Am I the only one that thinks China is lying in their daily report of cases? They have reported only double digits of new cases for many days. It is not credible IMO. I don’t have facts and I don’t see anything very useful about it but how can those numbers be correct?
If they are correct than I am even more concerned about the ongoing narratives that China has something very sinister in their manipulation of these things.
They have the wealth and the hold on the means of production and the dependency of Western markets in their hands. The combination is nearly unfathomable in its potential for malice.
The Western lust for cheap goods has become the trojan horse of our corporate existence.
It seems there are several of our neighbors who don’t believe there is a pandemic. Two ladies that live next door to one another have been almost face to face talking for over a half hour. Their children are very close to them. I’m at a loss….
China’s reporting is not inconsistent with the reporting from other countries such as S. Korea, Singapore and Taiwan, which have implemented strict measures. It’s the choice of a community to sacrifice in the short term for preservation of a community in the long term.
Bureaucracy = the only hope that our country can overcome this pandemic without a catastrophic loss of life and damage to our economy.
Bureaucracy = men and women who are working tirelessly to protect our families from loss of life, access to medical care, and food and other staples. They are scientists, doctors, researchers, procurement specialists, logistics specialists, foreign service professionals, law enforcement professionals, etc. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ and they are our parents, siblings, children and grandchildren.
“Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.” (Rm. 3:31)
Christians do not uphold the law as the means of our justification before God, but as God’s will for our lives before our neighbors.
Right now, God’s servants, our magistrates and governing officials, are promulgating laws and decries in the fight against the coronavirus for the preservation of life. We personally may not like some of the laws and decries, we may not all personally agree with their efficacy, but we are called to uphold them. Upholding them is a good work which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Countries may be accurately reporting numbers of confirmed infections, but because not everyone gets tested, the numbers may be much less than the number of people infected.
Definitely donāt believe China.
They neither respect human rights, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, freedom of speech nor freedom of the press.
And they are responsible for this mess.
And they are responsible and encouraged wet markets. Have you seen those?
“It seems there are several of our neighbors who donāt believe there is a pandemic. Two ladies that live next door to one another have been almost face to face talking for over a half hour. Their children are very close to them. Iām at a lossā¦.”
Why would you actually care?
Do either of them have the COVID-19 or been exposed to it at some other venue? If so maybe we should not rat out or “social shame” our neighbors.I think this fits under the 9th commandment and frankly (even Calvin has an opinion about it) may be applicable in this case.
In my State they have set up a phone number (311) and encouraged people to rat out the neighbors if behaviors are contrary to the ones recommend or ordered in the lockdown.
Personally I compare this to what our scripture teaches us; first go to them if you see someone sinning…
I will not turn in my neighbors nor think poorly of them if they are closer than 6 feet (my State’s standard).
I feel if we treat others as adults, most of them will rise to the occasion.
“…Hence the legitimate observance of this precept consists in employing the tongue in the maintenance of truth, so as to promote both the good name and the prosperity of our neighbour. The equity of this is perfectly clear. For if a good name is more precious than riches, a man, in being robbed of his good name, is no less injured than if he were robbed of his goods; while, in the latter case, false testimony is sometimes not less injurious than rapine committed by the hand.”
How easy is it for us in the time of crisis to either forget to throw out God’s instructions on how to live in His Kingdom.
Yes the “shaming” thing really bugs me.
“Online shaming is a form of Internet vigilantism in which targets are publicly humiliated for actions done privately or without wanting intended public broadcast using technology like social and new media. …”
It is a shame that folks don’t trust the warnings we are getting… I don’t think that it has been made clear that this virus originated in animals, slightly different composition and the human immune system isn’t triggered by its presence…
If i were a healthy twenty something, my concern would be infecting my diabetic or HIV infected neighbor… terrible way to find that you have a compromised immune system
A little caution and common sense should be all it takes…
I confess that i got in big “heck,” as my kids used to say, for going grocery shopping a couple days ago. .. “Mom you don’t realize how long this bug lives on those packages!” Weeell, i used hand sanitizer. . š
God keep all here safe and close
I see by Jean’s observation on bureaucracy that he hasn’t had much experience with them. Of course there are hard working honest people there, but it is a form of governing that has little accountability in our nation and promotes exploitation and dishonest opportunists… But we see what we want to see until it hits us in the face…
Bureaucracy=when you’re not smart enough or wise enough to realize
that modern life entails lots of layering and nuance. So you make
up dubious assertions not based on much fact.
If you can only manage checkers, chess will seem incomprehensible.
No, I do not believe the U.S. government because I can recount lies it has told.
I would not trust this President as far as I can throw him and I can’t even begin to lift him.
Locally, I have numerous people I know working on the front lines and I believe what they say. not what the county says.
āIt seems there are several of our neighbors who donāt believe there is a pandemic. Two ladies that live next door to one another have been almost face to face talking for over a half hour. Their children are very close to them. Iām at a lossā¦.ā
“Why would you actually care?”
I would care because it belies a carelessness that could end up killing someone else.
That’s why.
Right now, in NYC, the father and mother of a dear friend of mine are dying. Argue about the numbers, blast the political side you wish, but this is real and needs to be taken seriously. Blame can be parceled out in due time, but now is a time to pray, to mourn and to comfort ….
Before you jump to conclusions let me ask a few questions.
1. Do you know if your neighbors are being careless or reckless in a way that would bring danger to others?
2. How do you intend to handle what you observe?
3. If you believe they are being careless and endangering others, how, in a biblically led way, will you help them see the error in their ways?
4. If you do nothing are you too being careless?
5. Does calling the hot line or social shaming accomplish things correctly or is that a sin and cause others to or continue in sin?
Things are never clear cut and itās really easy to make bold statements on a blog.
Is the pandemic serious? Yes it is and there is far more at stake than just āsaving lives.ā If we arenāt learning something about ourselves, our relationship with others and God, then itās just vanity.
bob1, i am actually pretty good at chess. .š
Modern life? It is what it is…. But that does not mean it is an improvement… Layering and nuance are not new news…
I am quite willing, however, to let you fellas construct your own layering and nuance… š but don’t ignore accountability.
God keep
I’m just not that spiritual.
When someone violated the “six foot rule” in the pharmacy line I was polite the first time I backed them off…the second time was not polite at all.
Yes, this is about saving lives, first and foremost those of our medical workers and then the rest of us.
I’ll spare everyone the rest of the rant…
Dr. Duane, i pray God strengthen your friend and his family now and i pray for a miracle of grace in finding a successful treatment for this normal virus
Same thing you were doing in the grocery store… š
I’m doing all the absolutely necessary going out for two homes.
I’m the most disposable and by far the meanest…we are really trying to lock everything down to where I just use drive throughs and pick up service.
Getting closer…just as the numbers are really busting out here.
I had to transfer moms meds to my pharmacy that has a drive through
MM, I seem to have really hit a raw nerve with you. I shared what I did because it scares me as to what could result in illness or death. Since you have no idea who they are why get so hot and bothered? As this pandemic is so serious I simply stated what I have been seeing a lot of. You taking so much time to trash me is quite sad.
Calling 311 is a bit much. Here in the Bay Area, where shelter in place was ordered a wrk before the governor ordered it for the entire state, they closed hiking parks due to the crowds. I rode my bike to the nearest municipal park today and they removed the swings from the playground. Playgrounds are closed. I had taken my kids there twice last week after rains and no one was there. In certain areas, people weren’t following rules, thus the shutdowns.
I’m going back to work Monday. I’ll have a paper in case I’m stopped by the cops which is unlikely.
I don’t like our governor, but it’s the right thing to do. NY is becoming a mess. CA hopefully won’t because we got in front of it a little.
I completely agree with ERunner. There is way too many people ignoring the social distancing rules. My wife and three of my sons, plus my sister and her husband, all work in large retail establishments, and thus are on the front lines providing essential services. They see people each day casually congregating, bringing their entire families shopping, hanging out to shoot the breeze. It’s infuriating to me because it increases the danger to my family members. I really don’t give a rip about peoples’ feelings about being called out for being stupid and endangering others. And why such a focus by Christians saved by grace and given liberty from the Law on perfectly fulfilling the jot and tittle? I don’t know.
Thanks for those words Mike. I hope and pray you and yours come through this healthy and experience the peace of God as we all learn to live in a new reality.
It’s all yours today….
Am I the only one that thinks China is lying in their daily report of cases? They have reported only double digits of new cases for many days. It is not credible IMO. I don’t have facts and I don’t see anything very useful about it but how can those numbers be correct?
If they are correct than I am even more concerned about the ongoing narratives that China has something very sinister in their manipulation of these things.
They have the wealth and the hold on the means of production and the dependency of Western markets in their hands. The combination is nearly unfathomable in its potential for malice.
The Western lust for cheap goods has become the trojan horse of our corporate existence.
What am I missing? Do you believe China? Why?
I do not believe China….or America…
“The Western lust for cheap goods has become the trojan horse of our corporate existence. ” amen – worth repeating
To believe any bloated bureaucracy is not wise… Bureaucracy = buck passing and other chicanery
FWIW don’t know how credible, but Breitbart reports that 21+ million cell phone users have disappeared in China….. ? ? ?
It seems there are several of our neighbors who don’t believe there is a pandemic. Two ladies that live next door to one another have been almost face to face talking for over a half hour. Their children are very close to them. I’m at a loss….
China’s reporting is not inconsistent with the reporting from other countries such as S. Korea, Singapore and Taiwan, which have implemented strict measures. It’s the choice of a community to sacrifice in the short term for preservation of a community in the long term.
Bureaucracy = the only hope that our country can overcome this pandemic without a catastrophic loss of life and damage to our economy.
Bureaucracy = men and women who are working tirelessly to protect our families from loss of life, access to medical care, and food and other staples. They are scientists, doctors, researchers, procurement specialists, logistics specialists, foreign service professionals, law enforcement professionals, etc. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ and they are our parents, siblings, children and grandchildren.
It is written:
“Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.” (Rm. 3:31)
Christians do not uphold the law as the means of our justification before God, but as God’s will for our lives before our neighbors.
Right now, God’s servants, our magistrates and governing officials, are promulgating laws and decries in the fight against the coronavirus for the preservation of life. We personally may not like some of the laws and decries, we may not all personally agree with their efficacy, but we are called to uphold them. Upholding them is a good work which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Countries may be accurately reporting numbers of confirmed infections, but because not everyone gets tested, the numbers may be much less than the number of people infected.
Michael,
You donāt believe the US numbers?!
Definitely donāt believe China.
They neither respect human rights, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, freedom of speech nor freedom of the press.
And they are responsible for this mess.
And they are responsible and encouraged wet markets. Have you seen those?
“It seems there are several of our neighbors who donāt believe there is a pandemic. Two ladies that live next door to one another have been almost face to face talking for over a half hour. Their children are very close to them. Iām at a lossā¦.”
Why would you actually care?
Do either of them have the COVID-19 or been exposed to it at some other venue? If so maybe we should not rat out or “social shame” our neighbors.I think this fits under the 9th commandment and frankly (even Calvin has an opinion about it) may be applicable in this case.
In my State they have set up a phone number (311) and encouraged people to rat out the neighbors if behaviors are contrary to the ones recommend or ordered in the lockdown.
Personally I compare this to what our scripture teaches us; first go to them if you see someone sinning…
I will not turn in my neighbors nor think poorly of them if they are closer than 6 feet (my State’s standard).
I feel if we treat others as adults, most of them will rise to the occasion.
Calvin on the 9th Commandment.
“…Hence the legitimate observance of this precept consists in employing the tongue in the maintenance of truth, so as to promote both the good name and the prosperity of our neighbour. The equity of this is perfectly clear. For if a good name is more precious than riches, a man, in being robbed of his good name, is no less injured than if he were robbed of his goods; while, in the latter case, false testimony is sometimes not less injurious than rapine committed by the hand.”
http://www.vor.org/rbdisk/html/institutes/2_08.htm#2.8.47
How easy is it for us in the time of crisis to either forget to throw out God’s instructions on how to live in His Kingdom.
Yes the “shaming” thing really bugs me.
“Online shaming is a form of Internet vigilantism in which targets are publicly humiliated for actions done privately or without wanting intended public broadcast using technology like social and new media. …”
How easy is it for us in the time of crisis to either forget and or throw out Godās instructions on how to live in His Kingdom.
This is better, left out the ” and or.”
It is a shame that folks don’t trust the warnings we are getting… I don’t think that it has been made clear that this virus originated in animals, slightly different composition and the human immune system isn’t triggered by its presence…
If i were a healthy twenty something, my concern would be infecting my diabetic or HIV infected neighbor… terrible way to find that you have a compromised immune system
A little caution and common sense should be all it takes…
I confess that i got in big “heck,” as my kids used to say, for going grocery shopping a couple days ago. .. “Mom you don’t realize how long this bug lives on those packages!” Weeell, i used hand sanitizer. . š
God keep all here safe and close
I see by Jean’s observation on bureaucracy that he hasn’t had much experience with them. Of course there are hard working honest people there, but it is a form of governing that has little accountability in our nation and promotes exploitation and dishonest opportunists… But we see what we want to see until it hits us in the face…
Very well stated, Jean.
Let me add:
Bureaucracy=when you’re not smart enough or wise enough to realize
that modern life entails lots of layering and nuance. So you make
up dubious assertions not based on much fact.
If you can only manage checkers, chess will seem incomprehensible.
Jtk,
No, I do not believe the U.S. government because I can recount lies it has told.
I would not trust this President as far as I can throw him and I can’t even begin to lift him.
Locally, I have numerous people I know working on the front lines and I believe what they say. not what the county says.
āIt seems there are several of our neighbors who donāt believe there is a pandemic. Two ladies that live next door to one another have been almost face to face talking for over a half hour. Their children are very close to them. Iām at a lossā¦.ā
“Why would you actually care?”
I would care because it belies a carelessness that could end up killing someone else.
That’s why.
Right now, in NYC, the father and mother of a dear friend of mine are dying. Argue about the numbers, blast the political side you wish, but this is real and needs to be taken seriously. Blame can be parceled out in due time, but now is a time to pray, to mourn and to comfort ….
Before you jump to conclusions let me ask a few questions.
1. Do you know if your neighbors are being careless or reckless in a way that would bring danger to others?
2. How do you intend to handle what you observe?
3. If you believe they are being careless and endangering others, how, in a biblically led way, will you help them see the error in their ways?
4. If you do nothing are you too being careless?
5. Does calling the hot line or social shaming accomplish things correctly or is that a sin and cause others to or continue in sin?
Things are never clear cut and itās really easy to make bold statements on a blog.
Is the pandemic serious? Yes it is and there is far more at stake than just āsaving lives.ā If we arenāt learning something about ourselves, our relationship with others and God, then itās just vanity.
Soap box over.
This is Church, BTW.
Duane
Iām sorry to hear about your friends family. Having been through the experience personally all we can do is give them a shoulder to cry on.
bob1, i am actually pretty good at chess. .š
Modern life? It is what it is…. But that does not mean it is an improvement… Layering and nuance are not new news…
I am quite willing, however, to let you fellas construct your own layering and nuance… š but don’t ignore accountability.
God keep
MM,
I’m just not that spiritual.
When someone violated the “six foot rule” in the pharmacy line I was polite the first time I backed them off…the second time was not polite at all.
Yes, this is about saving lives, first and foremost those of our medical workers and then the rest of us.
I’ll spare everyone the rest of the rant…
Duane,
I’m getting those kind of emails from all over…praying for your friends as well …
Dr. Duane, i pray God strengthen your friend and his family now and i pray for a miracle of grace in finding a successful treatment for this normal virus
Michael! ! ! What were you doing in that line? God have mercy to quote dear Xenia
I would think love of neighbor would prompt a Xn to care about folks who are currently being deceived!
Em,
Same thing you were doing in the grocery store… š
I’m doing all the absolutely necessary going out for two homes.
I’m the most disposable and by far the meanest…we are really trying to lock everything down to where I just use drive throughs and pick up service.
Getting closer…just as the numbers are really busting out here.
I had to transfer moms meds to my pharmacy that has a drive through
MM, I seem to have really hit a raw nerve with you. I shared what I did because it scares me as to what could result in illness or death. Since you have no idea who they are why get so hot and bothered? As this pandemic is so serious I simply stated what I have been seeing a lot of. You taking so much time to trash me is quite sad.
Eruuner
Iām responding to you and what you did or did not do.
Now Think about how those you observed would feel about your comment about them.
Iām āhot and botheredā because we should know better and yet we throw others under the bus of āsaving livesā and forget about their life.
There is a balance and I believe we have tipped the scales and maybe bring more chaos than order.
Iāll let it go for now. Peace to you and your family.
Calling 311 is a bit much. Here in the Bay Area, where shelter in place was ordered a wrk before the governor ordered it for the entire state, they closed hiking parks due to the crowds. I rode my bike to the nearest municipal park today and they removed the swings from the playground. Playgrounds are closed. I had taken my kids there twice last week after rains and no one was there. In certain areas, people weren’t following rules, thus the shutdowns.
I’m going back to work Monday. I’ll have a paper in case I’m stopped by the cops which is unlikely.
I don’t like our governor, but it’s the right thing to do. NY is becoming a mess. CA hopefully won’t because we got in front of it a little.
Where is God in all this suffering? I’m sure I’m not the only one asking this.
I appreciate this piece by Father James Martin. He doesn’t give any easy
or final answers. He does point us to Jesus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/coronavirus-religion.html
Michael with many churches laying off staff have you heard if Calvary Chapel South Bay is still going to bring on James MacDonald?
I completely agree with ERunner. There is way too many people ignoring the social distancing rules. My wife and three of my sons, plus my sister and her husband, all work in large retail establishments, and thus are on the front lines providing essential services. They see people each day casually congregating, bringing their entire families shopping, hanging out to shoot the breeze. It’s infuriating to me because it increases the danger to my family members. I really don’t give a rip about peoples’ feelings about being called out for being stupid and endangering others. And why such a focus by Christians saved by grace and given liberty from the Law on perfectly fulfilling the jot and tittle? I don’t know.
Thanks for those words Mike. I hope and pray you and yours come through this healthy and experience the peace of God as we all learn to live in a new reality.
Thx for the prayers and well wishes, E. I pray the same for you and your family as well!