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  1. Michael says:

    I don’t believe that current events have anything to do with eschatology or measure the nearness of His coming…every generation has had reasons to think they did. He’ll return when it’s time…His time…

  2. Em says:

    Every generation should anticipate His return, though… I seem to remember a parable regarding the master returning and finding his servants not doing their jobs….

    I was a kid when WW2 was in progress and some thought the Nazis were the devil making his big move… was that a wrong ponder?

    I used to believe that there was no way for our adversaries to take out this whole continent.. Now it is a real possibility by at least two different attacks.. Will it happen? I don’t know, of course, i dont

    Dropping all responsibility, running to the top of the hill waiting to be lifted off the planet IS unBiblical, however. ?

  3. Michael says:

    America could disappear tomorrow and it still wouldn’t be a sign of His coming. We can hope in every age for the return of Christ, but we can’t know when that will be.

  4. Em says:

    Michael, i agree that “only the Father knows” the day and hour of Christ’s return..
    Could America disappear tomorrow? Yes. Would it be a sign of the approaching end? Dunno But then we wouldn’t be here to ponder the question… ?

  5. Jean says:

    The opening of the first four seals in Revelation 6 provide us with John’s vision of tribulations that are common to human experience in this fallen world, during the period from the ascension of Christ to His second coming.

    These tribulations and sufferings, which are under the sovereign will of God, depict the ravaging of the human race by wars among nations, tyranny, lawlessness, famine, pestilence and death, which will occur in one form and place or another during the millennium.

    This vision should not be read in isolation from the last three seals, and the beautiful interlude placed between the sixth and seventh seals, which provides comfort to the the church militant and the church triumphant.

  6. bob1 says:

    I really like what NT Wright said in one of his books. He seems to believe that “this life”
    is (like) purgatory. It makes a lot of sense — look at all the tribulations and sufferings
    that Jean referred to.

  7. Michael says:

    I hope never to teach Revelation again.
    Outside of some basic tenets, the book makes little sense.
    No book suffers more violence at the hands of verse by verse teachers.
    I like Wrights take and Jean’s is as good as any…

  8. Jtk says:

    Honestly, reading Revelation in 1 or 2 sittings sure beats a slow approach. And if one gets in a kerfuffle with legal powers, the book sure comes alive.

    Until those who are wrong admit it, in end times stuff, I’m done hearing it.

  9. Jean says:

    I like Revelation because IMO it provides Christians with the clearest, most explicit and detailed critique in the NT of the abuse of human power for political, economic and religious purposes. Here is one commentator’s summary:

    “Some readers may wonder whether Revelation opposes all that human culture has produced, since the author tells of the demise of political institutions, trade, and social life. Other NT writers are more positive about human government, but John sees how the wealth of the few is paid for by the misery of the many, and how the security of some is obtained by the deaths of others. At the same time, John offers a contrasting picture of community life that is God-serving. The harpists fall silent in Babylon, but they continue to play for God and the Lamb. Bride and groom may not celebrate under God’s judgment, but they will find reason to celebrate at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Lamps are extinguished in Babylon, but in the New Jerusalem the presence of God serves as its abiding lamp. Rhetorically, the negative images alienate readers from what Babylon represents, while the positive images call them to a different future.”

    – Rev. Dr. Craig R. Koester, Revelation (The Anchor Yale Bible; Vol. 38A 2014). p. 725 [citations omitted]

  10. Michael says:

    “I like Revelation because IMO it provides Christians with the clearest, most explicit and detailed critique in the NT of the abuse of human power for political, economic and religious purposes. ”

    Agreed…best read along with the OT prophets…

  11. Jean says:

    John’s visions have so much in common with the visions of the OT prophets that his readers would easily place John within the tradition of Israel’s prophets.

    Where John adds much to the contributions of the prophets IMO is that he writes to Christian communities which live within and under the political, legal and religious dominion of the beast. His message to them addresses how they navigate that environment. Do they participate and prosper, at the expense of God’s judgment? Do they reject and suffer, while receiving God’s commendation and comfort? How do John’s message and his contrasting visions inform our churches and our individual lives?

  12. Duane Arnold says:

    We participate and prosper at the peril of our souls…

  13. Steve says:

    Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
    Revelation 1:3 NIV

  14. Michael says:


    I’m thinking of making a new rule.
    That rule is that if you post a verse you need to say why you posted it and what it means in your interpretation…

  15. Steve says:

    I won’t do it justice to try to elaborate on my interpretation of the verse. However, I do believe that the Bible interprets the Bible. So in some sense, I do feel the first chapter and in particular this verse is helpful in understanding the rest of revelation. I’ll let the verse stand alone without interpretation from me.

  16. Em says:

    Michael @ 9:51 am – FWIW
    Sounds like a great challenge

    I do have a bit of a problem with those who say that the book of Revelation is simply a random collection of what the Church can expect through time – nothing more. It may be that, but…
    Familiar with process flowcharting, some years ago i found that the book flows logically without any hitches – coincidence? Don’t think so.. But then i am an evangelical fundy. ?

  17. Nathan Priddis says:

    This is question sorta eschatological, in a glancing blow fashion:

    I am seeing online use of gematria (Kabbalahist) utilizing names and dates, but mixed with Strong’s reference numbers. These are individuals clearly within the Pre-Trib Dispensational boundries. The use is always portrayed as evidence of impending Tribulation and Rapture. This confuses me.

    I have been unable to locate any origin point, historical developement or proponent/s. Its as though it just fell off the turnip truck, and here it is. Any thoughts on gematria sources? Has anyone encountered this?

  18. Nathan Priddis says:

    Oops. A slight editing problem in my first sentence.

  19. Michael says:


    I avoid pretrib sites like the coronavirus, but when I see weird I assume Chuck Missler was somewhere behind it…

  20. Kevin H says:

    “And a young man followed him, with nothing but a linen cloth about his body. And they seized him, but he left the linen cloth and ran away naked.”
    Mark 14:51‭-‬52 ESV

    Interpretation – It’s a better idea to wear clothes as opposed to a sheet.

  21. Kevin H says:

    Oops, I forgot the why I posted it part. With that said, I posted it so that I could give an interpretation. 🙂

  22. Michael says:

    Sheets are sinful apparel… 🙂

  23. Kevin H says:

    In gematria, sheet probably equates to 666.

  24. Michael says:

    I thought Gematria was the name of one of Missler’s kids…

  25. Kevin H says:

    I think Gematria was the middle child, right between Nephilim and Extraterrestrial.

  26. Kevin H says:

    I prophesy that if the Kansas City Chiefs win the Super Bowl then Andy Reid will eat a cheeseburger.

    I also prophesy that if the Kansas City Chiefs lose the Super Bowl then Andy Reid will eat a cheeseburger.

  27. Michael says:


    Amazing…I had that same vision.

  28. Kevin H says:

    Well then, we are validated. No one shall question us or touch God’s anointed.

  29. bob1 says:

    At first I was hoping Michael’s link was a parody.

    Unfortunately, no.

    I think nonsense is at all-time high in parts of Christendom…

  30. Em says:

    Michael and Kevin… thanks for the levitation… err levity. ?

  31. Nathan Priddis says:

    Michael. Im intrigued you mentioned Missler. Was it in jest or serious? I would have said your wrong, a year ago. But I now believe Missler was more influencial then I previously thought. And, yes I have heard some very odd people referencing him.

    Missler seems to have heen an important conduit for bringing forward Bullinger’s writings on the Mazzoroth into the 2000’s. I doubt many people would have read Bullinger on their own.

    It now feels that astro theology is mixing with Dispensationalism and christian Kabbalist ideas. I wonder if any of this is connected to the Missler/Kim Clement link up?

  32. Michael says:


    I honestly don’t know.
    I don’t have the time or energy anymore to track down all the bizarre pretrib stuff…but that’s where I’d start.

  33. Kevin H says:

    OK, I’m ready for revival!

  34. Michael says:



  35. MM says:

    Best statement on this thread:

    “ We participate and prosper at the peril of our souls…”

    Thanks Duane.

    Okay I don’t get it, why are so many people obsessed with eschatology and yet are completely clueless about the rear of Scripture, especially what Jesus is recorded as saying.

    Should that be far more important than having the “get em God” mentality?

    “Blessed are those mourn…”

    Interpretation via Michael’s new rule; if one really loves God we will mourn over the destruction brought to the lives of His creation (see quote from Duane).

  36. MM says:


    “the rest of…” not “rear of…” but that would work too.

  37. Kevin H says:

    Michael, our standing as prophets is unquestionably verifiable.

  38. Michael says:

    I knew that… 🙂

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