The Trump Verdict
“Don’t rejoice when your enemies fall; don’t be happy when they stumble.
For the LORD will be displeased with you and will turn his anger away from them.”
(Proverbs 24:17-18 NLT-SE)
My opinion of Donald Trump is well known…I think he’s evil.
Having said that, I think the Scripture above should inform the reaction of those who are like minded with me.
There will be as many outraged as are delighted by the result and the schism between us all will grow deeper and wider.
The verdict will be appealed and debated for a long time to come…and I think I choose to let the legal system play out before saying much at all.
I do pray that truth be told and righteousness done…wherever that leads.
We’re not going to let a war start here…incendiary comments either way will be moderated to the best of my ability.
I think I shall eat from the tree of life and let this poison alone.
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.”
For many of us, we hunger and thirst for a righteousness that applies equally to the billionaire as to the homeless.
Alan,
I feel very subdued about it….it simply hardens both sides.
Good bye, Thomas
Two things I think are true:
1. Trump has committed many crimes, scams and deceptions in the course of this life.
2. I think his trial was a kangaroo court orchestrated by his political enemies.
Be sure your sins will find you out.
Xenia,
I agree with the first statement…I think there is empirical evidence for that.
I’ve read the “kangaroo court” scenario a few hundred times now…that would require that 12 people (approved by the defense) were sold out to the Democratic Party in organized fashion.
That is possible…but what if they were simply voting on the evidence?I don’t want to believe the justice system is that corrupted…or corrupted in that way.
Remember OJ.
Xenia,
That was a shocker….
Not only 12 jurors approved by the defense, but access to the best trial lawyers that money can buy, which is a lot more than you or I would ever dream of having for our defense.
This on top of the agreed to jury, the defendant had a criminal trial procedure that is well documented and defined. If anyone tried to subvert the criminal procedure, the defendant would have an easy appeal.
Well, Trump’s long life of deception has reached its just conclusion but that does not mean it was not politically orchestrated by his enemies. Maybe he deserves those enemies.
I agree with Xenia. The Hoi polloi populists who support trump I don’t understand. Haley might have had a chance, but we’ll likely get a mid term Harris as POTUS, with Gavin Newsom as Veep, then likely PoTUS. As we’ll continue to slouch towards Bethlehem no matter who’s in office.
“the defendant would have an easy appeal”
Depends on the state. I suspect in either NY or California, he’d lose all the way up.
Either way, it’s a sad day for the republic.
“that would require that 12 people (approved by the defense) were sold out to the Democratic Party in organized fashion.”
They don’t have to be “sold out”, just biased against him. And in NY, they wouldn’t be hard to find.
“That is possible…but what if they were simply voting on the evidence?I don’t want to believe the justice system is that corrupted…or corrupted in that way.”
You may or may not be surprised at how many innocent people get convicted by juries that just voted on the evidence. It comes down to bias and the jury instructions.
“Not only 12 jurors approved by the defense”
You do know that both sides only have so many peremptory challenges? Many times they’re stuck with the jury they have, approved of or not.
I am impressed that the trial happened at all. In many countries, the defendant might have bought his way out of it, fled the country, or had the judge/key witnesses/other important court officials killed.
Xenia @ 6:41 pm,
“Be sure your sins will find you out.”
Karma and her sister Comeuppance will never be out of a job.
Xenia May 30, 2024 at 6:41 pm
Two things I think are true:
1. Trump has committed many crimes, scams and deceptions in the course of this life.
2. I think his trial was a kangaroo court orchestrated by his political enemies.
Be sure your sins will find you out.
For what (very little) it’s worth: Xenia nailed it.
Now comes the appeals, they hype, the false information, the “talk show ‘hosts'” spewing junk, etc…
Don’t forget all the calls of “civil war” that are already happening.
“I think his trial was a kangaroo court orchestrated by his political enemies.”
Apart from having these “thoughts”, I would be interested to know what evidence there is in law for such a statement…
Duane,
Very similar to what I have been addressing on the other thread.
That’s a genuine question; we might start with due process, venue selection, judge selection, jury selection, evidence allowed and disallowed, jury instructions. Quite a few other things if I were a legal mind but those were obvious. Not sure what kangaroo court means but I was not confused or in doubt about the outcome.
I will predict one or more of those things will bring a reversal but the damage will be done to the country and we will continue to politicize our courts and our lives. God help us.
Alan
I am seeing opinions, but I am not seeing any evidence in law. I also would need evidence that we have “politicized” our courts, or specifically, that this court was politicized. If anything, it seems that this court bent over backwards to accommodate this particular defendant. If you or I had 10 or 11 contempt of court citations we would not be sleeping at home…
Like I said we will see. Those issues I raise are legal issues. They are among those that will be adjudicated. Nothing I could say here will meet your standard so we will see. For sure Trump provoked that judge beyond measure but even that guys gag order is one that could be tossed on appeal. He’ll have his chance to jail Trump and I have confidence he will take it.
The courts in America have always been politicized. That part isn’t new. Court is a matter of who you are and where. Our courts are probably as good as humans can get but they still reek with human stain.
Alan
I lived in Midtown Manhattan for some years. During that time I served on two juries. If anything, what I have observed the most recent trial was much more sedate and settled than what I had experienced. I just think that before we toss around terms like “politicized” or claim that there was not due process, or claimed there was a flaw in jury selection, we should have an abundance of evidence in law. When it comes to contempt of court, one citation is usually enough to make you pull out your checkbook or to land you in a cell… Just saying…
I hope if you get charged with a felony they tell you what it is before jury instructions.
I’ll let you have the last word.
https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/People%20v.%20DJT%20Jury%20Instructions%20and%20Charges%20FINAL%205-23-24.pdf
pp. 30ff
Federal election law, state election law and tax evasion… The payments appeared to have violated all three statutes inclusive in the 34 counts…
All those decrying this verdict fail to understand that if it was ANYONE else other than Trump, that person would have been jailed for contempt multiple times. In this case, Trump was treated with kid gloves. Trump is no different than Al Capone and other gangsters and their minions on the threats and bullying to the jurors, prosecutors, judges. Trump should thank whatever god he serves that he has not ended up like gangsters in real life and in fiction (like Joe Pesci’s character in Goodfellas).
The only god Trump worships is the Unholy Trinity of Me, Myself and I.
I think Ghul is probably right along with the caveat that if it was ANYONE else this trial would never have happened at all. The Goodfellas reference was chuckles, add a bit of the Untouchables to that reference with De Niro as Capone.
I also think Bob1 is correct about Trump’s devotional loyalties. Though he might throw in his Baal worship.
Dread,
You seem to forget that this contempt, bullying, etc. by Trump and his Kool-Aid drinking followers also happened at the sentencing trial of the bank fraud. Even in civil trial proceedings, ordinary people would get jailed for contempt.
Also, if anyone else refused to turn over classified documents when asked, they would have been arrested (and before you chime that Biden did it as well, understand that Biden returned them when asked, Trump did NOT). Others were arrested, charged and went to prison similar offenses.
Again, Trump is getting treated with kid gloves. The judge in the bank fraud sentencing trial should have thrown Trump’s a*s in jail for contempt.
Try better next time.
The constitution is pretty much scrapped from amendments 1-10, save for 2 and 3, which here in Idaho #2 is taken as something like Sanctum Secorum (yes that is funny now that I reread it). Not that I disagree with the importance of it.
At any rate, any argument about a republic is moot. It is the way of history to simply wipe things away with the tides of time. Isaiah told us what God said:
9“Be broken, you peoples, and be shattered;
And listen, all remote places of the earth.
Get ready, yet be shattered;
Get ready, yet be shattered.
10“Devise a plan, but it will fail;
State a proposal, but it will not stand,
For God is with us.”
11For so the LORD spoke to me with mighty power and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,
12“You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’
Regarding everything that this people call a conspiracy,
And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it.
13“It is the LORD of armies whom you are to regard as holy.
And He shall be your fear,
And He shall be your dread.
14“Then He will become a sanctuary