Gotta question today…. ?
Our Lord instructs us to pray for those “in authority” over us and so i have been praying for President Biden…. BUT…
Lately I’ve come to suspect that he’s out to lunch and is just a puppet for an unseen power…
Do i still pray for Biden ir… ? ? ?
I personally despised Trump and his ilk more than any public figure in my lifetime.
Still, in the Daily Office I prayed for him.
I think Biden is a disaster.
I pray for him.
When I pray “thy kingdom come” it has nothing to do with beastly nation states.
“O Lord our Governor, whose glory is in all the world: We commend this nation to your merciful care, that, being guided by your Providence, we may dwell secure in your peace. Grant to the President of the United States, the Governor of this State (or, Commonwealth), and to all in authority, wisdom and strength to know and to do your will. Fill them with the love of truth and righteousness, and make them ever mindful of their calling to serve this people in your fear; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, world without end. Amen.”
Nancy? Well i thought my questipn theological… guess not😟
I apologize. ..
However, i appreciate the input from Alan and Michael….
More than ever in my lifetime, now i do pray “thy kingdom come”.
😇
I think that a direct query on how to pray for a specific known individual that one is prone to despise is exactly the kind of question the church and its leaders should be willing and able to answer….it’s easier to pray for a nebulous ‘person’ (strawman?) that represents the things we hate about other people, harder to consider an actual named individual and pray for them, and I think a lot of people need to be taught how to do that. Michael’s quote at 2:16pm is perfect, sort of like a firm, quick pull on a wayward puppy’s leash to direct him down the path being traveled.
Two things I have noticed in my life in regards to the above:
1. When I pray for someone I despise, I find that I despise them less.
2. Maybe the more I despise someone, the more I need to pray for them AND myself.
(the above two items are basically a corollary of each other).
That is just my mileage. Not saying anyone else has to agree or relate.
Thanks.
Here’s another tough one…Sirhan Sirhan has been approved for parole.
The assassin of one of my childhood heroes…Bobby Kennedy.
He’s an elderly man now…yet…
“Lately I’ve come to suspect that he’s out to lunch and is just a puppet for an unseen power…”
“I think Biden is a disaster.”
Some of the comments here regarding Afghanistan (if that is in fact what they are referring to) are a disgrace to Christianity, coming as they are on a Community of the Christian faith.
We are in the middle of a dangerous withdrawal operation. Can you wait for a post-operation investigation into what, if anything went wrong?
The players on our side are: (1) The prior administration which negotiated the deal with the Taliban, released 5,000 Taliban prisoners, and drew down our forces to 2,500 before the new administration took over; (2) the intelligence community responsible for risk assessment; (3) the military responsible for drawing up withdrawal plans; and (4) the current President who is responsible for deciding on the plan and providing executive oversight. No one here know crap from shinola about how to attribute the loss of life of our military among the players.
On the other hand, the loss of life is a terrible thing. It is extremely lamentable. However, why do we blame our own as if he bombed them? Bad stuff happens in war and the blame should go on the perpetrators.
This mission has evacuated more than 100k Americans and allies within 2 weeks. This is a feat that exceeds anything any nation has done at any other time in history. Can we marvel in admiration for the work of our leadership in this accomplishment? It is very important to many of our military and civilian leaders that we respect our allies. How may Afghans do you suppose the prior administration would have evacuated to America had it still been in power?
Please pray for our political and military leaders and stop judging the mission before you know what the heck you are talking about. You have no idea with the decisions have been based on.
Do you know that there are 4.4 million people living in Kabul? Do you know that Chicago has a population of 2.7 million people. Chicago has a police department of 12, 000. The current administration inherited a military force in Afghanistan of 2,500. Can you do the math.
I’ve heard General Rubio say that we should retake Bagram AFB. Well, why do you think the generals didn’t recommend that? Who would know better, General Rubio, or perhaps General Bone Spurs, or our active generals. Do you think military jets can enforce the law and personal safety in an urban environment of 4.4 million?
People say, “Why was the Taliban allowed to control security of the airport perimeter?” Well, did you know that the Taliban took over Kabul and the government there? Wherever the US military defines the line of control of its authority, the Taliban is by definition the authority on the other side of that line. We could expand that line, but for every foot we expand the line, we need to introduce more troops and more targets in an urban environment. And that still means that the Taliban control the other side and who can enter.
By the way, if the US does not work WITH the Taliban to the extent necessary, they could easily shut the airport and end the evacuation and take thousands of American hostages. So, “no” General Graham we should not align ourselves at this time with the opposition to the Taliban.
I will conclude by asking everyone to apply some common sense and take off your partisan hat for another week or so.
I voted for Biden because he made big promises about the immigration and refugees issues.
He flat out lied.
He’s a bleeping disaster and has broken the heart of every advocate and those who they advocate for.
It’s shameful as anything Trump did…more so, because he promised to stop it all.
Defending the evacuation is defending the indefensible, in my opinion.
First,
I respect our differences on the evacuation. Second, if I hear or read an alternative scenario with any merit whatsoever, I will consider it. So far, I have not.
The US signed a deal with the Taliban. That deal obligated the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners, who were released before Biden took office and obligated us to withdraw all military by May 1, 2021. The Taliban in that deal agreed not to attack American military, but did not obligate the Taliban to not attack the Afghan government. In fact the deal cut by Trump and Pompeo did not even include the Afghan government, who was our alley, as a party to the agreement. Former Trump officials have described it as a “surrender agreement.”
When Biden took over, we had 2,500 military in country. That isn’t even enough to secure the Kabul airport.
Obviously there was a breakdown in intelligence regarding the quick defeat of the Afghan military and the despicable leaving of the Afghan President. That is worthy of investigation. What did we know and when did we know it? Who knew it?
Look, it’s damn hard to end a war. You want the enemy to cry uncle. You want them to give you a dignified exit. But what do you do if they won’t do either? Do you give them sovereignty over our military as to the time of our withdrawal? Do they call the shots or we?
How may lives would we have lost if we decided to pacify Kabul? Biden and Trump shared a common objective: To end the war in Afghanistan. There are plenty of politicians who would never want us to leave; to keep on spending; to keep on bleeding; for an unwinnable war.
Michael,
I have not been following the immigration situation. My comments are exclusively related to the current ONGOING military operation in Afghanistan. It’s not that I don’t think the immigration situation is important; I do. But I don’t have the bandwidth to keep up with everything. I look forward to being educated by you in an article or commentary on the matter of immigration in the future.
I have no intention at this time to write anymore on the issue.
However, you will find if you look that most of us that do care actually hold Biden in utter contempt at this juncture.
I’m sorry to hear that Michael. I have never been a single issue voter. However, I understand that many are.
I hope that the immigration situation improves drastically, not for the sake of any politician, but for the sake of the poor, vulnerable people, who through no fault of their own are pushed into immigration, that they may find justice and compassion.
I know from small farmers in the Midwest (who are recipients), that American supermarkets and restaurants throw enough food away daily to feed probably millions of hungry people. We could help a ton of people, either here or there, without impinging own our own prosperity (God forbid!) if we had the will and imagination.
Meanwhile, we are fixated on space tourism for the elites.
In one sense, I’m glad…because this knob has ended any involvement or trust I had in this government…and I’m free to do what I’m called to do, which is herald the kingdom to come.
The Kabul airlift is an incredible success. If it was halted Fri PM US time it would be a success. Let’s compare encircled/ evacuation operations of the past.
Dunkirk. All equipment lost. While British forces evacuated from the beaches, French and Belgium didn’t fare as well. Large numbers of British where lost without reaching the beaches.
Stalingrad. Airlift was a failure. Of perhaps 270k encircled, 25k-35k where evacuated, many of which where wounded.
Khe Sahn. Only required the resupply of 6k Marines. Supported by a bombing and artillery campaign. Relieved by ground forces.
Lessons of Khe Sahn would indicate Kabul is un-defendable, and any forces on site would likely be eliminated by a determined attack.
Biden’s big blunder was all the high tech military equipmrnt he left at the airbase.. . I suspect Russia and China are already back engineering some of it….
But we can and should pray – we do have connections. 🙏
God keep
Em. I do not believe there to be advanced weaponry left behind. We have been transferring weapons to the National government as long as there’s been one.
I am glad we are getting out. What a waste of lives that 20 years was. i for one loved the camaraderie with my friends I spent in Iraq, but it was a giant waste also. Now we get to save our “allies” the opium growers and the bacha bazi pedophiles we protected for years and bring them here. That stuff angered many of my friends who also served in Afghanistan.
Biden has been in 7 month. He owns this cluster. The Pentagon was wasting time teaching us about LGBTQ pride and researching white rage instead of listening to soldiers. Any of us that trained the native armies could have told them they were useless. They just didn’t want to hear it.
The American ideology is bankrupt, left and right but yet we keep thinking people want more feminism and gay rights.
So rule us by your Word and Spirit that more and more we submit to you. 1
Preserve and increase your church. 2
Destroy the works of the devil,
every power that raises itself against you,
and every conspiracy against your holy Word. 3
Do all this
until the fullness of your kingdom comes,
wherein you shall be all in all. 4
Good to see Derek here. Thank you for your observations and I agree, it is good we are getting out…however, the way it has been done, I believe is for the sole purpose to not get out, but to prop up the war machine and keep it going. Anyone with common sense knows it should have been done with First getting the Americans and allies out, then getting out the supplies and weaponry, and THEN pulling out all the troops and leaving the Afghan army to do it’s job or not. The way it was done, it appears, is to make the American public demand Biden send in more troops to rescue those who need to be rescued, but in reality, to keep the war machine rolling. $$$$$
It’s interesting that in so many different spheres of life, people today are drawn to conspiracy theories. Extending from original sin, I wonder why today people are so vulnerable.
“Now we get to save our “allies” the opium growers and the bacha bazi pedophiles we protected for years and bring them here.”
The most zealous advocates of the evacuation of our allies to the USA are not politicians or generals, but the on-the-ground US military operators who served with them, even unto death! If our soldiers and veterans say we owe them, that is good enough for me.
Yeah, that afghani pedo thing is no conspiracy theory. All part of their culture we were supposed to leave them in peace to do. Like the woman my men watched stoned at a front gate in a Iraq and were told to stay out it. They aren’t us and we should have stayed out of their place and left it all between them and God.
Personally, I no longer care how many women they stone, how many gays they throw from roofs or if they want to little children they want to have sex with. They have their own country and I have enough evil happening around my own neighborhood to worry about. I sure don’t want more imported evil.
Jean loves to throw that conspiracy theory thing around. It’s his crutch and bludgeon. His way to place someone in an enemy camp so he can feel comfortable hating them.
You can tell when he’s got nothing to argue with.
Bye y’all
A very worthwhile meditation from Kate Bowler, who teaches at Duke Divinity School and has Stage IV colon cancer. I’m pretty sure Michael’s had links to her writing on here, in the recent past.
One Thing I Don’t Plan to Do Before I Die Is Make a Bucket List
When people peddle absurd theories, such as “the way it [the withdrawal] has been done, I believe is for the sole purpose to not get out”, they are asserting a conspiracy of military and civilian leaders who would risk American lives and prestige to perpetuate a war.
Maybe I do call out this type of trash, but I will not stay silent. And it saddens me that people so easily embrace the conspiracy theories.
My Army buddy, a 1st Sgt who did 1.5 tours there (after 2 in Iraq) thinks we should have left the day after bin laden was killed. He thinks it’s exactly that: $$$ to be made by continuing nation building. And government ineptitude. He communicated this to me with many swear words.
I often am tempted to point out that he’ll collect an army pension as well as a civil service pension from the government he complains about, but I never served, and of course didn’t see what he’s seen.
Off thread topic, but. ..
Gotta say
The nearest town to us is moving to clear up their homeless camps As a result, the meth-heads etc are moving up here in the mountains. No longer can we leave anything out that has pawn possibilities…
My point is?
It seems to me that locking up drug addicted souls is humane and does not go against Christian principles. If you are a non functioning human, you need to be incarcerated, looked after. . .. ?
It remains to be seen what becomes of those we left behind in Afghanistan. I imagine someone will tell me why that was a virtue and why the blame is other than those in positional authority.
Now that the withdrawal is complete, I hope Congress will investigate the following issues:
Were the American people misled into believing that the Afghan military was able to take responsibility for Afghan security after an American investment of $80 billion?
Did the USA support an Afghan government which the Afghan people did not support?
Why did the USA negotiate a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban which did not include the Afghan government as a party to the deal?
Did the American Intelligence Community know, withhold and/or provide to military commanders and the President any credible intelligence indicating that the Afghan military would essentially evaporate before the Taliban?
In carrying out the withdrawal, did the President reject any military recommendations for the execution of the withdrawal and, if so, what were they and why?
I imagine some here have already made up their minds, based on the chat room buddies and talk show pundits. However, as for me, I would like to hear military, intelligence and political appointees testify to these questions under oath, before I will draw any conclusions.
We are in a place where you can’t leave anything outside even in the best neighborhoods.
Cars are routinely broken into and vandalized and they seem to have a proclivity for starting fires.
Catch them and they’re back on the street in an hour.
There are no facilities to hold them or many programs for them.
I am old and grew up where such behavior led to sundry kinds of physical harm. If I catch another one trying to break into my car, I have a lovely hickory walking stick that I will use to beat the holy crap out of them until such time as I’m tired or the stick breaks.
I think everyone here should consider the following:
What country has ever evacuated 115k people in 2 weeks by air, surrounded by an a hostile force?
What country has the technology and capability to execute such an airlift?
What country has the personnel who would risk their lives (and 13 to give their lives) to execute such a perilous mission?
I will passionately assert that no other country on earth could or wanted to execute the mission. The USA led and executed a withdrawal that minimized the loss of life on all sides. I am profoundly sad that the USA incurred casualties, not from the Taliban, but from terrorists, and that the Afghan people also incurred mass casualties as a result of our presence.
I have no idea what needs to happen to get them out.
We know that many who worked with us will be slaughtered.
I’m idealistic enough to think our military could have accomplished a better plan…
It’s a singular accomplishment what our military airlift and force security accomplished.
We should consider two facts: 1) with a limited force, we ran a 24/7 operation. That is 3 shifts per day for the duration: airport security, air traffic control and support . 2) our aircraft maintenance and crews kept a fleet in service 24/7. How can we not marvel at the professionalism, planning and skill of our diplomatic core and military?
Some think we could dictate terms of our withdrawal, but, Alan, withdrawal doesn’t work that way. Absent a defeat of your foe, there is no way to withdraw and evacuate citizens and allies alive without a deal.
When Trump decided in 2020 the US wanted out, he surrendered any leverage we might have had. However, in his defense, I’m not sure we had any.
I heard today that my company fired 9 people who refused to wear masks (TX). A person in a lab (in my large workgroup) in another state lied on the self report though now we have to provide proof.
He has been gone seven years today.
Some people mark time by birthdays or joyful anniversaries.
I mark it by how long Chuck, Chester , and Missy have been gone.
I never met the man face to face, but I’ve felt alone since the day he died.
One big problem is that when we went from defeating the terrorist to nation building that was 2 Big Strikes against overall success. What is worse is that they tried to create a modern Westphalian nation-state with an Western style (European-US) national government.
For remote regions like this, only 2 forms of “national” government had a chance of success:
1) Strongman dictator who rules the country with an iron fist and has the military and ruthlessness to back it up.
2) A loose confederation type of government along the lines of the Mohawk Confederation in Colonial America.
We went into Afghanistan with don’t ask don’t tell and left with the Kabul Embassy tweeting out Pride month.
Watching the collapse of Imperial America has been informative.
Are you saying that homosexuals are to blame for your perceived decline of America?
I am not being snarky, but want to understand your position, because homosexuality comes up repeatedly in your comments.
If there is such a thing as “imperial America” and it is collapsing, as you have written, are you supportive of that collapse or would you like to see an imperial America endure?
What vital national diplomatic interest is served by flying a gay pride flag in a country in which homosexuality is both against the law and viewed as a perversion?
I wonder if Derek thinks the Israeli Defense Forces are some of the best in the world and succeed immensely. Then how does that square with the fact that the IDF has allowed open homosexuals since 1993 and transgenders since 2013, and allow soldiers to participate in gay pride parades since 2003?
I will sit back and watch all the hard-core dispies’ and Christian Zionists’ heads explode from those fun facts.
I think, dunnno, that the “Christian Zionists” are a product of “end times” preaching recently…..
Generically, the Jew has had a rough 2,000 years – possibly by God’s design….
And it has been interesting to see that the Western world, which allowed and sometimes embraced The Faith has prospered, sent missionaries to the four corners of this planet, has seemed to prosper in spite of this being – for now – the devil’s domain….
Just pondering….. again
Ha! This is kind of like those that like to blame every domestic natural disaters on gays and lesbians, until they are told that many of these natural disasters occurr in the Bible Belt. Where I live.
America is not being diminished in any way. Franklin Graham felt a raindrop on his jacket as he stepped to the podium in Jan 2017. God was sending rain as a sign of blessing. Just like in the Bible. We know he felt a drop because he told us.
I guess living on a planet that has natural disasters as a result of a universe tainted by the Fall never enters their minds.
I seem to recall some rabbi from Nazareth, who when asked about Tower of Siloam,and if the collapse, death and injuries had anything to do with peoples’ sins basically said, “Sh*t happens.”
But this illustrates the futility of saying “God send this hurricane/fire/tornadoe to punish Louisiana/Orgon/Alabama because of gays/liberals,etc”…it’s usually someone’s (usually a self-proclaimed prophet, etc) pet theology or personal whipping boy at play more than God in action. I know from the Bible that God sent disasters from time to time, but today we don’t have a book that says God sent this plague to punish so-and-so.
Absolutlely right CM. And good point about the Tower collapse and some rabbi’s assertion that it was because of sin. Same deal in the Gospel of John when they asserted that a blind man was blind because of his sin or parents sin. On a personal note, a “friend” asserted that I had exzema on my hands because perhaps there was sin in my family tree.
Speaking of natural disasters and God’s judgement, Minnesota has a long and sometimes embarrassing history (see Michael Dukakis) of voting Democrat, and they never see natural disasters on the scale of a Category 4/5 hurricane, 300+ people dying in a tornado outbreak (April 27, 2011), or widespread fires. As a resident of Minnesota for 42 years, the worst climate/natural disaster I can come up with is…
Nothing on that scale comes to mind.
In recent memory, I think the riots last summer may be the most unnerving event that I would have experienced there.
Correction to the above: Hinckley, MN experienced a destructive fire in 1894 that killed, officially, 418. Destroyed 200,000 acres. Main point being, you can’t just authoritatively say “God did this because of Gays/Democrats/Leftists/Baptist/etc.”
I really don’t care about Israel. The church is kingdom Israel, all those promises are ours.
I think we need to quit loading them up with our tax dollars and quit supporting them with PACs that pay off our politicians with Israeli money. Israel is also one of the gayest nations on the face of the earth.
Never said this was God’s judgement, but you can’t succeed at a mission when you are distracted by crap like that. Maybe that is why Israel can’t seem to get anything done militarily anymore.
Funny that so many on here deny God’s judgement ever happens in such an off hand manner though while bemoaning the situation in the US politically and culturally. Well, at least while your particular brand of neoliberalism is not in power.
My politically conservative town burned down a year ago this week. The liberal town to the immediate south (which is as gay as a spring morning) was spared.
Go figure…
Jean made a great point…why export our sin to a place that still calls it that?
“My politically conservative town burned down a year ago this week. The liberal town to the immediate south (which is as gay as a spring morning) was spared.
Go figure…”
This is the problem with trying to understand, speak for, or judge what God unrevealed is up to. He will not be known unrevealed, or as the theologians like to say, nude.
He didn’t show His face to Moses, only His back, and when He became incarnate, He showed Himself wrapped in human flesh.
The only way human beings, this side of the eschaton, will discover for sure what God thinks of us is by hearing what He says in His Holy Word and in His Sacraments of Baptism and Holy Communion. That is not where human reason and flesh wants to find God, but that is where He is.
I am not Google Dan, thank God.
Saw a guy today at work that had a shirt with praying hands and the words “Only God Can Judge Me” in gold letters on black.
Just makes me wonder what kind of bad stuff they are doing.
I do know, but I just don’t understand how someone can want me to define something they could have Google searched hours ago then get mad at me because I did not cater to them.
Honestly, everything in the US is tiresome these days.
The Texas abortion case is fun because it is making so many murdering women upset, but I expect the Supreme Court will find some “conservative” reason too keep abortion around. Conservatism is the shadow that follows the Democrats around. Look at how they go Gaga and goo goo over gays and transgenders now. “Hello fellow kids, I too am cool.”
Derek, I was trying to communicate with you. Yes, its easy to look on Google, but more than a few times on this blog I asked questions of posters here instead of just “Googleing it” because it’s more personable. Back and forth questions amongst two people is more helpful.
It’s all yours today…
Gotta question today…. ?
Our Lord instructs us to pray for those “in authority” over us and so i have been praying for President Biden…. BUT…
Lately I’ve come to suspect that he’s out to lunch and is just a puppet for an unseen power…
Do i still pray for Biden ir… ? ? ?
Pray thy kingdom come
Em–
How does your comment above lift up Christ and glorify Him? I believe Michael has encouraged us all to steer clear of politics.
Someone should have told Jesus about the line between God and nation.
I personally despised Trump and his ilk more than any public figure in my lifetime.
Still, in the Daily Office I prayed for him.
I think Biden is a disaster.
I pray for him.
When I pray “thy kingdom come” it has nothing to do with beastly nation states.
“O Lord our Governor, whose glory is in all the world: We commend this nation to your merciful care, that, being guided by your Providence, we may dwell secure in your peace. Grant to the President of the United States, the Governor of this State (or, Commonwealth), and to all in authority, wisdom and strength to know and to do your will. Fill them with the love of truth and righteousness, and make them ever mindful of their calling to serve this people in your fear; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, world without end. Amen.”
Nancy? Well i thought my questipn theological… guess not😟
I apologize. ..
However, i appreciate the input from Alan and Michael….
More than ever in my lifetime, now i do pray “thy kingdom come”.
😇
Michael @ 2:16. AMEN ! ! !
Need to copy that
I think that a direct query on how to pray for a specific known individual that one is prone to despise is exactly the kind of question the church and its leaders should be willing and able to answer….it’s easier to pray for a nebulous ‘person’ (strawman?) that represents the things we hate about other people, harder to consider an actual named individual and pray for them, and I think a lot of people need to be taught how to do that. Michael’s quote at 2:16pm is perfect, sort of like a firm, quick pull on a wayward puppy’s leash to direct him down the path being traveled.
Two things I have noticed in my life in regards to the above:
1. When I pray for someone I despise, I find that I despise them less.
2. Maybe the more I despise someone, the more I need to pray for them AND myself.
(the above two items are basically a corollary of each other).
That is just my mileage. Not saying anyone else has to agree or relate.
sarahmorgan,
Thanks.
Here’s another tough one…Sirhan Sirhan has been approved for parole.
The assassin of one of my childhood heroes…Bobby Kennedy.
He’s an elderly man now…yet…
Dan,
That’s how it’s supposed to work, I think…
Michael,
thanks, unfortunately I am not faithful alot in praying for those I don’t like.
Dan,
Me either…until I find myself thinking about them more than I should…
“Lately I’ve come to suspect that he’s out to lunch and is just a puppet for an unseen power…”
“I think Biden is a disaster.”
Some of the comments here regarding Afghanistan (if that is in fact what they are referring to) are a disgrace to Christianity, coming as they are on a Community of the Christian faith.
We are in the middle of a dangerous withdrawal operation. Can you wait for a post-operation investigation into what, if anything went wrong?
The players on our side are: (1) The prior administration which negotiated the deal with the Taliban, released 5,000 Taliban prisoners, and drew down our forces to 2,500 before the new administration took over; (2) the intelligence community responsible for risk assessment; (3) the military responsible for drawing up withdrawal plans; and (4) the current President who is responsible for deciding on the plan and providing executive oversight. No one here know crap from shinola about how to attribute the loss of life of our military among the players.
On the other hand, the loss of life is a terrible thing. It is extremely lamentable. However, why do we blame our own as if he bombed them? Bad stuff happens in war and the blame should go on the perpetrators.
This mission has evacuated more than 100k Americans and allies within 2 weeks. This is a feat that exceeds anything any nation has done at any other time in history. Can we marvel in admiration for the work of our leadership in this accomplishment? It is very important to many of our military and civilian leaders that we respect our allies. How may Afghans do you suppose the prior administration would have evacuated to America had it still been in power?
Please pray for our political and military leaders and stop judging the mission before you know what the heck you are talking about. You have no idea with the decisions have been based on.
Do you know that there are 4.4 million people living in Kabul? Do you know that Chicago has a population of 2.7 million people. Chicago has a police department of 12, 000. The current administration inherited a military force in Afghanistan of 2,500. Can you do the math.
I’ve heard General Rubio say that we should retake Bagram AFB. Well, why do you think the generals didn’t recommend that? Who would know better, General Rubio, or perhaps General Bone Spurs, or our active generals. Do you think military jets can enforce the law and personal safety in an urban environment of 4.4 million?
People say, “Why was the Taliban allowed to control security of the airport perimeter?” Well, did you know that the Taliban took over Kabul and the government there? Wherever the US military defines the line of control of its authority, the Taliban is by definition the authority on the other side of that line. We could expand that line, but for every foot we expand the line, we need to introduce more troops and more targets in an urban environment. And that still means that the Taliban control the other side and who can enter.
By the way, if the US does not work WITH the Taliban to the extent necessary, they could easily shut the airport and end the evacuation and take thousands of American hostages. So, “no” General Graham we should not align ourselves at this time with the opposition to the Taliban.
I will conclude by asking everyone to apply some common sense and take off your partisan hat for another week or so.
Jean,
I voted for Biden because he made big promises about the immigration and refugees issues.
He flat out lied.
He’s a bleeping disaster and has broken the heart of every advocate and those who they advocate for.
It’s shameful as anything Trump did…more so, because he promised to stop it all.
Defending the evacuation is defending the indefensible, in my opinion.
Em. You are instructed to pray for those in authority over. But, what petitions you choose to request, is for you to do as you see fit.
What you ask, and what you are granted is the great unknown.
First,
I respect our differences on the evacuation. Second, if I hear or read an alternative scenario with any merit whatsoever, I will consider it. So far, I have not.
The US signed a deal with the Taliban. That deal obligated the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners, who were released before Biden took office and obligated us to withdraw all military by May 1, 2021. The Taliban in that deal agreed not to attack American military, but did not obligate the Taliban to not attack the Afghan government. In fact the deal cut by Trump and Pompeo did not even include the Afghan government, who was our alley, as a party to the agreement. Former Trump officials have described it as a “surrender agreement.”
When Biden took over, we had 2,500 military in country. That isn’t even enough to secure the Kabul airport.
Obviously there was a breakdown in intelligence regarding the quick defeat of the Afghan military and the despicable leaving of the Afghan President. That is worthy of investigation. What did we know and when did we know it? Who knew it?
Look, it’s damn hard to end a war. You want the enemy to cry uncle. You want them to give you a dignified exit. But what do you do if they won’t do either? Do you give them sovereignty over our military as to the time of our withdrawal? Do they call the shots or we?
How may lives would we have lost if we decided to pacify Kabul? Biden and Trump shared a common objective: To end the war in Afghanistan. There are plenty of politicians who would never want us to leave; to keep on spending; to keep on bleeding; for an unwinnable war.
There are layers of complexity with the Afghanistan situation.
There are none with immigration lies and broken promises.
They are simply lies and broken promises.
Michael,
I have not been following the immigration situation. My comments are exclusively related to the current ONGOING military operation in Afghanistan. It’s not that I don’t think the immigration situation is important; I do. But I don’t have the bandwidth to keep up with everything. I look forward to being educated by you in an article or commentary on the matter of immigration in the future.
Jean,
I have no intention at this time to write anymore on the issue.
However, you will find if you look that most of us that do care actually hold Biden in utter contempt at this juncture.
I’m sorry to hear that Michael. I have never been a single issue voter. However, I understand that many are.
I hope that the immigration situation improves drastically, not for the sake of any politician, but for the sake of the poor, vulnerable people, who through no fault of their own are pushed into immigration, that they may find justice and compassion.
I know from small farmers in the Midwest (who are recipients), that American supermarkets and restaurants throw enough food away daily to feed probably millions of hungry people. We could help a ton of people, either here or there, without impinging own our own prosperity (God forbid!) if we had the will and imagination.
Meanwhile, we are fixated on space tourism for the elites.
I am not necessarily a single issue voter.
However, immigration reform has been a primarily Democratic issue and large promises and fake compassion were in evidence before the election.
In reality, Biden may end up being worse for the oppressed and vulnerable than Trump was…and that takes effort.
In one sense, I’m glad…because this knob has ended any involvement or trust I had in this government…and I’m free to do what I’m called to do, which is herald the kingdom to come.
The Kabul airlift is an incredible success. If it was halted Fri PM US time it would be a success. Let’s compare encircled/ evacuation operations of the past.
Dunkirk. All equipment lost. While British forces evacuated from the beaches, French and Belgium didn’t fare as well. Large numbers of British where lost without reaching the beaches.
Stalingrad. Airlift was a failure. Of perhaps 270k encircled, 25k-35k where evacuated, many of which where wounded.
Khe Sahn. Only required the resupply of 6k Marines. Supported by a bombing and artillery campaign. Relieved by ground forces.
Lessons of Khe Sahn would indicate Kabul is un-defendable, and any forces on site would likely be eliminated by a determined attack.
Biden’s big blunder was all the high tech military equipmrnt he left at the airbase.. . I suspect Russia and China are already back engineering some of it….
But we can and should pray – we do have connections. 🙏
God keep
Em. I do not believe there to be advanced weaponry left behind. We have been transferring weapons to the National government as long as there’s been one.
I am glad we are getting out. What a waste of lives that 20 years was. i for one loved the camaraderie with my friends I spent in Iraq, but it was a giant waste also. Now we get to save our “allies” the opium growers and the bacha bazi pedophiles we protected for years and bring them here. That stuff angered many of my friends who also served in Afghanistan.
Biden has been in 7 month. He owns this cluster. The Pentagon was wasting time teaching us about LGBTQ pride and researching white rage instead of listening to soldiers. Any of us that trained the native armies could have told them they were useless. They just didn’t want to hear it.
The American ideology is bankrupt, left and right but yet we keep thinking people want more feminism and gay rights.
Derek!
Good and informed observations, Derek
Going to feed my ponderings today
I love what the HC says about thy Kingdom come
So rule us by your Word and Spirit that more and more we submit to you. 1
Preserve and increase your church. 2
Destroy the works of the devil,
every power that raises itself against you,
and every conspiracy against your holy Word. 3
Do all this
until the fullness of your kingdom comes,
wherein you shall be all in all. 4
1.Ps 119:5, 105; 143:10; Mt 6:33.
2.Ps 51:18; 122:6-9; Mt 16:18; Acts 2:42-47.
Does anypne know if there are legitimate Christian workers trapped in Afghanistan? ? ?
Good to see Derek here. Thank you for your observations and I agree, it is good we are getting out…however, the way it has been done, I believe is for the sole purpose to not get out, but to prop up the war machine and keep it going. Anyone with common sense knows it should have been done with First getting the Americans and allies out, then getting out the supplies and weaponry, and THEN pulling out all the troops and leaving the Afghan army to do it’s job or not. The way it was done, it appears, is to make the American public demand Biden send in more troops to rescue those who need to be rescued, but in reality, to keep the war machine rolling. $$$$$
Just one of His lambs, i have heard the same thing…. sadly, it does make sensr.
It’s interesting that in so many different spheres of life, people today are drawn to conspiracy theories. Extending from original sin, I wonder why today people are so vulnerable.
“Now we get to save our “allies” the opium growers and the bacha bazi pedophiles we protected for years and bring them here.”
The most zealous advocates of the evacuation of our allies to the USA are not politicians or generals, but the on-the-ground US military operators who served with them, even unto death! If our soldiers and veterans say we owe them, that is good enough for me.
Yeah, that afghani pedo thing is no conspiracy theory. All part of their culture we were supposed to leave them in peace to do. Like the woman my men watched stoned at a front gate in a Iraq and were told to stay out it. They aren’t us and we should have stayed out of their place and left it all between them and God.
Personally, I no longer care how many women they stone, how many gays they throw from roofs or if they want to little children they want to have sex with. They have their own country and I have enough evil happening around my own neighborhood to worry about. I sure don’t want more imported evil.
Jean loves to throw that conspiracy theory thing around. It’s his crutch and bludgeon. His way to place someone in an enemy camp so he can feel comfortable hating them.
You can tell when he’s got nothing to argue with.
Bye y’all
A very worthwhile meditation from Kate Bowler, who teaches at Duke Divinity School and has Stage IV colon cancer. I’m pretty sure Michael’s had links to her writing on here, in the recent past.
One Thing I Don’t Plan to Do Before I Die Is Make a Bucket List
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/opinion/sunday/colon-cancer-bucket-list.html
Derek,
When people peddle absurd theories, such as “the way it [the withdrawal] has been done, I believe is for the sole purpose to not get out”, they are asserting a conspiracy of military and civilian leaders who would risk American lives and prestige to perpetuate a war.
Maybe I do call out this type of trash, but I will not stay silent. And it saddens me that people so easily embrace the conspiracy theories.
Afghanistan is sitting on huge mineral wealth.
Russia tried.
The Yanquis tried.
Both failed.
Will the Chinese do any better?
My Army buddy, a 1st Sgt who did 1.5 tours there (after 2 in Iraq) thinks we should have left the day after bin laden was killed. He thinks it’s exactly that: $$$ to be made by continuing nation building. And government ineptitude. He communicated this to me with many swear words.
I often am tempted to point out that he’ll collect an army pension as well as a civil service pension from the government he complains about, but I never served, and of course didn’t see what he’s seen.
Off thread topic, but. ..
Gotta say
The nearest town to us is moving to clear up their homeless camps As a result, the meth-heads etc are moving up here in the mountains. No longer can we leave anything out that has pawn possibilities…
My point is?
It seems to me that locking up drug addicted souls is humane and does not go against Christian principles. If you are a non functioning human, you need to be incarcerated, looked after. . .. ?
It remains to be seen what becomes of those we left behind in Afghanistan. I imagine someone will tell me why that was a virtue and why the blame is other than those in positional authority.
Alan, they can’t tell you “why.”. T’wold be a total demonic fabrication…. IMHO, of course
It’s my understanding that anytime we would have left, under any administration, the result would have been the same.
Were you equally as upset when Trump abandoned our Kurdish allies?
Em,
If your area is anything like ours (Methford) there is no room in the jails.
This thread on the history of American vaccine mandates is gold…
https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/status/1432060722985508865
“It remains to be seen what becomes of those we left behind in Afghanistan.”
Who precisely are you referring to?
I think we know what will become of much of them…and it’s brutal.
Afghanistan is where empires go to die…
Who to blame?
4 Presidents
8 Secretaries of Defense
6 Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Enough blame to go around…
Now that the withdrawal is complete, I hope Congress will investigate the following issues:
Were the American people misled into believing that the Afghan military was able to take responsibility for Afghan security after an American investment of $80 billion?
Did the USA support an Afghan government which the Afghan people did not support?
Why did the USA negotiate a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban which did not include the Afghan government as a party to the deal?
Did the American Intelligence Community know, withhold and/or provide to military commanders and the President any credible intelligence indicating that the Afghan military would essentially evaporate before the Taliban?
In carrying out the withdrawal, did the President reject any military recommendations for the execution of the withdrawal and, if so, what were they and why?
I imagine some here have already made up their minds, based on the chat room buddies and talk show pundits. However, as for me, I would like to hear military, intelligence and political appointees testify to these questions under oath, before I will draw any conclusions.
jean, with the super majority in power, there won’t be any sworn testimony. There’s a virus, and a hurricane, and midterms, and…
(…too much to lose.)
I was equally upset when we betrayed the Kurds AGAIN…
As for precisely who — start with 38 million Afghans — then any American citizens or green card holders. And on from there.
I also did not ascribe blame but predictably the void was filled.
We have done evil and no nation should believe us or trust our presence.
I agree with oil…there won’t be a real investigation.
Even if there were, it wouldn’t affect the believed narratives one iota.
Jean, 1 through 5 = yes 🙂
It wouldn’t affect the believers of their political commitments, but I believe there will be a robust investigation, because it is a bipartisan issue.
Alan, the American people wanted out. Unwinable means unwinable.
Michael, i shouldn’t have used the word “incarceration,” i was thinking, rather of sanitoriums where one is locked up because of mental incompetence….
No one besides a couple mute voices in 2020 raised any laments in 2020, when the USA signed a covenant with the Taliban to withdraw by 5/12021.
Em,
We are in a place where you can’t leave anything outside even in the best neighborhoods.
Cars are routinely broken into and vandalized and they seem to have a proclivity for starting fires.
Catch them and they’re back on the street in an hour.
There are no facilities to hold them or many programs for them.
I am old and grew up where such behavior led to sundry kinds of physical harm. If I catch another one trying to break into my car, I have a lovely hickory walking stick that I will use to beat the holy crap out of them until such time as I’m tired or the stick breaks.
I think everyone here should consider the following:
What country has ever evacuated 115k people in 2 weeks by air, surrounded by an a hostile force?
What country has the technology and capability to execute such an airlift?
What country has the personnel who would risk their lives (and 13 to give their lives) to execute such a perilous mission?
I will passionately assert that no other country on earth could or wanted to execute the mission. The USA led and executed a withdrawal that minimized the loss of life on all sides. I am profoundly sad that the USA incurred casualties, not from the Taliban, but from terrorists, and that the Afghan people also incurred mass casualties as a result of our presence.
Jean,
I think the question is one of was this done as competently as it could have, should have been…and the answer seems to not be positive.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-veterans-struggling-to-save-afghan-allies?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_083021&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=60eceb2a33d9a3007c7ecd30&cndid=65684880&hasha=ec2281fe2795349c32014b4c6d72f6e5&hashb=1fa0240812a77e8686ce5f8b3679e3420a77d108&hashc=02dc1467da0eb89f3eb71a34b58519465a555fa1bd04b3a1c995f3ac6345edfe&esrc=KEYWEE_FB_NEWS&mbid=CRMNYR012019&utm_content=B&utm_term=TNY_Daily
There are still 100+ Americans who want to get out…
Do we have to occupy the airport to get them out?
Will occupying the airport get them out?
Jean are you actually lobbying us that we did this well?
I’d say the Taliban takeover was far more impressive than our abdication
They caught and cornered us before we could escape and then like a mouse cornered by a cat they toyed with us.
Jean,
I have no idea what needs to happen to get them out.
We know that many who worked with us will be slaughtered.
I’m idealistic enough to think our military could have accomplished a better plan…
Alan,
It’s a singular accomplishment what our military airlift and force security accomplished.
We should consider two facts: 1) with a limited force, we ran a 24/7 operation. That is 3 shifts per day for the duration: airport security, air traffic control and support . 2) our aircraft maintenance and crews kept a fleet in service 24/7. How can we not marvel at the professionalism, planning and skill of our diplomatic core and military?
Some think we could dictate terms of our withdrawal, but, Alan, withdrawal doesn’t work that way. Absent a defeat of your foe, there is no way to withdraw and evacuate citizens and allies alive without a deal.
When Trump decided in 2020 the US wanted out, he surrendered any leverage we might have had. However, in his defense, I’m not sure we had any.
Kabul airport is not defensible. Nobody is going back to retake it.
Anyone wishing to leave going forward, will do so with a visa…or none..like every other human, at every other checkpoint on earth. Results will vary.
The airlift = Smashing success.
Taliban. They have lost all leverage. A tough situation. With a mutual enemy I expect internal divisions.
Oops..”. Without a mutual enemy…”
I heard today that my company fired 9 people who refused to wear masks (TX). A person in a lab (in my large workgroup) in another state lied on the self report though now we have to provide proof.
He has been gone seven years today.
Some people mark time by birthdays or joyful anniversaries.
I mark it by how long Chuck, Chester , and Missy have been gone.
I never met the man face to face, but I’ve felt alone since the day he died.
https://www.motherjones.com/media/2015/03/charles-bowdens-fury/
One big problem is that when we went from defeating the terrorist to nation building that was 2 Big Strikes against overall success. What is worse is that they tried to create a modern Westphalian nation-state with an Western style (European-US) national government.
For remote regions like this, only 2 forms of “national” government had a chance of success:
1) Strongman dictator who rules the country with an iron fist and has the military and ruthlessness to back it up.
2) A loose confederation type of government along the lines of the Mohawk Confederation in Colonial America.
But of course, neither was implemented.
We went into Afghanistan with don’t ask don’t tell and left with the Kabul Embassy tweeting out Pride month.
Watching the collapse of Imperial America has been informative.
Derek,
Are you saying that homosexuals are to blame for your perceived decline of America?
I am not being snarky, but want to understand your position, because homosexuality comes up repeatedly in your comments.
If there is such a thing as “imperial America” and it is collapsing, as you have written, are you supportive of that collapse or would you like to see an imperial America endure?
Sorry Jean, I feel no need to explain myself.
Make of anything what you will.
with the Kabul Embassy tweeting out Pride month.
Oh, my God!
Talk about missing the forest for the trees!
I’ll join the protest of the gay pride flag flying over our embassy.
Let’s agree to disagree.
What vital national diplomatic interest is served by flying a gay pride flag in a country in which homosexuality is both against the law and viewed as a perversion?
I wonder if Derek thinks the Israeli Defense Forces are some of the best in the world and succeed immensely. Then how does that square with the fact that the IDF has allowed open homosexuals since 1993 and transgenders since 2013, and allow soldiers to participate in gay pride parades since 2003?
I will sit back and watch all the hard-core dispies’ and Christian Zionists’ heads explode from those fun facts.
I think, dunnno, that the “Christian Zionists” are a product of “end times” preaching recently…..
Generically, the Jew has had a rough 2,000 years – possibly by God’s design….
And it has been interesting to see that the Western world, which allowed and sometimes embraced The Faith has prospered, sent missionaries to the four corners of this planet, has seemed to prosper in spite of this being – for now – the devil’s domain….
Just pondering….. again
Jean @4:00am… The ultimate insult? ? ?
CM…
Ha! This is kind of like those that like to blame every domestic natural disaters on gays and lesbians, until they are told that many of these natural disasters occurr in the Bible Belt. Where I live.
Dan from GA, the Bible Belt is getting a spanking – the agnostic West Coast is getting burned to ashes
America is not being diminished in any way. Franklin Graham felt a raindrop on his jacket as he stepped to the podium in Jan 2017. God was sending rain as a sign of blessing. Just like in the Bible. We know he felt a drop because he told us.
There’s just blessings everywhere right now.
Dan,
I guess living on a planet that has natural disasters as a result of a universe tainted by the Fall never enters their minds.
I seem to recall some rabbi from Nazareth, who when asked about Tower of Siloam,and if the collapse, death and injuries had anything to do with peoples’ sins basically said, “Sh*t happens.”
Em,
But this illustrates the futility of saying “God send this hurricane/fire/tornadoe to punish Louisiana/Orgon/Alabama because of gays/liberals,etc”…it’s usually someone’s (usually a self-proclaimed prophet, etc) pet theology or personal whipping boy at play more than God in action. I know from the Bible that God sent disasters from time to time, but today we don’t have a book that says God sent this plague to punish so-and-so.
Absolutlely right CM. And good point about the Tower collapse and some rabbi’s assertion that it was because of sin. Same deal in the Gospel of John when they asserted that a blind man was blind because of his sin or parents sin. On a personal note, a “friend” asserted that I had exzema on my hands because perhaps there was sin in my family tree.
Speaking of natural disasters and God’s judgement, Minnesota has a long and sometimes embarrassing history (see Michael Dukakis) of voting Democrat, and they never see natural disasters on the scale of a Category 4/5 hurricane, 300+ people dying in a tornado outbreak (April 27, 2011), or widespread fires. As a resident of Minnesota for 42 years, the worst climate/natural disaster I can come up with is…
Nothing on that scale comes to mind.
In recent memory, I think the riots last summer may be the most unnerving event that I would have experienced there.
Correction to the above: Hinckley, MN experienced a destructive fire in 1894 that killed, officially, 418. Destroyed 200,000 acres. Main point being, you can’t just authoritatively say “God did this because of Gays/Democrats/Leftists/Baptist/etc.”
I really don’t care about Israel. The church is kingdom Israel, all those promises are ours.
I think we need to quit loading them up with our tax dollars and quit supporting them with PACs that pay off our politicians with Israeli money. Israel is also one of the gayest nations on the face of the earth.
Never said this was God’s judgement, but you can’t succeed at a mission when you are distracted by crap like that. Maybe that is why Israel can’t seem to get anything done militarily anymore.
Funny that so many on here deny God’s judgement ever happens in such an off hand manner though while bemoaning the situation in the US politically and culturally. Well, at least while your particular brand of neoliberalism is not in power.
The source of hurricanes is the Caribbean Basin and West Coast Africa.
The takeaway?
Countries with a lot of expensive real estate, shouldn’t call countries with the hurricanes, a bunch of shit holes.
from my comment 1010am PT:
” I know from the Bible that God sent disasters from time to time, but today we don’t have a book that says God sent this plague to punish so-and-so.”
Again, we don’t have the luxury of God telling us what disasters are His doing.
My politically conservative town burned down a year ago this week. The liberal town to the immediate south (which is as gay as a spring morning) was spared.
Go figure…
Jean made a great point…why export our sin to a place that still calls it that?
What the flip is neoliberalism anyways Derek?!?!
“My politically conservative town burned down a year ago this week. The liberal town to the immediate south (which is as gay as a spring morning) was spared.
Go figure…”
This is the problem with trying to understand, speak for, or judge what God unrevealed is up to. He will not be known unrevealed, or as the theologians like to say, nude.
He didn’t show His face to Moses, only His back, and when He became incarnate, He showed Himself wrapped in human flesh.
The only way human beings, this side of the eschaton, will discover for sure what God thinks of us is by hearing what He says in His Holy Word and in His Sacraments of Baptism and Holy Communion. That is not where human reason and flesh wants to find God, but that is where He is.
I am not Google Dan, thank God.
Saw a guy today at work that had a shirt with praying hands and the words “Only God Can Judge Me” in gold letters on black.
Just makes me wonder what kind of bad stuff they are doing.
Grow up Derek. You were the one who brought it up so I thought you’d know.
I do know, but I just don’t understand how someone can want me to define something they could have Google searched hours ago then get mad at me because I did not cater to them.
Honestly, everything in the US is tiresome these days.
The Texas abortion case is fun because it is making so many murdering women upset, but I expect the Supreme Court will find some “conservative” reason too keep abortion around. Conservatism is the shadow that follows the Democrats around. Look at how they go Gaga and goo goo over gays and transgenders now. “Hello fellow kids, I too am cool.”
Derek, I was trying to communicate with you. Yes, its easy to look on Google, but more than a few times on this blog I asked questions of posters here instead of just “Googleing it” because it’s more personable. Back and forth questions amongst two people is more helpful.