The Weekend Word

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30 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    MLD,

    “let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.”

    What does Jesus mean by “peace”? What is actually being transferred or retrieved?

  2. Jean,
    I think it is a blessing of God’s peace (God’s Shalom) on the household that is helpful. It would be like entering the house and granting God’s peace on them.
    The second part would be if you found them not to be worthy, not believing in God, not believing your teaching – not helping to provide for your needs, t hen withdraw the blessing you gave the, and shake the dust from your feet.

  3. Jean says:

    That makes sense. Thanks.

  4. Em ... again says:

    this mission was given to the twelve named Apostles and, while i haven’t spent much time considering it, it does trouble me that some try to make this the Church’s assignment… if so, we’re not very good at it.
    ‘course i have heard that those JW’s like to shake any dust off that they may have picked up when trespassing on the property of those who reject their message – probably makes them feel better – for now…

    good lesson, good questions here

    FWIW – you’ve reminded me of a very dear cousin whose name was Byron and we called him Buddy

  5. Em, I look at it this way.These disciples had been previously called to follow Jesus in a way similar to our calling – but here he is calling 12 to establish an office of ministry. I think their subsequent call is different than ours.- when you say “it does trouble me that some try to make this the Church’s assignment…” – I think it is the clergy’s assignment as are others like it.

    So, I look to see who Jesus is speaking to to determine who is responsible for what.
    Many times he speaks to the crowds and some times he speaks to his disciples only.

    Jesus spoke to those called to ministry to institute the Lord’s and to “go into all the world…” among others – where us, the crowds. have been commanded to live in our vocations and to love our enemies.

  6. Nonnie says:

    When we lived in Manila, we had lots of Korean missionary friends. The first time they enter your house, before they even greet you, they take off their shoes and then bow their heads and silently pray a blessing over your home. Then they hug and greet and the evening begins. I always found this so beautiful and very meaningful to me.

  7. Josh the Baptist says:

    “Jesus is setting up the office of the ministry – the office of pastor.”

    I would like to know more about why you make that jump.

  8. Why would you consider that a jump. These guys were already called to follow. Do you not think that some are also called to ministry while others are not? As I said above do you not see Jesus giving different instruction and authority to them?

    I will admit that in reading ahead and in the other gospels, the jump is warranted.

  9. Josh the Baptist says:

    “Jump” meaning that it is not stated explicitly in the text. I’m just asking why you say this is the advent of the Pastoral office?

    I don’t mean jump, as in “illogical jump”.

  10. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As a commentator it is my job to connect the dots.
    This is no different than a commentator making the “jump” to the Trinity as there are no explicit texts – but at some point he must say, “this is it.”

    Is there a call to ministry in the gospels? If so where would you see it?

  11. Josh the Baptist says:

    Ok, forget I said jump.

    What is it that causes you to see this as the start of the Office of Pastor?

  12. Jean says:

    There’s a definite call to the ministry of pastor in Jesus “feed my sheep” conversation with Peter in John.

  13. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Perhaps I should have just stayed with the Office of the Ministry as I first stated and not have narrowed it to pastor – which would be included in such office.

    I guess I am having difficulty in seeing why you don’t see it. as I asked above “Is there a call to ministry in the gospels? If so where would you see it?”

  14. Jean says:

    There is no debate that Jesus gave a commission and commissioned some folks at the end of Matthew. I think the concern is over the meaning of the word “call”. Perhaps you could clarify that word, what it means, who gives it, how it relates to other vocations, etc. The main thing is it’s not a mystical call or anything like what Mormons say about their prophet, etc.

  15. Josh the Baptist says:

    No, none of that.

    I just wanted to understand why MLD thinks that verse 1 has to do with the the Pastorate.
    I’m missing it.

    Seems to be pretty specific calling of Apostleship, but not necessarily Pastoral.

  16. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – perhaps you missed it – I walked back the specific of office of pastor and left it at my original office of the ministry – which is just really more expansive and does include the office of pastor.

    The point is that out of ordinary called people are those who are called to ministry in a special way. It is at this point that Jesus is making the call – as the text says.

  17. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean, the ‘call’ from Jesus in his day is pretty direct – “hey you, I want you to come and do this.”

    Where it gets confusing to the 21st century mind is that Jesus is not here so the call is made through others – oh, like God using means to establish his ministry today.

  18. Josh the Baptist says:

    Ok. Thanks for hanging with me, there.

  19. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    What is the stacking order for judgment? I asked this in my comments for v. 15
    “Surely just a lack of faith comes in higher than immoral behavior? – No?”

    So many times we hear that doctrine is not important, or at least not that important – but that it is love and hospitality that show the true Christian faith. The sin of Sodom & Gomorrah seem to be just that – sins of action – inhospitable behavior, sodomy, general violence – they were not nice and loving.

    But here in Matthew, it seems that the sin of unbelief will get you a larger portion of judgment than lack of love. How do we handle that?

  20. Michael says:

    MLD,

    You’re twisting the argument and ignoring one of the main threads of Scripture.
    To be a Christian means that you believe, it is the starting point of the Christian life.

    However, the Scriptures invest a lot of ink in stating that the mark of a Christian is love, both on the vertical and horizontal plane.
    One who is loveless, yet calls themselves a believer, is spiritually and cognitively dissonant…

  21. Michael says:

    I’m not sure that the calling to apostleship is the same as the calling to pastoral office.
    They are different offices…

  22. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael
    Point #1 – they were not sent to believers – the whole message is that they were proclaiming the arrival of the kingdom of God – those who rejected the message (doctrine) were to come under great tragedy … it even speaks of the whole town.

    Point #2 – I previously walked back the “office of pastor” to my original naming of the Office of the Ministry.

    The point everyone wants to stumble on is there is a special call to ministry that is not meant for all.

    I will give what I consider a good example – what is commonly called the great commission. This is not a call to the masses but to this group of those previously called to ministry.

  23. Michael says:

    “This is not a call to the masses but to this group of those previously called to ministry.”

    I don’t believe that…we’ve been made a kingdom and priests…all of us.

  24. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “I don’t believe that…we’ve been made a kingdom and priests…all of us.”

    This is solely a vertical relationship – I am not someone else’s priest.

    Look at the commission and tell me which part pertains to the laity? You do not see a difference when he speaks to the 12 (the 11 in this case) and when he speaks to the masses?

  25. Michael says:

    The masses were usually mixed groups off believers and unbelievers.
    I believe that the pastoral office is commissioned to ‘equip the saints for the work of the ministry”…

  26. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    The Eph 4:12 verse seems to indicate not the works of “the ministry” – but works of ministry – works of service as several translate it. This is a training of vocation to neighbor – where as I read the great commission it is to – make disciples in a very particular way
    1.) going out
    2.) baptizing people
    3.) teaching them all things things Jesus commanded

    This is for – and I will say it because I am MLD 😉 the formal church and it’s workers – those called to the office of THE ministry.

    I know of very few lay folks who go out (because they have jobs and family to support) – who actually baptize those they come in contact with as they make disciples, nor do I see them hanging around with an individual long enough to complete their Jesus education.

    But as the verse says the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, – are actually given for this.

    I would say a pastor who does not do this is in sin – a lay person not.

  27. Em ... again says:

    1 “And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.”
    8 “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.”

    there is much value in this lesson, but if what MLD says is accurate about the commission, then this is Benny Hinn’s definition, also … just a side comment as i find much to dispute in the conclusion – but i am not a teacher, just studying

  28. Em ... again says:

    1 “And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.”
    8 “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.”

    there is much value in this lesson, but if what MLD says is accurate about the commission, then this is Benny Hinn’s definition, also – except for the pay thing 🙂 … just a side comment as i find much to dispute in the conclusion – but i am not a teacher, just studying

    if this posts in 2 forms – i apologize as i hit submit prematurely

  29. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em, actually Benny Hinn IS doing what a pastor should be doing – but he abuses it.

    My pastor is casting out demons every time he baptizes someone.

    But I think what gets missed is that these guys are called to ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ – even before doing the miraculous.

    And the towns will be judged if the do not listen to that proclamation.

  30. Em ... again says:

    #29 – ? hmmm….

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