PCA Kills Child Abuse Resolution

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38 Responses

  1. Nonnie says:

    Shall we hope that it was decided that the watered down version was not good enough and they are working on getting on important issues, such as Mandated reporting placed in the document. I hope that is the case. (she said, wearing her rose coloured glasses)

  2. incognedo says:

    My rather shallow vale, I took care of a lady for years, she was a nice person, and she tried so hard to be part of reality. Do to a variety of medical and psychological issues she would hurt herself. I mean really, before I worked with her she had taken one eye out with a fork and had one left. At dinner one time she got a hold a a fort and went for the other eye, the back of my hand got there first. I still look at the very small scar and wonder, Why God? I get the whole Adam and Eve fell, ate the forbidden fruit and basically we were all doomed from before we were ever born motif. I would pray, rebuke, exhort, command, and other such mambo jumbo and it had absolutely zero effect, it always had absolutely zero effect in this context. She would still bite herself to the literal bone, pull her hair out and dig into her scalp, down to the bone. Yes the literal bone. It troubled me, first I admit, I should repent that this should bother me, I get we all have it coming because we are all totally depraved God hating Satan worshipers. I get that.

    Well actually I dont, if I could have spared her one second of torment I would have, but I lack the spiritual guidance and foresight others have. I wanted to help her, and at the same time I was compelled to repent of wanting to help as that is emotional and thus always condemned. Always. I get that to. There is the apologetic, and that is all, the shallow, pathetic useless, worthless apologetic, that proves nothing has no meaning and it has the gall of attacking any other world view.

    Want to hear something pathetic, and it is pathetic and I get that as well, I often pray, God if you want blood (and from my study of scripture He does) take mine if it helps others I have worked with. Well I am still here, despite many prayers (No I am not going to hurt myself). I just want Him to show Himself. I know that is total and rank apostasy, trust me I have tried to repent of needing God to show Himself, answer prayer or in any other way contact me. I do not expect that, nor want it in some strange way, a gift from my past experiences in the Christian religion.

    Then He does show Himself, a quiet voice, a still calm, a hope as faint as butterfly wings. I see Him in beauty, I see Him in a smile, in a comment on a blog, in a cool breeze, in a cold drink of water. He fills me, inundates me with His grace, He surrounds me with His hope, and I see light, and the creator of light. I see justice at the cross, and I see the great reconciliation where all will be made right and hope will be restored. Hope is constantly being restored. I just have to fall back into His hands and let go, but it is so hard to let go because I want to hold on, it is all I have known. But I trust through the darkness and I let go, and each night, each moment I have He caught me with each breath and in every second. I call that grace.

  3. Nonnie, those glasses look great on you!

    incog, “I lack the spiritual guidance and foresight others have.” Not from what I’ve seen here over the years.

  4. I have to wonder how many of God’s little ones will experience evil while this is being “worked on in the coming year.”

  5. London says:

    I think it’s important to remember that just because they don’t have a written document worked putter, does not mean they are pro-child abuse, will not protect kids, or report abusers.

  6. London says:

    Worked out yet…stupid auto correct

  7. monax says:

    Keep in mind this is a general assembly of Presbyterians—they need a decent amount of time to put things in order.

  8. I agree with London (gasp! 😉 )

    Which of us here needs a written policy.? Look, there are written “policies” against muder in this country – it does not seem to affect the bad guys at all.

    A policy on child abuse will not stop the abusers, it will not stop those who don’t want to get involved.

    I guess it will be nice to have one, so that they have something to point to and say – “see, we care.” but it won’t go beyond that.

  9. Crowned1 says:

    Monax @ 7

    Reminds me of ‘Ents’ from Lord of the Rings:

    Treebeard “Anything worth doing, takes a very long time to accomplish”

    Pippin “But children are being abused out there!”

    Treebeard “Now, now, don’t be hasty little hobbit”

  10. monax says:

    beautiful reference, Crowned1, i love it!

  11. Crowned1 says:

    MLD @ 8 “Look, there are written ‘policies’ against murder in this country – it does not seem to affect the bad guys at all. A policy on child abuse will not stop the abusers, it will not stop those who don’t want to get involved.

    I guess it will be nice to have one, so that they have something to point to and say – ‘see, we care.’ but it won’t go beyond that.”

    Amen. That is exactly what I was surmising in another thread.

  12. People are better than bureaucracies… Christians are often better than the institutions they represent.

  13. Ricky Bobby says:

    Same stuff, different day.

    Hopefully the lawyers feed on them like locusts.

  14. Lutheran says:

    What London said — #5

  15. Michael says:

    Frankly, I find it disgusting.
    The church speaks specifically to any number of moral and political issues on a constant basis, yet can’t or shouldn’t speak to this?
    No, these resolutions have no power of their own…but they speak to a recognition of a problem and a rededication to address it to the best of ones abilities.

  16. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, to speak to Nonnie’s point, in your reporting do you hear whether many people voted no BECAUSE of the watering down of the original language?

  17. Michael says:


    I don’t have that information.
    I can only speculate.
    The first proposal was a thing of beauty and would have had an impact far beyond the PCA.
    My guess is that it was killed by a combination of lawyers avoiding liability issues and others covering friends that are speaking at future conferences.

  18. Steve Wright says:

    You wrote on the other post that if they cut anymore they might as well forget it – the implication I assume you were making is there is no value in a tremendously watered down message.

    And I know it is a judgment call in politics. Is half the loaf better than none? Of course, the answer depends on whether full loaf can be achieved in the relatively near future, and if half the loaf kills any future discussion because the mindset would be “we’ve already addressed that issue”

    I imagine a lot of those in favor of the original voted no – for the purpose of keeping the issue alive until next year.

    But I have no idea. I’m applying what I see in D.C. politics all the time to this….

  19. Michael says:


    From my understanding there is great similarity between D.C. politics and PCA general assemblies.
    You might be right.

  20. Michael says:

    The advantage to waiting another year is that some will hope the Mahaney issue is that much farther behind them.
    The smart ones know they can outlast the bloggers.

  21. Crowned1 says:

    I’m just gonna call a spade a spade…

    Spiritual leaders who cover up their sins serve satan. How they handle a sin crisis determines who their ‘father’ is. Exposure of sin is a sign of spiritual maturity.

    Cover ups, black mail to keep people from talking, extra curricular oaths to not ‘out’ a fellow brother, satan…satan…satan.

    There’s no moral gray here. Either God is served or Lucifer is.

    Sure, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. But do we repent? Or do we cover up, spin, and silence?

    Everyone keeps asking for amendments as if Luciferians would follow them.

  22. Michael says:


    No one serves God completely and perfectly.
    In the course of a day we will serve both masters… such is our plight in a fallen world.
    To label someone a Luciferian when they fall is a denial of the cross and a presumptive judgment.
    Your statement would damn Peter…and I ain’t going there.

  23. Lutheran says:


    That’s nuts.

  24. PP Vet says:

    Nothing brings out the witch hunters, the kangaroo courts, and the self-righteous tongue cluckers like accusations of child molestation.

    If there was ever a case in which the cure was worse than the disease, this is it.

  25. London says:

    Maybe the final version will be even better than the first. Maybe it will have a lot more specifics and a lot less “wherefore and whereas” in it so people actually read past the first paragraph (maybe that was just me).
    We don’t know what they will write in the future, so lets give them time and the benefit of the doubt and believe the best about them till proven otherwise.

  26. Crowned1 says:

    Michael @ 22 “To label someone a Luciferian when they fall”

    A ‘fall’ means you ‘were upright previously’ and generally assumes that your horizontal prostration was short lived (past tense).

    I am speaking about habitual sin & cover up. Non-repentance. Open mockery of God.

    I am not even speaking of the one who falls, repents, falls again, repents again, etc. Purely open non-repentant mockery of the Cross. Those who are ‘above’ repentance.

  27. Crowned1 says:

    Lutheran @ 23 “ ‘Luciferians’ That’s nuts.”

    I agree. So why does he have followers, I wonder?

    Lucifer, satan, devil, great architect, light being, light principal, take your pick.

  28. Lutheran says:

    Well, thankfully, our Lord doesn’t share your opinion of His church. in fact, just the opposite.

    I’ll take His Word and ignore yours.

  29. Crowned1 says:

    Lutheran @ 28

    I’m not exactly sure what ‘church’ you are referring to? But you should absolutely take God’s Word above my opinions (or anyone else’s)…24/7.

    God’s opinion is opposite of mine? That would mean ‘children should be hurt’ and ‘cover ups should continue’…unless I’m missing something?

    To be honest, I am very confused by the response, I apologize in advance.

  30. Lutheran says:

    ‘God’s opinion is opposite of mine?’


    No, I’m the one who needs to apologize. I thought you were literally equating a branch of Christ’s church with belonging to Satan because this amendment was tabled.

  31. Crowned1 says:

    Lutheran @ 30

    So glad that is cleared up! You are correct, I’m merely speaking of ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’ sibling in Christ. Have a wonderful day!

  32. While you guys are considering child abuse check out this little gem right here


    A Christian group that favors spanking wives… for dishonesty, disobedience, disrespect and danger … it gives explicit instructions for how to discipline her.

    Pretty hideous stuff

  33. Steve Wright says:

    Dread, I’m missing any Christian group connection. Curious where you saw that angle.

    That trash looks like typical initiation/indoctrination to a future lifestyle of dominant/submissive sadomasochism. I’ve heard the term “domestic discipline” and the letters DD used for such perversions.

    And yes, it is truly hideous stuff

  34. Steve Wright says:

    Thanks Dread. I think I’m in the right ballpark with my earlier comment, but clearly there is no end to how some people will use the Bible to justify and even promote their sin and perversions, (and the Huff Post is going to notice and report every time).

    This is like Westboro Baptist stuff…CINO (Christian in name only)

    The two different websites linked seem to each contain similar messages along what I imagined.

    1) Whilst we recognise by its very nature this can be an erotic subject, we will keep this website as clean and wholesome as possible. However, we will not seek to deny the erotic nature of some CDD marriages as we believe it is a natural consequence of following God’s plan. After all, He created eroticism and sexuality to be enjoyed within the healthy, safe, and exclusive boundaries of marriage.

    2) Christian Domestic Discipline is not BDSM. It is not a game. While we do not deny its sometimes erotic nature, it is ultimately not for erotic purposes. It is often much different than the domestic discipline you will find outside of the Christian faith.

    (I note the word “often” here – meaning I guess occasionally it is exactly like the world’s BDSM)

  35. Jtk says:

    What precipitated all the PCA discussion?

    Someone simply discovered they were debated their policies? Sorry, I missed alot

  36. victorious says:

    Covered1. The church has been given authority to be exercised with discretion but to,be exercised in righteousness. When the PCA or any other group or fellowship of churches issue statements or resolutions they are fulfilling Matthew18:18-19.

    Since when do we base our actions upon whether or not it will make a difference in the behavior of men rather than arising out of the fear of The Lord?

    This reeks like Truman calling off the advance of MacArthur.

  37. Crowned1 says:

    victorious @ 37 “Since when do we base our actions upon whether or not it will make a difference in the behavior of men rather than arising out of the fear of The Lord?”

    The point is…the men do not fear the Lord. If they did, they would have repented & stepped down from ministry (even if just for a season).

    The Bible already says to do this…without any amendments from men. If they won’t follow the Word of GOD…why would they follow an amendment?

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