be allowed on the prayer thread while I pray and seek counsel about what to do with this site.
It’s all yours today.
FIRST!!!
Today on the Church Calendar is the Presentation of our Lord in the Temple – this is after Mary’s 40 days of purification.
The importance;
It’s the return of the Lord to the temple after a 450 yr absence.
It is the culmination of the 70 7s – sorry dispensationalists you have it wrong.
70×7 is 490
I have been saving this for Open Blogging because I couldn’t remember which thread it was on and I didn’t want to derail other threads.
So, my position is that a saved person can’t “lose” their salvation – they cannot sin it away, but they can do things to kill their own faith and walk away from it. Other say that is impossible – but I wonder how these verses are handled?
2 Tim 2:12 – “if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;”
Matt 10:33 – “but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.”
2 Tim is very clearly speaking of believers who will deny him.
Reuben – fish my previous comment out of moderation please.
Reuben,
I was not tying the 450 yr absence to the 70 7s
70 7s does indeed equal 490 – these are the exact number of days between the announcement to Zechariah that Elizabeth would be pregnant with John the Baptist and the arrival of Jesus in the temple.
Good morning beautiful blog family. Just wanted to say I have grown to love you all so very much, through many fires and prayer. The hard truth is my time here has come to a close. There is no scandal, no behind the scenes story, no drama. It’s just time for me to move on. Michael has become the greatest brother a girl could ever ask for, and the other mods have become family as well… You have all taught me, stretched me and tempered me…
Forever grateful,
Nomansapologist
There I got it out myself 🙂
I have been saving this for Open Blogging because I couldn’t remember which thread it was on and I didn’t want to derail other threads.
So, my position is that a saved person can’t “lose” their salvation – they cannot sin it away, but they can do things to kill their own faith and walk away from it. Other say that is impossible – but I wonder how these verses are handled?
2 Tim @ 2:12 – “if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;”
Matt @ 10:33 – “but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.”
2 Tim is very clearly speaking of believers who will deny him.
Bye Nomans =(
My intention wasn’t to derail the other thread. I responded to another post that I could not in good conscience let stand. I was then told I don’t like confrontation and so I spoke plainly and to the point.
I have for years now been a passive person when I post and to see a thread closed because I shared something that PALES in comparison to what routinely is posted here I am genuinely shocked.
If my comments are the standard then half the stuff on this blog should be moderated as well. I’d apologize but I’m not sure what there is to apologize for.
Nomans, I’ll miss seeing you here and will always have fond memories of meeting you in person and the shock of learning who I was talking to! God bless!
Nomans going will leave a big hole in the PhxP …
praying for those who have taken some below the belt hits here recently … i pray you consider and then ignore the source – if the PhxP is to survive as a rich forum for the Faith
E,
It’s ok.
With losing BrianD and Nomans the blog lost its heart and soul.
I just wanted to stop the conflict.
When I get home I will deal with it all.
BrianD and Nomans? uh…umm 🙁
Michael, I didn’t realize we lost BrianD as well. I can see how difficult that is as they have been strong and positive influences for so long on the blog. Thanks for the response.
I am sooo sorry to see Nomans go…and wish she would reconsider….I did not realize that BrianD left too, and wondered about the linkathon for this week. We will miss you Nomans. I could always count on your godly counsel in any of the disputes and you will be sorely missed.
BrianD, =(
😡
I too will miss Nomans and BrianD. I haven’t been around here much lately…only for the reason that in my personal life I have been in a job (since August) that is sucking the life out of me…have nothing left when I get home. Thankfully my contract is up the end of May and I look forward to getting my life back.
Michael, this blog has been a godsend for me. Though I don’t contribute much, please know how much I value your friendship and cherish those who contribute here.
BrianD too:-(
Nomans is a pure treasure. BrianD is the real deal.
I am sick as a dog today. Trying to sleep. Taking fish tank antibiotics to kill what I think is strep. I have some hard explaining to do tomorrow to our little Anglican church. They may or may not understand. I may be elected to a position I don’t want. My job was crazy, and then it all stopped. It seems that weeks and weeks of 50+ degree temperatures in the middle of the winter has made the calls stop coming in. I have been cut back to 32 hours a week. Many others have been laid off. I was thankful yesterday that I still had a job. Today I have nothing much to be happy about.
I am going to lay in bed tonight, and hopefully sleep. Whiskey may be my only hope of getting there.
Love each other for a minute, please.
I haven’t been posting much lately but still always reading along. Quite sad to see both Nomans and BrianD leaving. They meant a lot to this place and will be sorely missed.
Reuben, you and almost everyone who posts here is a treasure (sorry about the “almost” qualifier – but all i know is what i can read here) …
… i wonder if you all know what you have accomplished here? what the honesty and search for truth and grace has accomplished?
it is past time for me to move on, but not for any offenses to my person here, i’m not sure that i made that clear earlier – i’ll be lurking and praying for a good outcome to all this – may God keep the PhxP gang
I think this blog is of great value. It’s a place of sanity for us terminal sinners.
Otherwise we might be on drugs.
I ain’t goin’ anywhere. I’m as loyal as a tick.
I’m just poking my head in for a moment. Sick here as well…must be in the air.
Nomans brought a sense of grace to this place that will be deeply missed, and BrianD kept us aware of many outside our limited circles.
This place has changed so significantly over the last few years…for a variety of reasons. I think some of us have had a hard time finding our fit in the new dynamic. My involvement has become limited simply because of homeschooling and life babies and life being busy. This has continued to be a place of dialog and of prayer and of ministry, no matter what the latest dynamic has been. Praying for wisdom, especially for Michael, and that each of us finds our niche where we are fed and challenged and find friendships. Crazy the life this place has had…
I must have missed something, dont know why the other thread was locked
I’m just curious… what is the point of this blog? what has been the recent changes? There’s no place on the blog that we can go to find this.
TBH: I came over here one day because Alex hadn’t updated in weeks and I was clicking on all the links on his sidebar. It was rather humorous to see him and few others from his blog commenting.
I’ve always been welcomed at his blog, even when I sharply criticized him. He’s updating again, so maybe that’s where I’m meant to be and that’s where I’ll stay.
If Alex is the problem, well… then PxP does have a problem. Isn’t 1/4th of the readership from his blog? I’d suggest making it clear that you don’t want people from his blog to come over and Alex should remove this link from his site.
As for Alex, he’s his own person. Obviously he’s going to do what he wants. I accept him for what he is. But to say that he’s ruining the blog, or constantly tearing him down… well… he’s seems to be as much a part of the blog as Michael, MLD, Em, BrianD. That’s been my insight and I’ve only been here a couple of weeks.
What I think PxP is about:
1. Michael’s personal journal
2. Place to discuss theology, with a slant towards Calvinism and Lutheran.
3. Report about abuses about Calvary Chapel and other megachurches, usually due to misuse of power or funds.
4. Linkathon 🙁
Please add to this list. I’m curious why you are here.
Reuben: I forgot all about you. But that’s because I’m new here.
Reuben’s agree/disagree seems to be a big part of this blog.
BTW: I really enjoy this.
I’m here for the chicks.
I will use this opportunity to be the first serious one here and to issue a warning to Michael Newnham: God called you to speak His truth the way a man like Jeremiah was called. That means to do so effectively you will find it will be and should be a relatively lonely road if you refuse to compromise on the seriousness of what He has for you to say. If you choose instead to try to “make nice” with some of the wicked men God has called you to expose, you will find that while you are less physically lonely you are also less spiritually effective. Be encouraged knowing that if God calls you to be a Jeremiah then eternity will bring great rewards even if earth brings great trials….par for the course. I encourage you to stand firm to your original call. Read Jeremiah 15 and the criteria God gives him for being “a voice” that can speak for God. Stay away from spiritual lightweights, devour the Word of God and share what He gives you to share and see the purpose God had for your life while you were yet in your mother’s womb like Jeremiah did: Always persecuted by this world and the devil but always greatly honored by heaven.
@25
lol!!! old hippie. and some of us should be on drugs……..
Wow Michael… How did you make it so long without so much “godly” (little g intended) counsel?
I have learned so much from you Michael and as always, continue as I know God tells you. You certainly don’t need to be told by anyone here how to do what you do. Thank you Michael and kkep up the good work.
Fly,
Phoenix Preacher has been around a lot longer than Alex. He is part of the community, not the reason for it. He participates, as do we all, equally. He is not responsible for the readership, and there are those who have moved on for their various reasons, some checking in from time to time, freely participating in a commendable give & take environment.
Alex and I have had a season of sharp disagreements and now we are, thankfully, kind toward one another. I much prefer our kindness. I much prefer how he is working hard to step back and take a breath, and I, and everyone here continue to pray for a great and just outcome for him and his brother as they have their day in court.
A Voice,
Um, your post strikes me as one who is egging someone on to fight a battle you would like to be fighting but don’ have the moxy to bring it yourself to those whom you despise.
Perhaps you could cut the hyper spiritual mumbo-jumbo and prayerfully be supportive of Michael Newnham, and quit laying some grand guilt trip on him?
When God speaks to a man or woman they don’t need some external whipping boy who has not one shred of compassion beating the crap out of them.
Perhaps you might want to refamiliarize yourself with the ancient account of Job, and the many times elsewhere when someone comes along and brings a load of accusations. Follow The One who bestowed The Comfortor, and stop imitating The Accusor of The Bretheren, lest you yourself be found at odds with the very heart of Jesus toward Michael.
How dare you try to shame a man who is simply seeking to love and raise his child, shine in his career, and be true to the still small voice of The Holy Spirit who is producing a heart of love in him that your goading never could?
Thank you G~ you said it much better than I did. It is very frustrating when someone comes here and has all the answers yet doesn’t know Michael or his heart. Your response was gracious and to the point.
Surprised A voice didn’t tell Michael to lay on his side for 390 days too.
Nomans and BrianD are wonderful people who have given far more to this ‘place’ than they ever could have received. While I’ll continue to frequent these pages, I’ll never contribute in the manner they both have. I wish them both great joy and blessing moving forward and hope they’ll pop in occasionally to keep us up to date.
I use to “think” that way A Voice, then I walked into unit 32 at the developmental center and all that went out the window like a puff in the wind. You want to stay the course Michael, stay with the “mud people” like many of us are seen as, much better company.
Purpose of PP?
To be an an enclave for the hard bitten, for those with a nagging, gnawing ache for genuineness. And a time-earned aversion to manipulation, to artificiality, and to personal ambition masquerading as servanthood.
Who believe Christianity can produce lives that are real and fulfilling. Who may still have no idea how that happens.
Not to speak truth to power, but to speak the truth about the misuse of power and help us all better recognize that and deal with it.
PP Vet,
I saw your post on the way to bed…and if we ever came close to what you wrote, I thank God for it.
Thank you…
Thank you all for the comments. Please keep them coming. I’m just want to make sure I’m on the same page as this blog. And if I’m not, please let me know. I’m not doing it intentionally.
When I said the “first serious one on here” I only meant in the posts for 2/2/2013. Michael, I wasn’t trying to egg you on or beat you down. What I said to you wasn’t casually or callously intended. I am a stranger to you and in no way do I have the platform you have or any intention to tell you what to do. Consider my comment to be an exhortation and if not, then at least know that no offense was intended. To be honored by God is truly the highest honor possible and that was intended as an encouragement to you because as you stand in strength, though the world around you may seem to be shaking, the Rock on which you stand never will. That I know from experience. I hit a sore spot with some people on here although truly the comment was intended for you and I am sorry if any shame seemed attached to the comment. We have no reason for shame, we are in Christ. Exhortations and even admonishment and even rebukes (my comment was not a rebuke though) should not cause shame because our lives are hidden in Him and He bore all our shame on the Cross. That being said, I pray that my comment will serve its intended purpose, the full of which I do not even know. Though this is my first time posting here I have prayed for you in the past and will continue to do so. Thank you for all that you do.
A voice my comment was not meant as a “rebuke” etc. It is just a fact in my life, I had it all figured out, not saying you think this way it is just me.
“We have no reason for shame”
Of the many decades I have spent in the corporation this is the gnawing tick that drives home, shame. Always ashamed of some fleeting thought while helping someone because it may loose me my reward. I look and see a beautiful women and smile and it is equivalent of raping her. Some guy cuts me off in traffic and I get frustrating it is the equivalent of offing him with a bullet to the head. Asking questions of the leadership of the faith based group, was the same as “rebellion” which is the same as witch craft. I knew some witches back in the day, often they would give me a cold cup of water when the faith family I was in could not spare a drop. I would make a lousy witch, I dont buy incantations and magic spells. I wont continue that rant out of respect.
I grew tired of the thought police so I dropped off the raydar and out of their universe. It is not the same universe I live in. I get back on the grid once in a while, here is one of the places I raise my head. But I am off the grid in the real world outside of a little community of “new ager” type folks who actually know the bible quite well, in English and the original languages. I never wanted God’s honor, power, respect or any other such trivialities, I just wanted Him to love those I work with. After 30 + years in the system I have come to understand that is a totally unreasonable expectation.
I do wish you the very best.
Brian I wish you the very best too. We truly have no reason for shame. Jesus truly paid it all even if people we may have viewed as authority figures in the past claimed otherwise. They were, are and always will be wrong to do so. Realizing that gives us a huge advantage in maintaining our peace in Christ and our sanity when confronted with rejection or abuse. We have no shame. Jesus was literally physically defiled and demoralized in every way possible on our behalf. No one can make us feel shame at this point unless we let them. We need to dig our heels in and remaining rooted and grounded in the Word so we know what is of God and what is not so that people claiming authority cannot confuse us because they will try to constantly….but we don’t have to let them. Many times we perish because of a lack of knowledge. Those who desire to live a godly life WILL suffer persecution. That is inescapable. The problem is when the persecution comes from people we think of as authorities in the things of God, we don’t know how to process it because either we don’t know enough of what the Word says about how God views these people or we don’t believe enough of what the Word says. I recognized this truth very quickly about myself and did everything I could to remedy it. I chose to study His Word and listen to what He had to say when I prayed about it as I read, I let the Word search my own heart and then I went one step further…I chose to believe that if there is conflict between what people say and even what I think and what the Word says…then the Word is right and the human viewpoint is wrong! It wasn’t easy. I started to recognize that I had believed a whole lot of things that were truly just pop-culture or Christianese but which the Word never promised or even suggested. The peace I have now is real. It doesn’t depend on perfect circumstances because if it did I would be a wreck.
I have to admit it took some investment and discipline to choose to truly dig into God’s Word for myself with my heart asking Him for wisdom at every sentence, but the fruit was peace. I can say with great confidence and a smile on my face that in this world I will have and have had trouble but I can be of good cheer because He has overcome the world! I accept that as fact like I accept a lot of other difficult truths from the Word as fact, not because I have anything in my flesh nature that even remotely wants to believe this, but because my spirit has grown stronger than my flesh nature because I feed it the meat of the Word constantly. So I am able to “get over myself” pretty quickly cause the Word is always correcting any carnality immediately. It requires discipline, but it pays off. I remember living with wobbly ideas on what the Word said about certain things and I look back and know that I would have benefited if I could simply have been able to say “No that is wrong, that is not what God thinks about this or that because here is what He actually says in His Word” . That would have shut the mouth of all the charlatans I encountered in my journey!
I have no shame Brian and neither should you. Jesus bore it all! Don’t listen to any foolish assertions from past faulty authority figures saying otherwise. We can receive correction without shame or offense the same way we can receive encouragement. God chastens His sons and even when the chastening is not pleasant it bears good fruit. Trust me when I say that God’s honor is an amazing thing to have and of far more value than the honor of man! The fear of man brings a snare but when we trust in the Lord we are safe. It may not seem that way to anyone around us but on the inside we know the truth and we have peace and we can see eternity. If we weren’t people who believed in eternity a blog like this would not even exist.
All the best.
I love this community and I am thankful for the “friends” I have here. Michael you are loved and respected by so many here and we applaud you in doing what you believe God is calling you to. Whatever that may be. I am very sad to see Nomans and BrianD leave. I miss Xenia, and others who have left. Change is hard, but life is full of changes and this community is alive. God’s will be done. You all have enriched my life, challenged me and help me grow in Christ. Michael, I pray that you will have peace in which ever way the Lord will direct you with this blog. His will be done.
” We truly have no reason for shame.” I appreciate that but beg to disagree, from day one shame, dread, horror, fear, loss, and so on was the common theme of the “good news” I was exposed to. I still deal with the idea that God hates me personally and cant wait for the day my heart beats its last so He can exact vengeance on my soul for the sins I have committed. I understand what you are saying but from the cheap seats, where what you ay cant apply, it is not good news, and it never has been.
I agree with “A Voice” and I’m glad the person shared that. I am very disappointed with the callous and muted response on the CS thread from many long-timers. When folks see evil and simply don’t care anymore…that’s a bad sign. It was the death of the true PhxP.
We’re at a crossroads again on here. I’m a constant, you know I want waffle and blow with the wind.
I volunteer to be a Moderator and in that position as a sort of leader it would change the dynamic some for me and I would feel more a sense of responsibility to hold back as I actually believe that leaders are called to a stricter standard.
I volunteer to write some over here and administer the “rules” without prejudice, even if it is Michael himself.
The true PhxP needs to rise from the ashes of that Chuck Smith thread. The Chuck Smith article was good work.
Michael, you’ve got a choice. If you waffle now, if I lose the lawsuit, you will get sued, that’s the word on the street. Heck, they may even sue you anyways b/c you are showing so much weakness and they thrive on that.
Showing weakness and trying to pretend you didn’t do all the stuff you’ve already done with regards to CC is blood in the water to the sharks. They will devour you and teach you a lesson and your “friends” on here will probably tell you you had it coming and then run for the hills. Some of these cats on here are fickle. I’m telling you it’s too late for you to say you aren’t the Phoenix Preacher any longer. They’ll get you and they’ll make sure you stay down for good. Deep down you fear that and it’s too late to waffle now.
I’ll always be there for you for the fight. I’ll always care. I know you agree with me that there is a major Problem with CC and I know you like it when I take the fight to them.
I have no idea who “A Voice” is, but I think that exhortation is from God and you better heed it. I have a sense about these things.
What did I just read? People don’t react how you expect them to react and here comes Alex to save the day. Is this going to be a calvarychapelabuse franchise?
I am just gonna throw this out there ’cause I have been thinking it. Could be wrong but, still doesn’t make me not think it.
Alex comes here and stirs stuff up. Effectively abandons his own blog, I mean look at the comments sections there, how often does he even comment there? It is mainly a cheerleader section for him anyways. But, his people come over here and make it their personal task to defend him. Granted, he has played the “good” boy for a week or so. But I smell a rat and I think this was the goal all along. I really think he has been pissed and plotting and scheming to create chaos so he can save the day and find an extra outlet for his “crusade”. Am I wrong? Maybe, but my BS meter goes wild with Alex in a thread. This isn’t doubting his story of abuse, just his motives. Everyone can see that it has gone from justice with him to a personal crusade of vengeance.
I really apologize if anyone is offended by this but it is what I think.
My advice, which isn’t worth much, don’t let Alex get his greedy little paws in here. You will regret it.
Michael, fight in the way God has given you and as you are able physically, but don’t think that just because you can’t see results that they aren’t happening. Or that results are what was needed in the first place. And this is just an example, but the prophets usually told people what was wrong and how to change, but things still did not go the way “we” want, but they did go God’s way.
As for me, I need a break to write on a book. I will be praying for all and following along.
“We’re at a crossroads again on here. I’m a constant, you know I want [sic] waffle and blow with the wind.”
Alex’ focus is on exposure of pastoral abuse with a goal of payback for his wounded earthly family – right or wrong? i am not to say …
on the other hand, Michael’s focus is on exposure of abuse with a goal of healing and restoration to the wounded of God’s family – the proof is in the content of years of texts and comments
there is a difference between Alex and the man he is addressing here – the man he is using, consciously or unconsciously, as a pretense to expand his own audience
the Phxp has taken the risk, standing naked and exposed moving on to higher ground in a defense of God’s integrity, His truth and His reputation and that’s the visible difference, the rest is known only to God, Himself … but there is a difference and it’s an important one
Derek, you’re wrong.
It’s a crusade against abuse and corruption in the church.
corner, not payback, exposure “expose them” per the bible and justice and accountability which is sorely lacking in the church and CC.
Not here to “save the day” but if Michael is short on Mods, I’m willing to help.
I do agree there is a difference between the blogs. One is pretty straightforward in its goal of “expose” and “warn” and “publicly rebuke” etc per the bible and to lobby for reforms and to give victims of abuse a voice and validation.
The other is some sort of mash up that is hard to pin down to what it is and what the rules are etc.
The Chuck Smith story examples the fact that the PhxP is still lurking in there and wanting to come out. Again, I agree with “A Voice”, it is Michael’s calling. Quit making this about “me” and focus on the issues and topics. I’m tired of stating my case and then everyone focusing on me and then getting blamed for your focus and responding to error and slander.
If I was a Mod I would moderate Derek’s comment as it is full of slander and attacking and I’ve been told that is against the rules..but I rarely if ever see the rules applied equally when the attack is against some folks while others are protected. That’s just calling a spade a spade and it should be dealt with.
And if I get moderated, that is what will happen to you all. A word of warning. Tyrants can’t help but be tyrants.
Michael, when disagreement happens sometimes it can be good and make people think. I don’t think you want a moderator who will make sure that all voices agree with him. I am pretty sure he does that at his own blog and will do it here. He likes to bitvh and bring up an “unfair standard”, but he makes the situation where people don’t want to hear him.
That is my final word here for a while. I will be following the blog, because you have a lot of blessing in your words Michael.
It is 6:30 in the flipping morning. Quiet.
Derek, I think the history on here proves who the target of Moderation is (though Doug Gilliland got nuked before me). I can’t recall hardly any (if any) instances where others have been modded for similar or worse comments and changing topics to focus on me just for me making a comment etc etc. There is a history of a double standard. I accept it, I just call it like it is. I’m no victim, I fight back every single time and I don’t take it.
Good morning Reuben. I’ll end with that comment today. Gotta go get some work done anyway and then spend some Family Day and Super Bowl….woohoo! Go Niners!
Alex,
“Derek, I think the history on here proves who the target of Moderation is (though Doug Gilliland got nuked before me).”
I was kicked off this blog before Doug – but, after a 3 month banishment I came to my senses and decided to play by the rules.
I am with Derek – what is your underlying motive here – why don’t you just do what you want to do over at your blog? If we are a bunch of confused misfits, why do you even care?
“There is a history of a double standard. I accept it, I just call it like it is. I’m no victim, ”
And why is it that when we make statements that you don’t like, you do not respect them as “I call it as it is.”?
My opinion of what happens in CC world is just as worthwhile as yours.
Michael, don’t take Alex’s bait – no one is going to sue you. Here is Alex’s goal – either he is in charge of the PP or he wants it out of existence.
This is just getting all to weird for me. I’m gonna fade off into the ethernet too. You all take care.
Alex, it is a coward who would wait for me to be gone then unroll this less than benevolent agenda before this beautiful community. Stop mischaracterizing my time here as a moderator, stating I have been.unfair, and stop speaking death over my friend Michael.
Freedom means freedom of association, as all of us who have ever been shunned and manipulated by toxic religion and relationships can attest.
The beauty and genius of this place that Michael hosts has always been the dialog and discussion, not the exposé or the supposed rallying of the troops. It’s as each of us has dialoged, participated in the give and take that we’ve come to learn and develop a fondness between us that is uniquely the community we know here.
We have each found our voices, found that we have lived in self imposed chains because someone tried to intimidate us, silence us, threaten us. These chains were purely illusions once we began to speak about how we feel, and our struggles in the face of our abusers and as we dare to tell them “enough”!
I, for one, cannot yet fully fathom how I allowed the influence of fundamentalism to keep me down, and I have no one but myself to blame, and everyone here, especially Michael, to thank.
Scott,
I read something along the way that was posted here in someone’s moment of acting less than stellar, dismissive of you and your career choice, something like, “There’s a reason you’re a trucker…”
I want to thank you for being :: that man :: who stepped up and took :: that :: job, a damn hard one, being separated from family and friends, long hours and days on the road, skillfully navigating a huge and complex piece of machinery, making safety your first and primary focus in everything you do.
You bring us goods we need.
Your choices are noble.
Your work is noble.
I am the son of a trucker, and I know full well of what I say.
Thank you, Scott.
The empty cup – no matter how much you pour into it, it is never full.
My apologies for the continuing conflict.
For the foreseeable future comments will only be allowed on the prayer thread while I pray and seek counsel about what to do with this site.