Things I Think

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89 Responses

  1. Xenia says:

    The church is not dying, it’s changing<<<<

    Neither.

  2. Alex says:

    I think the “church” already died a long time ago, in general.

    What’s left is more of a bunch of competing businesses clamoring for market-share.

    9,000 to 30,000 different Sects and agendas and “our version is correct!” etc.

    Societal Consensus is changing…it continues to evolve…what is true and “good” today was not true and good 100 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago, 3,000 years ago etc.

  3. Nonnie says:

    Number 7 on church membership. I’ve never been an official “member” of a church, as my tribe doesn’t have membership. After reading some of the abusive things going on at the Village Church and Mark Driscoll’s church, I don’t feel I am missing anything. I have never suffered any abuse in the churches I have attended and or served in, that do not have an official membership.

    As for the young woman from Village Church, I say she should continue to walk (make that run!) away from those creepy men as fast a possible. Who cares if they want to discipline her. Shake the dust off your feet and forget them. I am sure there are good churches out there that would welcome her with open arms and not give a hoot about what another church says about her. What she does is between her and the Lord. The issue was not her sin, but her husband’s. (ex husband) If a new church wanted to look into her “former” membership and received a negative report, and after speaking with her, had a problem with it, then I would imagine that would be red flags warning her off that church, as well!

  4. Alex says:

    The Village is just another terrible example of a semi-cult similar to what we’ve seen over and over in Calvary Chapel…just change the theology a little and add an official membership.

    Same cult-like dynamics in play. Same abuse and corruption (in general).

    These should be labeled what they are: Cult-like and dangerous places…don’t support them, don’t trust them, keep an eye on them, report them at every turn.

  5. SJ says:

    Memorial Day Quote….any other gooduns?

    “It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” – General George S. Patton

  6. Judy says:

    I would like to see the Biblical example these church uses for covenants. I just don’t remember Paul or Timothy or any of the apostles handing out covenants for people to sign.

    I don’t know why people sign these covenants. I would never, ever sign one and I don’t take membership in churches because I belong to God, not the church. The church doesn’t own me, God does. My allegiance is with Him and what He tells me to do. I am a part of the body of Christ, but the body does not own me.

  7. “If you really believed that we were in the last days of the last days…what would you change?”

    Nothing – I do what I am suppose to be doing.

  8. The covenants thing is funny and tells a lot about how sick individual Christians are. People will sign a covenant with their 24 hour fitness gym and balk at any commitment to a church body.

    I will agree to a generality with Alex – a sickness has invaded the Christian pewster.

  9. em says:

    1-war has, sadly, become an industry… no nation is innocent of profiteering James 1 … seems appropriate – even if it came after the crucifixion (and resurrection)

    2-the father is a strange fellow… as is their family industry… all of these type of shows probably have some educational value: the 500 lb. guys, the little people (my hat is off to them – mostly), the Alaska crab guys, etc… many will crash and burn in public, tho – they are us

    3- yeah

    4-we can see the direction things are going and then God steps in… it’s that final step that ought to concern us

    4a-horse*puckey is way cleaner than just about any other animal waste that i know of… why don’t people say cow*puckey or cat*c-rap now those are offensive IMHO 🙂 “just sayin” … now horse laugh? that’s very descriptive

    5-“care” may be too tame a word… He is righteous and just and it’s really His ball and His game, no matter what our deluded contrary conclusions are

    6-who is “we?” … who is qualified to re-define the Church? … i did see on the BBC news web-site that they are asking, “Is Great Britain really a Christian nation?” they must have thot they were once ? ? ?

    7-chuches seem to reflect the societal demographics inversely proportional to the prosperity of the society

    8-i think our patriotism came from our common cause of building a nation with a well defined bill of rights… then along came the malcontents and their lawyers – thinkin about the 4 chapter of James’ book again…. thinking….

    9-i think i’d probably change my whole passive behavior – i’m thinking along the lines of the ‘greeter’ that used stand at the bend of the highway going thru Laguna (sometimes we’d wave back and he’d grin ear to ear) – i’d find me a bend in the highway with a stop light and be there everyday with a sign, “be sure your sins will find you out – repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus the Christ!”

    10-pray for my daughter, she worked 14 hours yesterday – got home at 10 pm and went back to work this a.m – and she’s not the only one – taking care of folk who don’t celebrate responsibly

  10. em says:

    well, i hope nobody hits the reference to James’ book as it should have been a 4 not a 1 … sorry bout that

  11. em says:

    if you read my list and if you think my response to number 7 made sense… well, i’ll pray for you 😆

  12. Jim says:

    “Whatever we think of those wars we should fully support the men and women who fought and died in them as service to their country.”

    1) Why?
    2) How did a GI in Iraq serve THEIR country?

  13. Richard says:

    Please pray for this Connecticut pastor who was shot while planting Memorial Day flags.

    http://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-hartford-shootings-0725-20150524-story.html

  14. em says:

    praying as i type – Lord Jesus!

  15. Babylon's Dread says:

    Alex is a portent of things to come. We will all be scorned for our claim of attachment to Jesus sooner than later. Get used to it.

  16. David says:

    I have no problem with memberships in churches. However, when a church starts quoting bylaws at you in the middle of finding out your husband was a pedophile, it’s time to look elsewhere.

    Oh, they don’t want you to look elsewhere and started waving papers in your face to try and keep you around to “‘discipline” you? That just means run faster. I had a bit of respect for Matt Chandler before this, but this has been just painful to watch.

  17. em says:

    15, i fear Pastor Dread may be a prophet

  18. Steve says:

    It sounds like I agree with MLD on #7… I’m not sure that membership is particularly Biblical, just practical. Just like my kids soccer team know they’re coming because we sign on the dotted line to certain rights and responsibilities, I’m not sure why a church shouldn’t do the same. After all, my elders are supposed to lead me, and how do they know who to lead unless I sign up?

    On the other hand, I know what Michael is saying. The more stories you hear about heavy-handed bureaucratic bylaw leadership in the place of patient servant leadership, the closer I get to chucking the whole concept… After all, my kids’ soccer club wouldn’t discipline them if they got injured at a soccer game and decided to switch to golf.

  19. Babylon's Dread says:

    Since the public square now belongs to the gay agenda you can simply look at the racial issue and see a close parallel to what you can expect in this matter.

    Since the Bible clearly condemns racism it was easy to marginalize an interpretation that undergirded racism and reject groups that dissented. Plus there was enough support among Bible Christians to maintain faith in scripture while rejecting racism.

    This is different. The Bible as a source of authority will fall apart in the public eye with this turn. No credible interpretation of scripture can be called upon by the gay agenda to support them. Only a clear rejection of revealed text can stand. With this event those who are Christians with any credible relationship to the text must be damned by the public. We can expect to be regarded like Westboro Baptist Church and worse. We can expect the name Christian to equal a hated group.

    The harlot bride will manifest in the name of “love” and claim market share but it will not have received its authority from heaven. Rather it’s claims will have arisen from human experience. Alex illustrates this with his just claim against religion. He deconstructs us all because of his offense. Imagine that spirit writ large. He is actually not nearly as committed to our destruction as those who will employ his logic.

    I for one plan to embrace the hatred and go on. I will not give myself to the new “revelation” about marriage. I will speak and speak clearly. I think this Incessantly these days. The enemies of Christ have found their lever. They will roll an avalanche upon us.

  20. Michael says:

    I am not nearly so pessemistic.

    What if….the threat of the “gay agenda” is God’s holy discipline on His own for their sins?
    If so, then by taking responsibility and repenting for our own stuff we would see restoration.

    All this stuff troubles me not…God has always worked through a remnant.
    My only concern is the impact on our children.
    I don’t have many years left, so I must make them count educating my own in the the love of Christ and neighbor.

  21. Xenia says:

    Amen Dread!

  22. Erunner says:

    There’s a sense of paranoia at work in the church. I see it when people latch onto conspiracy information and repeat it as if it’s a known fact. They link to some who state Oklahoma City and 9-11 were acts of our nation. It goes on and on.

    This spreads fear and untruths. Christ isn’t glorified and often not mentioned. I’m finding it hard to believe some of the things believers are falling for.

    This is one of the things I would change. But since I need so much work I’ll focus in trying to live a godly life and present a positive witness to those I interact with.

  23. Xenia says:

    Regarding the Duggar family, I suspect that siblings messing around with younger siblings is more common that people think. When I was a kid I had a friend who used to tell me of the orgies she and her brothers and sisters had while mom and pop were away.

    At least this Duggar kid had enough of a conscience to confess his actions to his father, who took some steps. I am not sure how many parents would be willing to call the cops and have all their kids taken away by social services if they thought they could handle it themselves. I suspect they believed they were making the best, least traumatic decision for the entire family. They probably weighed calling the cops and having all the kids whisked away to foster care vs getting private counseling for the abuser. I think I would have made the same choice.

    So why on earth would they put their family on TV in a stupid, stupid reality show? I think subjecting one’s family to this circus of a lifestyle is dreadful. Didn’t they know that one day this would all come out? But fame is hard to pass up, I guess. I wonder how they are going to live their lives outside the spotlight to which they have become accustomed. Can you imagine what that lifestyle has done to the personalities of those kids? Always having an audience?

    I am in favor of big families, by the way, but the fact is, if you have a huge number of children, you can’t keep close watch on everything. You also find yourself relying on older children to care for their younger siblings, such as young teenage boys changing toddler sister’s diapers, etc. and doing a lot of babysitting.

    I am glad that dumb show is off the air. I only saw about 15 minutes of it and was sad to see a family allowing themselves to be a spectacle.

  24. Erunner says:

    Xenia, I have been close to those who were molested by siblings in their youth. The emotional impact was huge and followed them into adulthood. I would be curious how the victims of the Duggar boy are faring now and if any became abusers themselves. Hopefully for all of their sake I hope they all received the help that they needed and have adjusted as well as can be hoped for.

    I don’t get these reality shows but they are very popular. Many are simply using this as fodder to rant against Christians while at the same time having no issue defending Michael Jackson.

  25. Xenia says:

    Erunner, yep. When my friend told me her story, I was a complete innocent of 12 who didn’t really understand what she was telling me. It wasn’t until years later that I realized what had been going on, that her older brothers were having sex with their younger sisters on a regular basis. I moved to a different town and lost track of the friend but heard that she had taken up a life of crime and died at an early age. I would say the emotional impact on that girl was huge.

  26. Alex says:

    Dread said, “Alex is a portent of things to come. We will all be scorned for our claim of attachment to Jesus sooner than later. Get used to it.”

    Em said, “15, i fear Pastor Dread may be a prophet”

    I’ve been predicting this for awhile now (along with other things that will come true)…and I’m not a prophet, just a realist who sees Trends.

    I agree with Michael’s comment above…this is “God” bringing some correction the so-called “church”…let the Judgment roll…(and it will be in other areas, too, like more financial scrutiny and lost tax-free status, more abuse lawsuits etc)

    “God” is at work…

  27. Babylon's Dread says:

    Erunner,

    Just to clarify, I am not sure if you think my post hints and conspiratorial stuff. I buy into NONE of the conspiracy theories. I buy into the truth that ideas have consequences and that in political battles in present day America it is a zero sum game. Winner take all.

    I hope I am dead wrong about my concerns. I have not even begun to voice them, but just figure this. The gay agenda is not looking for a place for themselves they are looking to vanquish all opposition. Every voice that simply uses Biblical language to express the truth about homosexuality will be marked and called a hater. Homophobe is the n-word for people like me except it is sanctioned.

    Put me down. I hate what this issue is doing and will do to family, government, education, politics, culture and social order. I ache for people caught in the web of lies that builds this stronghold and I believe it will take hundreds of years to dismantle the wreckage. But I could be wrong, I hope I am.

  28. Alex says:

    You have a fragmented “church” and gluttonous, lying, prideful unconcerned abusive leadership (in many Sects) and a church-going population that doesn’t really care about the abuse and corruption as long as it doesn’t affect them personally etc…

    It is ironic that conservative evangelicals can see “God” in natural disaster that has no rhyme or reason…but can’t see “God” in very major Trends to hem in and clamp down on the so-called “church”

    Pretty similar dynamic with Chuck Smith calling down God’s judgment on me and then I state publicly that he called down his own judgment…then he comes down with cancer and dies a year to the day after he does so….and “it’s coincidence! No connection!” when it’s your Guru…typical evangelicals. If Jesus came back in the flesh you’d miss it if it wasn’t the way you’ve said it’s going to happen.

  29. Michael says:

    “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.”
    (Romans 1:26–27 ESV)

    What is the due penalty and if it is as severe as we assume, then what kind of legs will the gay agenda actually have?

  30. Alex says:

    “What is the due penalty and if it is as severe as we assume, then what kind of legs will the gay agenda actually have?”

    The same as for your sins or my sins or Dread’s sins or anyone’s.

    Dread is a glutton (sorry buddy) and it isn’t a big deal…there’s grace for all of us. You don’t see me leading a charge that ‘Merica is being judged with the next hurricane because of fat preachers like Dreadly….

  31. Erunner says:

    Dread, you were in no way on my mind with my post. Far from it.

  32. Babylon's Dread says:

    Michael,

    Slavery lasted hundreds of years, and goes on in new forms, the gay agenda can last because they have control of the systems, they control media, education, government, and a great many other realms. Evil has legs… it definitely bears fruit.

    And Alex,

    Don’t get me wrong… I have no argument against those who say the judgment has begun at the house of God.. That is consistent.

  33. Babylon's Dread says:

    Thanks Erunner,

    It gave me a chance to further my point …

  34. Babylon's Dread says:

    Alex,

    True enough… and you left off a winebibber.

    I am definitely under a judgment of its own kind.

  35. Alex says:

    The Gay Agenda will win b/c the Consensus has changed and they are a motivated Group and have a winning argument (in general).

    I don’t like the cake bakers being forced to bake a cake…if that’s the standard, then apply it to Islamic bakeries as well.

    However, I don’t like hyper End Times Anti-Gay sects who are abusive semi-cults having such cozy access to Local government law enforcement agencies…it corrupts and tilts the scales of justice.

    I also think that conservative evangelicals would freak out if a Sheriff showed up in uniform to an Islamic Prayer Event and represented the City in that capacity endorsing a local Imam who invited a very popular fundamentalist Imam to be the keynote speaker. You’d freak out and cry “Separation of Church and State!” and rightfully so…

  36. Erunner says:

    Xenia, that is exactly what I am speaking of. God only knows the consequences when a child is abused by a family member, no matter the age. I’ve seen it up close. I’m sorry things ended so tragically for that poor girl.

  37. Alex says:

    Dreadly, thank you for not taking it personally. I like you and respect you and enjoy our discussions.

    I think we can agree that it is part of “God’s judgment” if there is in fact such a thing.

  38. Babylon's Dread says:

    As far as judgment is concerned.

    A huge part of the gay discussion that NEITHER side is seriously including is the reality that sexual confusion (my reference for the range of sexual desires that control people) is a common outcome of sexual abuse. Lots of religious people have sexualized people against their will. Lots of families have messed up stuff happening under their noses. Lots of abuse exists and it always has an outcome. Much of the gay agenda is the reaping of the whirlwind from sowing to the wind of sexual abuse.

    We all have a mess on our hands. It won’t get better by removing taboos.

  39. Erunner says:

    Alex, at times I think you lose sight of the scores of believers who attend any number of churches and are trying to live quiet and decent lives while fighting so many types of personal battles.

    There are and have been folks who have been a part of this blog who have suffered untold abuse, etc. It can be an effort for some to simply wake up and make it through another day.

    This has been a place for some to come to and heal up a bit and gain strength. I’m in no position to make or instigate wholesale changes in any church but I along with others do what we can to be of help to others not so fortunate.

    We want them to know God loves them and hasn’t deserted them. The church as a whole has problems and always will. I wish it wasn’t so. But there are scores who are doing things right and making a difference.

    If we are scorned for our beliefs so be it. Others are dying for theirs. And without a doubt I know in the midst of this all God is good.

  40. Alex says:

    Dread, I hear you and there is truth to a lot of that.

    I think the conservative end of the church tent has created a hill to die on with Gay Marriage…and it has come back to bite them. Big chunks of the church have made it a special Taboo for a long time and embittered a motivated Group.

    Sowing and Reaping principle in action. Had the “church” been more responsible in extending grace to other sinners like they do to themselves (Gluttons, liars, prideful, fornicators, child abusers, divorced pastors remarrying etc etc etc). then the Gay Agenda wouldn’t have such a motivated support in general society.

  41. Alex says:

    E, I don’t disagree that there are a lot of decent folks in Christianity (in general)…but it doesn’t remove the reality of the abuses and corruption and the Anti-Gay agenda that has co-opted many churches for many years.

    There are a lot of good atheists, good agnostics, good gay folks as well…yet much of the conservative end of the Christian tent has no problem railing against those folks and their particular agendas and positions and actions etc.

  42. Alex says:

    Dread, any others: Do you think it OK if a Sheriff in government uniform in official capacity attended and endorsed an Islamic Prayer Event that hosted and invited City Government and County Government officials….endorsing a local Imam as well as a renowned fundamentalist Imam as the keynote speaker?

  43. Xenia says:

    I would mind, because Islam is inherently wicked since it teaches a false way to salvation and is the ruination of millions. So no, I would never do anything to promote Islam although I would treat individual Muslims with respect.

    Islam and Christianity are not peers. One is false and the other is true.

  44. em says:

    #42 – yeah… if he was “in official capacity,” he’d be well “positioned” to keep an eye on things

  45. Alex says:

    Em, LOL

  46. Alex says:

    I half agree with you X…Islam is bad news. Unfortunately, fundamentalist radical End Times sects like Calvary Chapel are in the same universe and we should be concerned that they have an Agenda to cozy up to Sheriff’s and Police Departments etc by recruiting their leaders and personnel to their sect. It muddies the waters a lot.

  47. Still crickets from Alex – how does POTUS go to these prayer breakfasts – he goes to all kinds, even Muslim events in his official capacity as POTUS.

    I would only be upset with the Sheriff in his official capacity if he picked up the check at public expense.

  48. Alex says:

    MLD, I am for Separation of Church and State. I’m not a fan of the POTUS attending and endorsing Islamic events or any others in an official capacity.

  49. And I have no problem with city / government officials attending any and all of the various prayer breakfasts / events.

    Jews are just as wrong / false as Islam, so let’s not allow them at a Jewish event either. Paranoia must be contagious.

  50. Alex says:

    I remember a lot of conservative evangelicals freaking out about Romney being Mormon/LDS…and I’m sure would freak the you-know-what out if Romney attended Mormon/LDS functions in an official capacity.

    Conservative evangelicals are all “no separation of church and state!” unless it is an opposing or competing religion.

  51. Alex says:

    MLD, they can attend in a private capacity, the line gets crossed when it becomes an official capacity, in uniform, etc. It mixes Church and State and gives the impression of an endorsement of the event and the speakers and leaders…which it is….and which conservatives claim in reverse when a liberal leader speaks at a particular event in an official capacity.

  52. Separation of church and state is a myth. The Bill of Rights, where the 1st amendment is contained, is all about keeping the state out of the private sector – there is nothing in the Bill of Rights limiting authority or access tot he government. You may want to read it.

    Now, another thing you may not know – when the constitution was adopted 12 of the 13 colonies / states had official state churches. The constitution had no authority over that … because of what I said in the first paragraph.

  53. Alex says:

    MLD, I’ll leave that to the civil rights attorneys…I think you’re wrong and could argue with you for months on end about that issue…the Constitution is clearer about Separation of Church and State than the bible is about every doctrine the 9,000 to 30,000 ‘christian’ churches disagree on.

    …but let’s spare the blog community that debate (Separation of Church and State).

  54. “and gives the impression of an endorsement of the event ”

    How can this be. If you were the mayor of your town, don’t you represent all people in your town? As mayor, don’t you have a civic responsibility to interact with your constituents and accept invitations when invited to their events?

    You should be giving the impression of endorsement – to the fact that they are free to exist and invite people to their functions.

  55. Alex says:

    Not religious events, especially when it is a civil rights issue..which Gay Marriage has become…whether you like it or not…whether you agree with it or not.

  56. Alex says:

    I don’t want my Sheriff in uniform speaking at and endorsing an Islamic event where a known fundamentalist Cleric or Imam is speaking and spreading his garbage…and that sword cuts both ways.

  57. There is no such thing as separation of church and state – but I will give you and your civil rights attorneys a challenge. The first time Hillary Clinton shows up at a black church on a campaign swing, I want you to have her arrested. Then I will believe we have separation of church and state in the constitution.

    If the constitution was clear like you say, why do we have a federal court system trying to rule and overrule each other?

  58. Alex says:

    They aren’t my attorneys, but I think they have a case and it will be a trend for years to come.

    You aren’t comparing apples to apples. Campaign stops are a different animal. You’re mixing your fruits as usual…

  59. Alex says:

    “If the constitution was clear like you say, why do we have a federal court system trying to rule and overrule each other?”

    Same reason we have 9,000 to 30,000 “christian” flavors and most disagree on a whole bunch of issues.

    At least with the Constitution, you only have a few camps.

  60. Alex says:

    Hey, we’ll see how it shakes out. I can tell you there is one lawsuit and more are coming. We’ll see what happens.

    I just know that if you make it OK for a Calvary Chapel and FRC type sect to have an Agenda of getting cozy with local law enforcement government agencies…then you can’t really cry “separation of church and state!” when Muslims do it or other religious Groups do the same (in the military and in local governments etc).

  61. I still do not understand how you equate attending a prayer breakfast with endorsing a particular religion.

    And I do think that Muslim groups and Jewish groups have a right to lobby local governments just like anyone else.

  62. Why isn’t the Sheriff’s visit to the prayer breakfast just considered a campaign event also? – elected officials are always running for office.

  63. Alex says:

    Why did the Sheriff in Visalia lie and say he had no idea who Tony Perkins was and that he was speaking at the event if it’s no big deal like you say?

  64. Alex says:

    This guy lies as good as Chuck Smith LOL:

    “s for claims that Boudreaux’ involvement in the prayer breakfast might be construed as support for Perkins and his group, the sheriff said, “I didn’t know who the speaker was, to be honest with you. When I showed up, I saw the protesters.

    “I was invited there to be in support for our community as a whole,” he said, adding that he get any detailed information about Perkins and his reported agenda until after and his command staff left due to work commitments.

    Had they stayed, Boudreaux said, “If any derogatory remarks had been made [by Perkins], yes, I definitely would have left.””

    Bourdeaux is close to Bob Grenier, it’s Bob Grenier’s event. You’re telling me the head honcho of law enforcement in that area had no idea who Tony Perkins is and that he was the headliner of the event? LOL

  65. Alex says:

    Liar liar, pants on fire. Wow these guys can lie their arses off. Chuck Smith was just as bold a liar.

    “Lying is an ABOMINATION to the Lord!” “God HATES lying” etc.

    No biggie, they are “lying for Jesus!”

  66. I don’t even know who Tony Perkins is – wasn’t he the actor in Psycho?

    Why would that matter – what if it was the Pope in town speaking – why can’t he go as a representative of his city?

    Look, you are smarter than this – you even claimed to be a consultant on the lawsuit – and this is the best ya got – no one knows who Tony Perkins is.

  67. Alex says:

    It’s a cutting-edge issue and a good debate needs to be had. So glad it involves my doosh-bag step-dad, he’s got an uncanny ability to bring the heat down on those connected to him like no other.

    http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/story/news/local/2015/05/22/tulare-county-sheriffs-conduct-questioned/27761857/

  68. Alex says:

    MLD, the Sheriff is on the Board at Visalia First Assembly and is BFF’s with Grenier who invited Perkins to headline the event. The Sheriff knows exactly who Tony Perkins and FRC is…and as Sheriff…would have to know that a guy with Perkins’ major political connections and such a polarizing figure on current contentious issues was coming to town…both knowledge through is church relationships with Grenier and his own Visalia First Assembly position (VFA is big in that event as well) as well as through his law enforcement duties of having to provide security for the event…especially with all the threats lately.

  69. Alex says:

    That the Sheriff felt he had to lie to cover himself is telling that he thinks he is vulnerable in a lawsuit and may have crossed a line…or why wouldn’t he be honest?

    …same reason Chuck Smith lied his ass off…

  70. You need to find a different attorney to consult for – look at this from your article;
    “But taking part in a clearly religious-based event — as the Sheriff and in uniform — Boudreaux and his command staff violated a portion of the First Amendment of the Constitution, prohibiting government from making any “law respecting an establishment of religion,” Melo said.”

    What law did they establish? That is her accusation, that by attending the event they made new law. Help me out Mr. Consultant – what was the law they established? And the article says they were gone after he led the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer for fallen cops, well before the speech,

  71. Alex says:

    Hey, I’m not a legal scholar…I can just prove the cozy relationships and Agenda that Calvary Chapels have in targeting government law enforcement agencies and recruiting officials and LEO’s into their Sect.

    I’ll leave the legal argument to the civil rights attorneys….

    Telling that the Sheriff wouldn’t tell the truth…speaks volumes.

  72. Alex says:

    And, it doesn’t matter what you and I think…it’s what the judges and courts think…and if it is a Federal Court in California…you can bet your take is going to lose LOL

  73. Well, we will see how it goes. According to the article, it doesn’t seem that the county counsel accepted the complaints as there were no clients listed. That to me is always a sign of a frivolous complaint.

    You will also note that no lawsuit has been formulated nor filed.
    The guy will still be sheriff this time next year.

  74. Alex says:

    Lawsuits are coming, the complaint was the first shot across the bow.

    I’ll make you a bet that the guy won’t be Sheriff this time next year. If he is, I have to stay off the blog for a whole month, if he has stepped down before then…you have to stay off the blog 🙂

  75. Alex says:

    Hey, it’s not like he won’t find a job…Grenier is always hiring connected local government LEO’s or former City officials…some officially paid, some paid in round about ways that are in testimony in evidence in the lawsuit.

  76. Well I can’t speak much for Visalia. I always remember in the 70s and 80s when I was opening businesses in the surrounding areas it was known for inbred families – so perhaps now we are seeing the results.

    Bed time

  77. Alex says:

    LOL

    night night

  78. em says:

    #29- to elaborate:
    “…..For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they obecame futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
    22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
    23 and qexchanged the glory of rthe immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
    24 Therefore sGod gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to tthe dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
    25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
    26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions……”

  79. Alex says:

    Em, c’mon don’t give out the Chuck voodoo it’s not real.

    The Gays are no more or less sinners than you or the gluttons, or divorcee fornicators like Don Stewart who is remarried no problem (and you aren’t protesting that), or the 50% of pastors (or something like that) that watch p0rn, or the child abusers or the liars or the greedy for gain (lots of Top 2% income “pastors” and lots of top .5% celebrity pastors like Raul Ries, Greg Laurie, Franklin Graham, Billy Graham etc).

    It just isn’t honest. You guys make too big a deal about the gays while gracing over so much else. It just isn’t credible.

  80. Alex says:

    If “God” was in the nuking biz he’d have nuked most of the church by now already.

    If “God” has given any Group over to their dishonorable passions…then he gave Laurie, Coy, Ries, Graham etc over to their pride and greed and lying long ago and even Chuck Smith who lied his arse off.

  81. Alex says:

    Your leaders are corrupt, rich, gluttonous liars….yet you nitpick the “outsiders” and make bogeymen of the Gays. It’s not right or righteous.

    1 Corinthians 5:12

  82. Alex says:

    …and my words have Power and they will come true.

    “God” is judging and will judge.

  83. Alex says:

    “This made the LORD burn with anger against Israel, so he handed them over to raiders who stole their possessions. He turned them over to their enemies all around, and they were no longer able to resist them.”

  84. Alex says:

    Thus sayeth the Lord! 🙂

    Can I get an amen?

  85. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Although people (myself included) break the sin rules / the will of God for our life, that still does not make it acceptable … to God or the Church.

    So, no amen.

  86. Alex says:

    Who would “God” judge stricter? Worse? The sinners sinning or the so-called religious leaders sinning but not being honest about their sin while pointing the fingers at the “evil gays!” and blaming all of ‘Merica’s problems on those poor folks?

    …I know the answer, pick me pick me! 🙂

  87. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    God has already judged us on the cross – all of us for all of it. You must have missed that page in the Bible. Where do you see that God is going to judge America?

    See, I don’t think gays are evil, but I don’t think they should be allowed to marry each other. I don’t think fathers are evil and I don’t think daughters are evil – but I also don’t think they should be allowed to marry either.

  88. Alex says:

    You tell me, it’s the general “church” in the US that keeps saying that stuff…at least a big chunk of it.

    MLD are you cool with Gay Marriage? You’re in the conservative Lutheran sect aren’t you? I know the other Lutheran sect is cool with it.

  89. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Alex, no I am not in favor of gay marriage. But it has nothing to do with my religious beliefs, although they do support it.

    I am not in favor of adult incestuous marriages either – both are a natural law thing.

    Alex – where do you stand on adult incestuous marriages – yay or nay?

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