Skip Waffle/ Updated

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  1. Dave Rolph says:

    I was wondering about this. Usually when the wording of the denial sounds strange it is because it is “technically” true, but…


  2. Babylon's Dread says:

    Sweetzig zagging

  3. Michael says:

    The Skipper is digging himself a deeper hole by the day…I’ll repent of my amusement at church tonight. 🙂

  4. Michael says:

    My prediction…Sweet will speak due to “contractual obligations” with the vendor, thus getting Skip off the hook and allowing the show to go on.

  5. Dave Rolph says:

    I love a good controversy where I don’t care one bit as to how it turns out. 😉

  6. Michael says:

    Yep! 🙂

  7. jlo says:

    very funny

  8. Dansk says:

    God left Satan around to take of this sort of sniping and biting – why dont’t you just go back to your lives?

    You just don’t sleep at night unless you’ve taken a shot at someone’s reputation, do you?

    Hurt people hurt people.

    Get over it and move on.

  9. Jim Jacobson says:

    Drama. Just what we need. Sad. 🙁

  10. Michael says:


    This is a test case for character…if CCABQ caves in to the ODM’s then they will use the same tactics against every CC that doesn’t dance to their tune.

    Someone needs to send the Inquisition home…

  11. BrianD says:

    “Hurt people hurt people.
    Get over it and move on.”

    One of the mottoes of the evangelical circus.

  12. Michael says:

    Dansk gets upset whenever I question one of his gurus…

    The only hurt I presently have is in my crotch from the botched hernia surgery…I don’t blame Skip for that. 🙂

  13. Lutheran says:

    If this guy’s the Skipper…

    Then I guess that makes Len Sweet “Little Buddy.”


  14. Michael says:


    I’ll let you tell him that… 🙂

  15. victorious says:

    Michael is right on this one. Representatives of CCABQ gave their word before God and man for their facilities to be used for this event which is primarily designed to showcase the speakers and what they have to say, including Sweet.

    Jesus explicitly commands us to keep our word. To let our yes be yes and our No be no.

    Does the CCABQ leadership care about maintaining and modeling this aspect of living before and in the presence of the Man Christ Jesus or do they prefer to uphold their position and reputation according to the whims of superficial and fleeting public opinion?

  16. Michael says:

    Thank you, Victorious…

  17. Jim Jacobson says:

    So, do we have any confirmation of the timeline?
    Do we KNOW that CoA knew Sweet was going to be there when they rented the facility?

  18. Michael says:


    It’s been in the ad’s for months…

  19. Believe says:


    Can you tell it’s lunch time?

  20. Em says:

    Believe, 😆 i’ve been hungry for one of my favorite foods every time i stopped by here this morning – gimme waffles with pecans and maple syrup and some good sausage!
    reallly, really looking forward to my lunch (lean ground beef patty, green salad w/ vinegar and oil dressing) – not! – gimme waffles, nice fattening waffles!

  21. Believe says:

    Em…your pecan waffles sound deliciously sweet…but don’t skip the strawberries! 🙂

  22. Believe says:

    ….ughhh…ate too many sweet waffles…I better skip the sausage…or I’m gonna rolph…but don’t sweat it…I’ll just hop on over…pay a few cents and get me an x-lax…err maybe some pepto…I’m dreading the pepto…needed some during a trip to london one time…had some bad pineapple…got so sick I was hearing another voice…it was puzzling…when I finally got up off the dusty bathroom floor in my hotel room…I was so hungry again, that I ordered a reuben sandwich from room service. It took forever…you’d a thought I was waiting my turn at the DMV. Fyi, it was the best reuben I ever had…no joshin’…I’m not alone in that opinion…believe me!

    Em & Em’s for dessert? 🙂

  23. victorious says:

    So are you wanting us to believe that one can be victorious in the trials that accompany food consumption? 😉

  24. Believe says:

    LOL 🙂

  25. Em says:

    Believe, no strawberries or whip’d cream on my waffles, thank you 🙂 just (real) maple syrup and, not too much) strawberry custard pie is pretty good, tho

    just ate my lunch with a large heaping (almost) carmelized sauteed onion – no calories and very diuretic (which is very different from that thing you mention needing Pepto for

  26. Em says:

    Dansk, this is just my opinion, but i seriously doubt that the devil bothers with ‘sniping…’ and i prefer to think that what i read here is honest attempts to sort ‘things’ out – things that apply to the real integrity of The Faith

    (the above is an example of my very best ‘pontificating,’ not to be confused with sniping) 😆

    time for my nap – really is

  27. JimB says:

    I wonder if Sweet’s lawyers talked with CoA’s lawyers and he was suddenly back on the schedule?

  28. Believe says:

    JimB…no way…they were “moved” by the spirit…the spirit of contract law.

  29. Babylon's Dread says:

    “Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.” Blaise Pasca

  30. SPQR says:

    “This is a test case for character…if CCABQ caves in to the ODM’s then they will use the same tactics against every CC that doesn’t dance to their tune.”

    And Michael is the chief inquisitor/muckraker…per usual…

  31. Michael says:


    Question for you…what website has been the only website to clearly defend Heitzig against the ludicrous charge that he’s “gone emergent”?

    You’re on it …

  32. Michael says:

    On the other hand, you only participate here when you think you have the opportunity to be a jerk.

    Once again, you’ve seized the moment..

  33. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I hope when it is completed that the talks are archived so we can watch and see what Leonard Sweet says if he is allowed to speak.

    Free Leonard Sweet!! Free Leonard Sweet!! Free Leonard Sweet!! Free Leonard Sweet!!

    Ahh, reminds me of the 60s. 🙂

  34. odenfong says:

    Did someone say “Leonard’s sweet?

  35. brian says:

    “Hurt people hurt people.”
    I beg to differ, actually went out of my way not to hurt the people that “hurt” me and I could have.
    I count that a personal failing, looking back I should have taken down as many as I could have, that would have been far more effective, thus christian.

    “Get over it and move on.” I remember this statement usually right after someone I loved died.

  36. centorian says:

    It just gets better and better…. I never have liked waffles…

  37. Em says:

    Leonard Sweet is so unimportant to me that i’m skating close to being a ‘busybody in other mens matters’ posting on this thread … but i’m softening toward the ODMs
    i’m serious; there is certain ‘type’ of person who is incapable of abstract thot (maybe that’s good – dunno) – if they find the Lord, all their yays are yays, but, sadly all their nays are neighs… they make earnest cops and lousy detectives…

    mebbe they are all Blaze Pascals 😉


  38. London says:

    what a bizzare thread

  39. Em says:

    i repent of my bizzareness and my jealousy of Leonard’s gorgeous hair

    God keep

  40. Believe says:

    G’night Em…God bless you 🙂

  41. Michael says:

    I only know what I’ve read…and the brief conversation we had via Facebook…but I like this guy.

    I think Sweet has some things to say I need to hear.

  42. London says:

    If he’s gonna be in town anyway…he should just drive over to Dread’s and talk there. :mrgreen:

  43. Michael says:

    He kind of reminds me of Dread… in a good way.

  44. London says:

    Then…it’s probably best if I don’t suggest he drive anywhere. someone will come by and pick him up. 🙂

  45. Michael says:


  46. London says:

    Seriously though, what does CCABQ think is going to happen if Sweet speaks? Someone might think something other than the prescribed and scripted thoughts you’re “supposed” to think if you attend church?

    What a crock…

  47. Michael says:


    Skip was being publicly tried on charges of being emergent and a compromiser.

    He pleaded no contest and hopes to get off easy…

  48. London says:

    how stupid…but nothing surprises me when it comes to church politics and game playing

  49. deadmanwalking says:

    The invited uninvited ??

    Just thinking of something that happened some years ago. A friend of mine had a speaker, and when the man he invited to speak was half way through his message, he had to get up and stop him and apologize to his congregation for inviting the guy in the first place. The weight a pastor feels when something is said that he knows is wrong and if he lets it stand uncorrected, his silence would have been an endorsement and he has to correct it in the venue it happened in.

    Now I know this won’t get a negative reaction because he was a pastor of a small CC, and the speaker was one of the big CC stars. And this pastor had the guts to just get up and tell everyone why he was wrong and point out what the Bible actually says. True he humiliated an invited guest. But he did what was right.

    I have no inside information as to all that has gone in inside Skip’s leadership and as to WHY he is doing this is pure speculation as far as I can see, therefore I have no opinion on the specifics of what Skip or anyone else in this situation is doing, just a reminder that when a pastor has a speaker at his facility he has a responsibility. Teachers will receive a greater judgment, not just before Christ, but that judgment begins to come in the moment he starts to teach. I found the judgment of man to be harsh on me, and I only hope that I will find the Judgment seat of Christ to be more merciful. 30 years of teaching several times a week, I have a lot to answer for. and as to any I invited to speak in our facility, I think I will be answering for what they said as well. It is part of the weight that comes with the calling. And I might ad a very unpleasant weight when you realize that someone you had speak is teaching heresy and you have to publicly correct it.

    Now again I am not saying anyone mentioned is a heretic just saying the weight of these decisions is a heavy one. I only hope Skip and his leadership are doing something more that just shooting from the hip.

  50. centorian says:

    That is why I am extremely cautious as to who I would invite to speak at our church. It is too important to settle for an “eat the meat and spit out the bones” approach.

  51. Michael says:

    If I had a year to investigate someones doctrine I think I could pull it off…this isn’t about protecting sheep, it’s about covering your ass.

    It won’t work…but that’s Mondays article… 🙂

  52. Babylon's Dread says:

    Ok send Leonard on over… we will host him for the whole conference.

  53. deadmanwalking says:

    Michael – I am glad you bring these issues into the light to discuss. I don’t weigh in on most of this stuff. I am just bringing up what I always felt was a sacred trust. A pulpit that I had the responsibility of what ever was said from behind it. I don’t think a lot of pastors take that responsibility serious enough, and that could be the case here. I once had our liability insurance company try to get into our pulpit by me signing an agreement to end a lawsuit backed by TBN. Even though the paper they wanted me to sign was legally meaningless, i would not sign it on the principle that I was conceding that an insurance company or the courts had any say at all when it came to what I felt led to say from the pulpit. I do believe in the future that our religious freedom will be taken away not by the courts but by insurance companies that want to avoid lawsuits. Then it will be time for the church to go underground when they loose their building for a lack of insurance. Unlike Skip here I would never have let it get this far. If Skip disagrees with the doctrine of someone, he should have never allowed his facility to be used by anyone who holds to any doctrine he is not in line with. I may not agree with what Skip would call heresy, but Skip has the responsibility and had to answer to his own conscience about it. This is probably just what it appears to be. And I don’t dispute that. I just wanted the pastors here to pause and think about the sacred trust that God has laid on them and to be responsible and to now allow themselves to get to the point that this kind of stuff happens, be it a lack of being responsible, or just a fear of the ODMs. Either way the mistake was made a long time ago and has just come to light, and it was the mistake made at the very beginning of this whole mess that I hope men learn from and avoid…

    For one thing our property was never views as a means to generate income. We never rented it for any use. We allowed some to use it, but only those who I knew would glorify God. So you are probably right. this at the very least is a case of total carelessness on their part that does seem to be in line with what has happened before.

    But I happen to believe we can know enough about someone before we allow them to use our building or our pulpit to make a fairly sound decision. So it probably is just as you say at this time. They had to know enough before giving a green light to this one, and then when it become a public controversy try to back out. I do not defend or criticize anyone, Just wanted to throw out a thought.

  54. centorian says:

    market share…

  55. Believe says:

    ….”Church as a Business”…gotta make the strokes on the mortgage….and pay for that “beautiful facility”….

  56. Em says:

    Pastor DM, you’ve got me thinking… those big old stone churches of yesterday always have made me “feel” that they were built to glory of God… but i never considered today’s physical plants as anything more than just meeting places – dedications of same were just ceremonies… thinking, thinking, thinking… thank you.

  57. Believe says:

    SPQR said, “And Michael is the chief inquisitor/muckraker…per usual…”

    The PP is a form of Neo-Journalism…interesting you use the “muckraker” label…so even you consider it a form of journalism…though “yellow journalism” in your opinion.

    Michael’s “beat” if you will…is “The Church”…with an emphasis on reporting the goings on of CC’s…especially since there is no real accountability arm in place (by design).

    The Skipster is a public figure and fair-game. If he did nothing wrong…then he’s got nothing to worry about.

    My gut tells me he caved to pressure from the ODM’s because he doesn’t want to have any further controversy which will lead to more people leaving his church…and he needs all the butts in the seats (wallets in tow) he can get…to pay for the “beautiful facilities” and over-head he has created through his Ministry Machine…(Church as a Business).

    The downside is that his waffling in the face of the barking by the ODM’s has given them power…and they’ll grow bolder with this “victory” and guys like Sweet and other so-called “emergents” will continue to be the true victims of “inquisition” type mentality…when, clearly (at least to me) Sweet is not a heretic.

  58. Believe says:

    DMV said, “and then when it become a public controversy try to back out. I do not defend or criticize anyone, Just wanted to throw out a thought.”

    That’s the heart of it, IMO.

    Public Opinion matters more than principle, IMO…”shouldn’t” be…but that’s “reality”…

  59. Michael says:


    That’s a pretty fair analysis of what I think about the situation.

    I’m just grieved by it all right now…

  60. filbertz says:

    it’s as simple as let your yes be yes and your no be no. There is little room for controversy when you are guided by principle and take the time upfront to make a sound decision. Waffling just gets you pancaked.

    sad to see, too, that ‘don’t touch God’s annointed’ is still alive and well in some (small) circles. sigh.

  61. deadmanwalking says:

    Our facility was a synagogue before we bought it. It was just a simple building with no huge overhead. So we used to let people use it from time to time for no charge. Well we charged the cost of what it cost us to clean up after them and we charged them for our sound guy, but never asked a fee for the building. We had Koreans use it a couple of time. If they were heretics no one would know it because no one spoke Korean so that was pretty safe

  62. Believe says:


    No one at CCaBBQ would understand what Sweet says anyways…from some excerpts of “Quantum Spirituality”…he might as well be speaking Korean…way over most people’s heads 🙂

  63. Em says:

    you know, i don’t bother with any other blog sites, but this one – why is that? Even family blogs only get sporadic visits from me. For my part Michael is giving away for free something that is Faith reminding and building – even the rants and outrages are honest and, if valid concerns are posted, they almost always reach thoughful conclusions – Michael is a master at writing grabber topic headers (skip waffles? i don’t wanna skip em, i want to eat em) 😆 some have been impactingly distasteful, but gotcha right where you needed it…
    praying and asking forgiveness for not ‘on topic’ – quite

  64. Em says:

    my only exposure to philosophy was 101 (and i aced it) … thought it was a wierd way to spend one’s time … kind of like riding the outside horse on a merry-go-round and occasionally grabbing a ring (which only gave you the chance to go round in circles again) 😉
    give me Scripture!

  65. Believe says:

    Em…yes, give me Logos (The Word) and not logos (man’s reason)…unfortunately the reality is we are chained to the logos…and struggle to better understand the Logos…which is where the bulk of our problems come from.

    I groan for the Logos…and distrust the logos…and the spinning in circles is frustrating at many times.

  66. deadmanwalking says:

    Just thought I would throw out a little of Spurgeon

    CH Spurgeon said “Depend upon it, friends, if a straight line will not pay, a crooked one won’t. What is got by shuffling is very dangerous gain. It may give a moment’s peace to wear a mask, but deception will come home to you and bring sorrow with it. Honesty is the best policy. If the lion’s skin does not do, never try the fox’s. Be as true as steel. Let your face and hands, like the church clock, always tell how your inner works are going. Better be laughed at as Tom Tell-truth than be praised as Crafty Charlie. Plain dealing may bring us trouble, but it is better than shuffling.”

  67. Believe says:

    …and I agree…Michael is an excellent Neo-Journalist / Blogger.

    It is such a waste, IMO, for him to work behind the counter at a store or a bank. He has so much talent that is under-used in those endeavors.

    Praying God opens a door that better utilizes Michael’s talents to support his family…if it is God’s will for him.

  68. Believe says:

    DMV…some of us honestly tick different in our domes…I am one.

    It is not craftiness…it is a truly philosophical mind that has a difficult time accepting as “Logos” that which is interpreted for them by “logos”…other means reasoning.

    I wish I were created differently…I really do. I don’t enjoy it. I wish I could trust a man authority figure to tell me what is Absolute Truth…and I would submit to it.

    Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way…that no man exists that can do that for me…so I wrestle on….begging the Holy Spirit to help me discern…while fighting against temptation of too much cynicism, too much anger (due to frustration) and too much pride.

  69. Believe says:

    means = men’s

  70. Believe says:

    I was deceptive when I didn’t share my honest questions and pretended I didn’t wrestle with a variety of issues…and played the game.

    Honesty can be messy.

  71. Believe says:

    …the above was in reference to my growing up in the church as a pastor’s kid.

  72. Em says:

    DM’s #66 WOW, Spurgeon was good!

    as i understand it, the best steel knife is tempered and tempered and re-tempered – only the best artisan knows when it is exactly right – that is why certain knives are treasured by outdoorsmen

    as are certain teachers of the Word

  73. Em says:

    Believe,” I wish I could trust a man authority figure to tell me what is Absolute Truth…and I would submit to it.”
    desire it with all your heart and you’ll find that teacher – trust me on that – when there are none of them left, the Rapture will have occurred… IMO

  74. Em says:

    quantum was a common term heard around my house back a ways (& good old Max Planck) twas attached to all kinds of things and books that i willfully ignored – just dawned on me that i didn’t know what the word meant – so i looked it up 😀
    if philosophy can be “quantumized” – Sweet is a genius – still, not for everyone IMO – how sad to look for buzz words and pretend you get it – worse for-big ignoramuses, like me, to call someone a heretic cuz you heard a “bad” word
    (but at least i know it and don’t rush in and prove it – most of the time)

  75. Em says:

    uh oh! 4 in a row? (now 5) i’ve reached my daily comment limit

    God keep all close and comforted

  76. Linnea says:

    Believe said:
    “Public Opinion matters more than principle, IMO…”shouldn’t” be…but that’s “reality”…”

    So true and that’s what happens when you play in the realm of politics. It’s so easy to get snared in that net and so difficult to free oneself from the knots.

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