Things I Think

You may also like...

82 Responses

  1. DavidH says:

    I’m glad the election season is over. I’ve grown so tired of the seething hatred exhibited by both sides.

    As Shelby Foote, Civil War historian said, “It was because we failed to do the thing we really have a genius for, which is compromise. Americans like to think of themselves as uncompromising. Our true genius is for compromise. Our whole government’s founded on it. And, it failed.”

  2. Michael says:

    DavidH,

    That’s a great quote…truth.

  3. nomans says:

    Ooh i noticed. I think what would have been worse than someone not noticing would be someone bugging you about a TGIF after the week we had on the blog. Articles aren’t not products and you’re not a commodity. Your our beloved friend.

  4. nomans says:

    #you’re… Dang tiny Droid keyboard.

  5. Michael says:

    Nomans…thank you…again. 🙂

  6. I don’t think that Roe v Wade is that big of a deal – so I don’t think that it matters one way or the other. I am from California – abortion was legal here before Roe v Wade.

    I don’t wring my hands over the “bad” behavior or “bad” choices of others – I concern myself with what I do.

    There is nothing being done more or worse today than in our previous human history.

  7. filbertz says:

    I noticed…just figured you were buried with work or responsibilities and would wait until you were freed up. I’ve learned a lot from my dogs on what impatience looks like. 😉

    #6 on leadership is so true. Leadership is in high demand, but the cost is steep too. I wonder which crucible the next great leaders will emerge from.

  8. BrianD says:

    What Nomans said 🙂

  9. I thought you won the lotto and ran off to Hawaii.I guess I was wrong. 😉

  10. Michael says:

    Thanks BrianD… I was on the road and I always feel guilty when I’m late.
    It’s all good.

  11. Michael says:

    Fil,
    I was wondering tonight what tragedy would bring us back together again…

  12. Michael says:

    MLD,

    If that happens you’ll find me in Geneva, not Hawaii. 🙂

  13. filbertz says:

    Michael,
    evidently it’ll be bigger than a ‘super-storm.’ Leadership is essential, but ‘followership’ is increasingly a lost art.

  14. Back to Roe v Wade – I think that Christians should back off this issue. We have not accomplished anything and have alienated many.

    We should just let the law be what it is and speak against people getting abortions and add a little shame to those who do.

    It’s legal to sleep around, get divorced and a lot of other things – but we don’t try to overturn those laws. But everyone knows the Church;s position… well, at least most of the churches.

  15. I opened a can of worms in my Sunday bible class. I started with the question “so, did you all survive the election?”
    I then got an earful about how we are going to hell in a hand basket morally in this country.

    But I told them “look, nothing has changed in 3,500 years. When Moses came down from Sinai, he found his people, who were at the foot of the presence of God, doing all the exact same immoral acts we do today .. so what’s the big whoop?”

    You know what, all 70 of the people chuckled, said I was right, and we proceeded through our Galatians 3 lesson.

  16. Michael says:

    MLD, when I agree with two of your posts in a row, it’s time for bed. 🙂
    Good words…see you all in the morning.

  17. YES YES YES to number 10!!!

  18. Em says:

    1-probably more noticed than Michael thought
    2-amen to that kind of giving
    3-plan B should have been plan A … at what point did the Church decide modesty was prudery, chastity was suppression and a big house that took two paychecks was a virtue? maybe this is where point 8 fits in?
    4-14+ years ago when we moved to this town in the Inland Valley, everything shut down for Thanksgiving, even restaurants (except hospitals) – no big box stores yet as i recall
    5-sad, but my opinion is that there are no profound thoughts left to be said
    6-great leaders? perhaps, but also bad ones
    7-in this life only is there hope in Christ? that would put us on the losing side of snatch and grab
    8-ya think? hmmm
    9-i love those faith-filled ladies … where have they all gone? men too … would i have given him money? don’t think so … some food, if available and prayed as i drove away … not as good? probably not
    10- Adrian Peterson? had to look him up … there’s more out there like him, but they don’t play football and they just suck it up, go back to work, do their job, carrying their load and probably somebody else’s … God sees

    God keep all close and comforted

  19. London says:

    #9. Did she give him money or food or just pray for him?

  20. Nonnie says:

    1. I certainly noticed that “Things” was not up yesterday. I checked in several times during the day hoping it was posted, but I didn’t say anything as I assumed you were so busy with work, church, parenting…life, that you didn’t need some old lady bugging you about an article that could wait until Tue. Blessings to you, my friend!!

  21. London says:

    #5. We held an election. No one died. The poll sites were crazy busy. Sounds like a “win” to me.

  22. London says:

    Went out on Saturday and fed, clothed, visited and prayed for homeless folks in three parks and the alleyways downtown. Wasn’t church sponsored, just a bunch of folks doing what they do to support each others ministry.
    First guy we ran into was Tommy. A believer whose one admitted addiction was captain crunch cereal. He buys it once a month. He’d just sat down in the park and finished off the whole box before we got to him.
    He spoke the truth to those kids about greed, compassion and love for others. I seriously doubt they heard him although they all liked him. Dude could preach, that’s for sure.
    I was so proud of those “kids” out there doing their thing.iving out what they had been taught, with no super cool mega church tshirt or pizza party waiting for them when they were done.
    Next day, hung outside in a park near a school in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in this town, having church. Felt like old home week even though I’d never met most of them. Looking forward to good things in the community there in the future. Not sure what exactly, but we will see.
    Meanwhile, we are tone of the beneficiary groups for a big charity drive of a group we’ve connected with online a few years ago. Every day I find out about more people joining is in our food drive. Believe it or not, a denominational group called us up and asked us if we needed some $ for our project. That NEVER happens! We got a rather large sum (for us) which covers about 1/3 of what we needed.
    Found out there’s a girl scout troop and an elementary school collecting food for us too.
    Crazy good stuff going on! It’s not easy stuff…but it is good stuff

  23. Nonnie says:

    London, your 21…….I love that!!! Wonderful post!!!

  24. brian says:

    As I understand it Sandy was God’s wrath and we all have it coming and even worse. As for the victims if they were not prepared to be on their own they also have it coming remember autonomous and anonymous. Abortion is an awful experience but being the Satanic piece of human trash that I am I should not note that, I got that part of the Christian message in spades. I really did.

    The “deterioration” of the family is measured in economic means, return on investment and other such instruments, that is more sure then gravity. We only have great leaders if they can produce the second they cant they are consigned to the fires of hell, as is fitting to all who fail to produce in the new economy.

    His first sin was soliciting donations outside the apologetic, all such requests should be met with anger and even violence because Christ loathed those that asked for help. Well actually he did not but that is another post. A request no offense but, it is not good news from the cheap seats it is not and never will be. Can I request we stop calling it that. Thanks .

  25. sarahkwolfe says:

    I agree with the others…we noticed, but also are aware of the many responsibilities you have. That said, seeing the thread this morning was like a sigh of relief that you are still thinking 😉

    Regarding #9, my NT professor at Westmont had an interesting final exam for his Life of Jesus class one year. He had a friend dressed as a homeless man sitting on the steps of the Religious Studies building. The exam was simple…how many noticed him and acted on all the rhetoric of caring.

    As I remember, not many passed the final….even though a homeless man on the campus in Santa Barbara hills was something rather striking.

  26. I preface this mornings reaction to your thoughts with the fact that I didn’t get nearly enough sleep last night and I’m feeling a bit ornery.

    1. I noticed, but I’ve been so busy with life that I barely read through the article let alone the comments. I did wonder if things were alright in your life.

    2. I think that’s the best way to go.

    3. Fundies don’t have a plan B, because that’s not God’s way. God only has one plan. 😀

    4. And Easter and Christmas eve and Sundays.

    5. And the bankers and wall street won. 😀

    6. Leadership is a difficult thing. I think we’ve seen that in our culture, you cannot hide any of the personal problems that leaders of the past were able to do. Also, leadership requires courage and conviction, something that is highly lacking today.

    7. Personally, I’m glad there is more than this life. Some days I hurt, physically and emotionally.

    8. “Pain exceeds payoff” going to have to keep that in mind. Some church members are going through a rather nasty separation. The husband is a mess and every time he screwed up big time, they have marriage issues. He then turns into a whiny desperate man who’s sole attention is trying to make the relationship work, at least until she takes him back. Then he goes back to being a jerk to his wife. (Not to side track conversation.)

    9. Well, I guess someone needs to stop and pray for you that you become more Christ-like. 😉

    10. Waste of time. 😉

  27. Michael says:

    Sarah,
    I remembered you telling me that story as I was leaving the scene.
    I had no food or money with me, so I assumed I had nothing to give…not a good assumption.

  28. Rob Murphy says:

    Adrian Peterson serves as an illustration of character in the church.

    Because nobody runs like that anymore, the NFL experts have devalued the marquee running back. Don’t make a priority of that type of player – don’t build an offense around that type of player. Don’t try and do THAT.
    The marquee back isn’t around because nobody runs like that anymore.
    Until someone does run like that . . . then we wonder what makes a guy run like that?
    What makes a guy work so hard to overcome an impossible to overcome injury?
    What makes him run with anger and abandon and determination?
    Maybe some kid, somewhere in his backyard decides to run like that.
    But most don’t, won’t, or can’t.
    So…
    Then we craft an offense that doesn’t require anyone to run with character like that.
    Then we mock “old school” teams that have such a parochial approach.
    Then we change what greatness means.
    Then we change the rule book to accommodate the “new” game.

    Then someone comes along and just does it the way it was meant to be done and we look like cavemen discovering fire.

  29. Josh Hamrick says:

    Dang Rob. That was profound. Well done!

  30. Paul A. Lytton says:

    Re – #6

    There is an old saying: “If no one is following, you are not leading. You’re just going for a walk”.

    I like to add: “If you don’t know where your leader is going, you have no right to complain when you get where they are”.

  31. Nonnie says:

    Well, I looked up Adrian Peterson online, read Wiki about him and I still have no idea what Rob’s number 28 means. Rob, what you wrote really sounds like I should be getting some sort of meaning out of it, but sadly, I don’t. Sorry….I know zip about NFL.

    Carry on! 🙂

  32. Josh Hamrick says:

    1. I noticed, and mentioned it in the other thread, but was trying to be respectful of your real life situation. Still, better late then never.
    2. I’m glad your church helped, and found a efficient way of doing so.
    3. Roe v. Wade isn’t going to be overturned…probably ever. That ship has sailed, and has proven to be an ineffective way to fight. I was asked to preach Sunday Night at the last minute, I didn’t have a sermon prepared, so I led a discussion about this very thing. “How can we be good citizens in a sinful culture?” We pulled several examples from scripture, and then specifically discussed abortion. I was really terrified to open up that discussion with 100 or so conservative Christians, but I was amazed. The love and understanding that flowed in that room was nothing other than the Holy Spirit. Oh, I praise God for putting me in such a weird little place that is not glamorous, but is so very different from facebook.
    4. We should. I think Thanksgiving is now my favorite holiday. Food, family, and football. Hard to beat.
    5. Though everyone knows I don’t vote, I was actually relieved by the outcome. Here’s hoping for a good 4 years, and some more interesting possibilities in the next election. I was very disappointed with the outcome of the NC governor race, but this is the point where I have to say, hey, I didn’t vote, I can’t complain.
    6. I’m so sick of leaders, I could care less. I agree with whoever already said that we need followers.
    7. Amen.
    8. Kinda scary.
    9. I sat at the jail for about two hours Sunday afternoon listening to an accused killer pour his heart out. We cried and talked about about God and life through a 4″ x 8″ hole in the wall.. This man is sick, he’s not an animal. My heart goes out to him so much. I confess that I broke the rules. I reached through the hole and held his hand as we prayed together. God was so real at that moment, I didn’t want to ever leave.
    10. I love running backs. I hate passing. Good for Minnesota.

  33. Kevin H says:

    Nonnie,

    Here is an attempt of explanation for you on Rob’s #28. I thought it was excellent.

    Adrian Peterson plays the position of Running Back (RB). He is probably the best RB in the NFL (and also happens to play for Michael’s beloved Vikings). In the old days of the NFL, the RB was the focal point of many offenses, and in order to be successful, you had to have at least one good, if not great RB. In many cases, the RB was not flashy or glamourous, but was a player who simply continued to run and work hard and grind through the heavy workload given to him.

    Over the years, the NFL has morphed more into a league that is enamoured with the flash and glitz of the Quarterback and his Receivers and throwing the ball rather than running it. In a lot of cases, the RB is now relegated to secondary importance, if that. Even if the RB is really good, he is still often overlooked (believe me, I know, I’m an Eagles fan). To rely on the RB nowadays is thought to be old fashioned and out of touch. Certainly the QB and his Receivers and the passing game is more exciting, the thought is.

    Then along comes Adrian Peterson and the Vikings decision to make him of primary importance in their game-planning. As Rob said, “Then someone comes along and just does it the way it was meant to be done and we look like cavemen discovering fire.”

  34. Em says:

    Rob’s #32 has me wondering IF it is possible for much of the mindless vitriol that i hear ascribed to conservative Believers’ facebook postings could be bogus? the only time i ran across church-going people with the prejudicial, hostile mindset that everyone seems to be complaining about was in one mid-west state where i spent some time – us waay over the hill folk excepted, of course – we don’t like anything 🙂

  35. Em says:

    should have said that Rob’s comment on point 3 in his post @32 … someday i’ll get it thru my head that someone might actually try to read my comments

  36. Nonnie says:

    Thanks Josh for the interpretation of tongues. 😉 I see what he was getting at now.

    Em, sadly I believe that people will WRITE things on FB that they would never say in person. It would just be too harsh for the listener to deal with, on both sides.

  37. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    #10- Adrian Peterson is a violent running back and he abused the Lions Sunday. Credit must also be given the the Vikes O Line as they won the battle in the trenches against Suh and his line mates. The NFL has become a supersized version of Arena Football the last few years so its nice to see my Vikings playing smash mouth. A tough schedule awauts the Vikings after thier bye week but I think they can win 4 of 6 and I’ll be happy.

  38. Babylon's Dread aka Alan Hawkins says:

    WE all noticed … the missed articles… checked obsessively… couldn’t sleep …. and are glad to have this SITUATION resolved. Don’t do it again.

  39. Another Voice says:

    I do not understand the use of the “we” in many of these posts.

    For example, “we” did not all lose with the election. Many, many people won as the ideas they support won the day at the polls. Obamacare will now be fully implemented for example, and that is a big win for many people who support it. Likewise other issues could be referenced.

    I certainly lost, but I don’t speak for any “we” – I imagine a lot of pastors said just that on Sunday, “Well, we lost Tuesday” which would be quite dismissive and insulting to those in the congregation (and they are there) who voted differently than the pastor.

    Certainly the proposition is not that every day on this earth is a losing day until the Lord returns. Let’s perish that thought. A free and clean transfer of power (even among incumbents) is quite a winner in my book. A lot of brothers and sisters in Christ worldwide can only dream of such a thing.

    (Peterson went to a great college. They taught him all he knows…LOL 🙂 )

  40. Michael says:

    AV,
    We all lost in that we are more entrenched in our tribes and more content with being separated. The things we spoke to and about each other still echo. Of course, that’s just what I think…thus,the name of the article.
    Your mileage may vary…
    Back to work …

  41. Another Voice says:

    Still don’t know if the ‘we’ is the Body of Christ, America at large or whatever…

    I guess I still don’t understand the sort of unity being sought around here lately then…the Bible has a lot of division in it when I read it, even to the point of calling for separation.

    I do understand that Lutheran, Josh, Xenia, and I have unity where it matters – even though we all disagreed (for different reasons) on the recent political battle. And if we were in Egypt, China, North Korea or scores of other nations, we would be in the same foxhole so to speak.

    America has never had politcal unity, except when we were in war against non-Americans (and often not even then). And the Body of Christ is warned not to have unity with the pagan.

    (And points #4,6,8 also had that confusing ‘we’ – confusing to me at least)

  42. Ixtlan says:

    no one noticed….. h*ll yes, we noticed! and I was disappointed…. as busy as you have been I thought you didn’t have time……nor did you need me pestering you about it! perhaps a bad assumption on my part?

  43. Ixtlan says:

    “When we protest the deterioration of the family do we include the growing number of businesses that are requiring people to work on Thanksgiving?”

    It is also those same deteriorated family members that will flock to the stores…..

    anything to make a buck, anything to save a buck….

    it’s really all about money

    how can we serve God when we serve Mammon with all our heart, soul and mind?

  44. Michael’s comment about family and Thanksgiving is funny. I find that many families only renew the feud when they get back together at each Thanksgiving.

  45. If being employed is part of the 2012 list of things to be thankful for then I’ll go to work, do my job and thank each person who shows up to keep me employed.

  46. (=!-o says:

    i am so jealous of the guitar that i decided i need my own logo … 1st try

  47. Tim says:

    “We held an election and we all lost…no matter who you voted for.”

    I’d agree with that. In fact, I’d agree with it if the election had gone the other way as well. There were no good candidates anywhere.

  48. Let me help, (=!-o
    what are you trying to say about yourself, to others in your symbol?

    Post a sentence that you would say sums you up, to a stranger on an elevator that you will only share for 45 seconds, but you want them to tell a memorable story about you to their spouse over dinner

  49. Paige says:

    Of course we noticed, as BD stated above, ‘obsessive checking’, 🙂 Hope all is well…. Love that “Thing” #9 about the guy/dog/woman at the rest stop. Awesome…..

  50. Dave Rolph says:

    Even if Roe v. Wade were overturned, it wouldn’t save a lot of lives. The invention of the 3D Ultrasound has more potential to destroy abortion than all the Justices, Lawyers, Politicians, and protesters in the world. Those pictures are amazing! I’ll bet they’ve already prevented thousands of abortions. But there are other avenues for social change as well. The arts have great potential (and I’m not talking about the corny Christian propaganda of posters and t-shirts.) I saw an episode of House that was the best apologetic against abortion I’ve ever seen. Dr. House was trying to talk a girl into aborting her baby in order to save her own life. He is a strong atheist who considers an unborn child to be just tissue. House tried everything to talk the girl into an abortion but she wouldn’t budge. He ultimately agreed to a risky surgery that involved a Caesarean to deliver the preemie baby. As he was delivering the tiny baby, a little hand came out and grabbed his finger. Later, after mother and baby were fine, Dr. House was sitting alone in his office, staring at his finger. It was one of the most moving things I’ve ever seen on television. There is more than one way to save a life.

  51. Dave Rolph,
    Thanks”

  52. (=!-o says:

    G., so my old lady in her tipped over rocking chair isn’t saying anything about me?

  53. (=!-o says:

    G., as a young-to-middle-aged lady, i learned quickly not to talk to strangers in elevators 🙂 i can’t remember anything meaningful said in an elevator beyond, “which floor?”

  54. Paige says:

    Amen. Dave in comment #51…..

  55. Another Voice says:

    I find myself in some agreement and much disagreement with Dave.

    Look, illegality reduces (not eliminates) behavior. I smoked pot in high school, gave it up in college when I was subject to random drug testing as part of being a college athlete at a Division I school. But when I got out of college I never went back to smoking pot – even though I got loaded 2-3 times a week at least on booze. The reason is solely because of the illegality. I wasn’t about to risk my job and reputation trying to score illegal drugs or hanging out where they were being consumed. If pot was legal, I have no doubt I would have smoked it during the last of those B.C. years of my life. Why not?

    If we make euthanasia legal in this country, does anyone think we would not have a rapid increase in the taking of life of the elderly and infirm?

    So there can be no surrender to one day getting the judges on the Supreme Court to toss out Roe. Which by the way would NOT make abortion illegal but puts the issue back to the states rather than creating a new Constitutional right.

    Of course, that is a narrow political battle that takes place basically once every four years (not counting primaries and of course midterm Senate battles which are also crucial for confirmation). Yet much of what we could do to reduce abortions and save babies is hindered by Roe.

    And where I agree with Dave is on the power of the ultrasound. That is why prolife groups have been pushing legislation to mandate ultrasounds so the woman can make an informed ‘choice’ and of course that is why those who profit from baby killing (a billion dollar industry since Roe) scream bloody murder (pun intended) whenever something like the Virginia ultrasound bill is passed. Same as they do when anything like a waiting period or parental consent bill is suggested.

    And it is the same argument as with abortion itself. With the same political bombast. Here is a sample:

    Sen. Barbara A. Favola (D-Arlington), one of the most outspoken critics of the ultrasound bill, called the language: “just stunning. . . . It’s just a gross example of the way they treat women, with such disrespect.”

    And this is after the bill was greatly altered to eliminate the vaginal ultrasound – which is a big deal considering most abortions are first trimester (when a 3D ultrasound is not really as effective).

    So what good is the technology to really save babies, if the powers that be use their political muscle to keep pregnant women from ALL the facts?

    If we insist on showing 3-D ultrasounds in sex-ed class in the public schools along with the condom lesson (and in my opinion, along with a viewing of ‘Silent Scream’) how many will mock and deride those political right wingers who have ‘confused their kingdoms’, ‘ought to be focused on preaching the gospel’ yada yada…

  56. Another Voice says:

    I will note with Dave that there does seem to be a higher level of pro-life attitudes in Hollywood shows and movies – for whatever reason – and that is a good thing. I was reading an article about these different shows out there, all of which have the woman decide to keep the baby, though abortion is argued as a perfectly normal and understandable option. The abortion crowd actually is getting a little upset. I bet the House episode Dave mentions would blow their gaskets.

    Quite a cry from the Reagan era 1980s, and movies like Dirty Dancing, conveniently set in pre-Roe days with a botched backroom abortion as key to the plot.

    I still recall a typical teenage sex/drugs movie where the girl gets an abortion after the boyfriend dumps her, only to go back to the guy afterwards. Early 1980s that one.

    But the seminal 1980s movie for a guy my age in High School was Fast Times at Ridgemont High. People still quote lines from that movie today and if you say “Mr. Hand” or “Spicoli” most people know the character.

    People though forget how that ridiculous comedy chose to throw in an abortion plot, which is done so matter-of-factly us in the audience watching think abortion is like taking a pair of jeans that don’t fit back to the Gap.

    Basically the only lesson is that you should not be a jerk as a guy and refuse to pay for half and give the girl a ride to the clinic. And that was a lesson I learned and committed towards as a clueless, sexually active, teenager. Just be cool and give the girl a ride and help her out with the cost if this should happen to you.

    Tragic.

  57. Ixtlan says:

    3d ultra sound.

    It was incredible to see the detail of the face of my grandson when he was pushing his face against the wall of his mommy’s womb.

  58. j2theperson says:

    3d ultra sounds–cool but also kind of creepy. Quite honestly, my baby looked like an evil demon mummy. My husband didn’t even want to look at those pictures. The regular ultrasound pics were much prettier.

  59. cybercrank says:

    j2theperson, please don’t be offended j2theperson but one of your ultra sound pics looked like the little guy was holding a blunt. I felt really guilty about the LOL if that helps. :/

  60. j2theperson says:

    Holy crap, cybercrank. I just went back and looked, and you’re right. Hilarious. :p I hope that doesn’t presage things to come.

  61. Dave Rolph says:

    Of course if you could make all abortions illegal there would be less abortions. But that isn’t going to happen in our lifetime. The only real change will come when people are persuaded. If people want abortions they will find a way to get them, and it will be as easy as it was for AV to buy dope. With today’s technology, anyone with Internet access can figure it out with a couple of clicks. And the battle for life will not be won by people who think we can cram this down a woman’s throat. Either we persuade or we lose. AV’s political approach is emblematic of why the Republican Party has become almost irrelevant.

  62. Another Voice says:

    I would argue the irrelevance of the Republican party has to do with its economic message and not its social message – and I have last week’s election results to back me up…where social conservative state ballot measures did consistently better than the Romney ticket – even when they lost, they lost by far less than Romney – Romney of course running on almost a 100% economic message only with narry a word about social issues.

    And yes, abortion is directly tied to an economic message and the end result of a society where men show no commitment, where the state takes the place of the father and/or husband, and where a woman’s control over whether or not she has a child on her terms is crucial to her longterm economic survival in most cases.

    And I don’t give a damn about the future of the Republican party. Maybe something valuable could be salvaged from that rotting carcas, but I doubt it.

    I do care about the killing of babies. And I do see that we are in agreement that:

    A) Less babies would be murdered if abortion is illegal. (Though, to repeat, Roe being overturned would not make abortion illegal)

    B) Doctors who are hell bent to kill babies for profit will still have customers.

    The way we will persuade is with the tools we have for persuasion – such as the 3D ultrasound. Such as the testimony of those who claim abortion was a horrible decision and one they regret daily. I can’t even get a flu shot without having to read literature about the risks involved.

    I am a realist that wants to save babies and for that to happen Roe must be overturned so that the sorts of measures that actually would influence women to keep their babies can be practiced – even while keeping abortion legal (which most states would no doubt do).

  63. Another Voice says:

    At the risk of making a poor comparison (for there is no comparison on the moral level), I think the smoking of cigarettes is a good example of how a combination of increased information and access to it, coupled with political muscle has turned public opinion so that there are far less smokers today than there was 40-50 years ago.

    Smoking is still legal. Cigarettes still purchased. And the less educated and the poorer populations are more likely to smoke – but there has been a clear decrease over the decades. Maybe that decrease is now as much as it is going to ever get. The anti-smoking folks keep trying for more. We will see.

    If the pro-lifers had the conviction and passion of the anti-smoking zealots out there, maybe a similar success could be had.

    But remember, nations have always killed unwanted babies. Always. It won’t stop until the Lord returns. However, God still had plenty to say in the Word about His people using their influence to stop it when they could.

  64. London says:

    Sheesh.

  65. Nonnie says:

    Honestly, if highly educated people, in high places (currently, the highest office in the land) can argue for partial birth abortion for a full term baby, do we really think scans are going to changes people’s minds?
    Throughout history some people groups have sacrificed their children for good crops, or to appease their gods in some way, and it must have seemed the logical thing to do….so today, in many minds it is the logical thing to abort babies to the gods of happiness, convenience or the god of education, etc, etc..

    I don’t think we are going to un-ring that abortion bell here in the states.

    Come Lord Jesus.

  66. (=!-o

    Sorta like the FedEx logo’s arrow between the “E” and the “x”, once you see it you can’t unsee it

  67. “God still had plenty to say in the Word about His people using their influence to stop it when they could.”

    If one really believes that one could actually band together a group of pastors, demand an audience with the leader of the movement which turns a blind eye and deaf ear to the continued affiliation of a certain pastor and demand that the leader remove suspend the affiliation immediately for that pastors act of suing his stepson. One could also call out for shame the leader of that movement for inaction and obfuscation by refusing to bring that pastor to a period of arbitration with his estranged family.

    I await the day that I see in the land of the living those so bold as to stand up to acts of injustice committed against actual persons, thereby qualifying themselves to make demands about potential persons.

  68. Leadership is earned by an example of service and risk, not the mere occupation of a position while droning empty words of inaction. Better that ones pulpit be shrouded in cobwebs as ones congregation be in the parking lot of its mother church following and supporting its leader while he is hammering demands on a Costa Mesa door

  69. I wonder what ( |o )====::: is talking about? I think he is sleep walking / sleep talking / sleep blogging.

    WAKE UP G!!!!

  70. “people using their influence”

  71. Everyone uses their influence. My grandkids do it to me all the time. 🙂

    And leadership is not earned – it is assigned.

    Respect is earned.

  72. Leadership, in our country, is framed as “public servant”, and most definitely earned.

    A “leader” at our org was recently dismissed, less than a year on the job, because he was autocratic, demanding his way only, not willing to enlist those who had “lesser positions” but had been on the job for many years. He quickly proved himself to be arrogant and was escorted out, none too soon.

    Back to the issue at hand, when will those who can, act?
    Only when their conviction of the heart out motivated their self interest and self preservation.

    Losing the perks by speaking out, calling injustice what it is and demanding change from those who occupy positions where they can act is the thing the founders of the nation did, the thing the Union did when calling out The Confederace, the thing the woman’s suffrage movement did, and the thing the Equal Rights Movement did.

    Sadly, moralizing within religious movements ends when self interest is at stake.

  73. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I moderated those comments…I have neither the time or energy to officiate a pissing match.
    Thank you for your consideration.
    I’m off to work.

  74. Michael,
    You have better manners than I do. 😉

  75. MLD,
    Guess we’re overdue for lunch 😉

    Do I need to make a pizza offering?

  76. (=!-o says:

    my late husband said that he intended to vote for Obama … he was an incredibly smart, independent thinking conservative, i voted for Obama in his memory as he didn’t make it to election time
    i’m listening to Obama’s press conference as i type, agreeing with 80% of the intentions and ideals that he is presenting (i do not identify them with his party) … realizing that our two major political parties have got to be stopped – BOTH parties are killing the country – i pray that Obama has gained the confidence to be that strong leader that will manage to bring all patriotic (true ones) interests to prevail – God save the President

    just sayin – cuz folks are talking about leaders here

  77. (=!-o says:

    … and MLD is correct @ his #72 🙂

  78. ( |o )====::: let’s do lunch next week. You pick the place and the time.

  79. Nonnie says:

    Amen, Rocking chair lady!

  80. Another Voice says:

    to stand up to acts of injustice committed against actual persons, thereby qualifying themselves to make demands about potential persons.

    not the mere occupation of a position while droning empty words of inaction.

    moralizing within religious movements ends when self interest is at stake.
    ———————————————–
    G, you and I are very different in a lot of ways and beliefs. However, I have mostly understood where you are coming from, (and why), as you have expressed yourself here at PP.

    I reread my words and see that I expressed my strong opinions, why I hold them, and of course why I hope others would agree.

    I do NOT see where I judge without knowledge those in this community, or seek to dictate the calling and service of others as they serve the Lord.

    Even just the red letters will show you how wrong that is to do. “What about this man?” was asked and answered by the Lord. As was a certain truism about being judged by Jesus through the same standard you judge others. Red letters all.

    So I will simply say that if you knew even a fraction of what constitutes my service, commitment and involvement in this life – those earlier posts would lead you to sackcloth and ashes. That’s my spiritual answer.

    Put another way…you don’t know jack####.

  81. I may not know jack#### when it comes to all you proudly assert about your service but I do know the following to be reality…

    “to stand up to acts of injustice committed against actual persons, thereby qualifying themselves to make demands about potential persons” is what the watching world expects of religious leader/servants, and people in civilized Western countries deem this as reasonable from even the most cursory readings of our sacred texts

    “not the mere occupation of a position while droning empty words of inaction” is a standard that even the simplest amongst us expects

    “moralizing within religious movements ends when self interest is at stake” continues to be demonstrated, sadly, by those who know of CCV’s issues and could do something about it but don’t

    even to the timestamp of this post

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.