Things I Think
1. Sometimes things happen in life and you get stuck ruminating and brooding over the event to the point where you drive yourself and others crazy.
I’m there.
The Gospel For Asia debacle hath made me vexed in such a manner.
If the allegations against K.P. Yohannan and the charity are true, then the people of God have been lied to, stolen from, used, and deceived.
All these evils are continuing as the charity is still advertising heavily and still recruiting new staff to replace the staff that have (allegedly) been the victims of spiritual abuse and departed.
Now, I think that anybody that can help stop these things from happening to the people of God should do so.
I do not believe that this is complex or nuanced in any way…if someone is assailing your family, you step in and stop the assailant.
If you refuse to help stop the assailing you don’t care much about your family and take the side of the assailant.
I hope I haven’t lost anyone yet because this is somehow complicated…
Yet, when I call out those who are watching the continued assault on the people of God while having the potential ability to stop it, I’m the one who is labeled the attacker.
This makes perfect sense to some of you…and you wonder why people are leaving the church in droves.
2. When you drag your personal relationship drama onto Facebook you’re not seeking reconciliation, you’re calling for a vote in a rigged election.
3. Miss Kitty and I are having a communication problem. She needs to do certain things and avoid other things if she is to recover. She finds both the doing and not doing to be odious and horribly restrictive to her freedom. She’s beginning to think that I am cold and uncaring because I am trying to make her well. Make your own application…
4. I got some emails and a moronic video asking me to boycott Starbucks. First of all, I live in Oregon and we drink Dutch Bros. when we want to burn five bucks on drive through coffee. Second of all, in the myriad crises I’m juggling, the color of a coffee cup has left me strangely unmoved. Third, my faith is neither strengthened or depleted by the actions of secular businesses.
5. The biblical injunction to be salt and light is an injunction to be radically different than what we are surrounded by. It is a call to be a preservative and a beacon and it’s a call that can only be answered by being people of direct contrast to the culture. The problem is that it is uncomfortable to be that different, so we adopt enough of the culture to avoid scorn. Thus, both the church and the culture rot beneath a flickering light…
6. To truly enjoy a comic book based movie like “Batman” or “The Avengers” you have to consciously suspend unbelief. I think you have to do the same thing to attend one of those churches where feathers appear “spontaneously” and preachers start dripping oil…
7. Someone needs to explain to me how I’m not supposed to care about ethics and virtue in church leadership, but I’m supposed to care deeply about what pagans do in their bedrooms…
8. In the new heavens and the new earth there will be no need for “Go Fund Me” pages for sick loved ones or funeral expenses. I wish I could write checks to all of them in need…
9. If I went to one of those signs and wonders meetings needing healing or provision and only came home with a feather, I’d be ticked…
10. The older I get the more I understand that I know a lot more about the Bible than I do about Jesus…
The older I get the more I wonder if I once taught some of the Scriptures incorrectly.
Bob,
You and me both…
Thanks for the encouragement to get out and stop the deceit. Our local Christian Station continues to play KP’s radio show and I now feel responsible to put an end to that (with kind but firm words).
David,
Each one of us can contribute to stopping this deceit.
What you’re doing is commendable…I wonder why the men who know the full extent of the problems remain silent.
1. I think that it could be hard for some who have supported this ministry to accept the truth. That would mean they were somehow culpable in funding this monstrousity… I mean ministry. If they “just give it to the Lord to work it out”, as they have done with their donation, then its “not my problem… it’s Gods problem”… mentality. Lets face it, some may sign a check to GFA to feel better about themselves and their standing before God.
People WANT to believe the best of others, and while its commendable trait to possess, in the face of the evidence mounted…its time to cut your losses folks.
“When you drag your personal relationship drama onto Facebook you’re not seeking reconciliation, you’re calling for a vote in a rigged election.”
My goodness… I wish I could post this on FB without someone acting like an apostle accused of going to betray Jesus… “Is it I?”
It seems like the only way you can voice disapproval on FB is to say nothing. So we are all supposed to act like we approve of whatever self-caused drama someone is going through and post in their feed.
Papias,
This comment has stuck in my craw for almost two weeks.
“Here is the problem: This sad, ugly, sinful drama is losing it’s momentum and we have to try and keep it alive to ‘right all of the horrible injustices’ done.”
The mockery of of people who are following the Beatitudes and “hungering and thirsting for righteousness” is so incomprehensible to me as to make me crazy.
It demeans what has happened to people at the hands of this group and spits on those who really do want to see some sort of justice and righteousness take hold.
It reveals the same heart we’ve all had to fight for years and has severely affected how I look at even those who claim to be “friends”.
Messed me up big time…
I think the Starbucks thing is so silly. Why do Christians think that they can impose on others how or even if a company should observe a holiday.
I don’t know about anyone else, but nothing says “Jesus was born of a virgin to save the world” like a few snowflakes on a coffee cup.
MLD,
Starbucks coffee always tastes like they burned the beans to me.
Maybe it’s made in hell… 🙂
It doesn’t even need to be about Starbucks – the fact that we are offended that someone would say Happy Holiday to us at Macy’s instead of Merry Christmas.
MLD,
I completely agree.
However, we live in a time where offense is as vital as caffeine to many.
During the holidays I would much rather the cashier say, “sir, you just saved $100 in discounts, thank you.”
I would like to modify what I want a cashier to say. I don’t care if they call me sir or say thank you. 😉
I have my own Starbucks 16oz plastic cup. I go into the local Fred Meyer Starbucks kiosk and ask for the senior discount. They fill it up for a $1.09 and give me all the free refills I want 😉
Starbucks does burn its beans so as to give them a “bite”. Me hates it.
This faux outrage over coffee cups is the “offense du jour” Next week it will be something else.
Don’t expect the heathen to acknowledge or act Christian like…
i don’t feel like thinking this morning, but i like what everyone here is thinking 🙂
This is how it goes these days:
I’m offended that you’re offended that I’m offended at your being offended.
The Christian brouhaha over Starbucks coffee cups is indistinguishable from ignorant superstition.
The Christian fascination with feathers is indistinguishable from gullible superstition.
if you got a feather & are ticked, check your wallet–you likely got plucked.
Starbucks cups controversial? Whose superior insight concocted this BS (bean squeezin’s))
both these issues erode the credibility of Christians and Christianity. When will we get a clue?
actually had a couple Starbucks coffees this weekend…no demonic activity detected. Kind, helpful baristas and cute, festive cups.
spawnofsatanfil
The whole Starbucks thing is sickening and a complete joke and only self-described cultural war fools want to be distracted by such crap. I am sure Franklin graham of James Dobson are all over this one, and by over I don’t mean above it. The idiots who peddle these culture war issues are fools and Jesus jerks.
Oh and again about the Starbucks deal, just read the story in cnn and learned the name of the moron who started this protest. I wonder how long it will take the christianpost to peddle his baloney.
The Starbucks thing may just be a viral marketing scheme. I haven’t seen too many people upset about the cups. I’ve seen a ton of people upset at the people who are apparently upset about the cups.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/09/man-who-set-the-internet-on-fire-with-viral-anti-starbucks-christmas-cup-clip-delivers-fiery-explanation-and-reveals-how-hed-redesign-the-red-cups/
Yeah, that’s stupid.
Personally I find the biggest War on Christmas to be those ‘Christian’ churches that close on Christmas day.
“If you are idle, be not solitary; if you are solitary be not idle.” — Samuel Johnson
I like that one because it reminds me of Luther’s advice on dealing with spiritual depression. Don’t be alone. Be around others who make you laugh.
I’m sure some of the time ruminating and brooding will turn out to be time well spent. But if it is getting into crazy land, solitude is probably bad. It is for me.
I think Just-Joshin’ FewerSteins is simply attempting to make a name for himself.
The more I think about it, all churches should display a nativity scene outside their church along overtly Christian signage. If this were done, we wouldn’t need to broker this effort out to the cities and the malls.
Christian homeowners should have similar displays on their from lawns – something that let’s your neighbors know that Jesus and the season are important to you … and should also be for them.
MLD,
That’s too simple a solution and doesn’t allow room for social rage. 🙂
manger scenes… hmmm… bet we could get everyone on board if putting them up gave us tax exempt status… hmmm – and vandalizing them would be a hate crime, eh?
actually i second MLD’s suggestion – signage = “For unto you, if you will accept Him, was born this day in the City of David a Savior – Christ Jesus, THE Lord”
BTW – i thought the city of David was Jerusalem, never noticed the discrepancy before…
Personally I find the biggest War on Christmas to be those ‘Christian’ churches that close on Christmas day.
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This is fascinating to me because most churches are closed on Christmas unless Christmas happens to fall on Sunday and many times they even close then since they had their Christmas Eve service instead. But I personally don’t think the 25th is any more Holy than any other day but it is a bit of an anomaly.
Andrew, actually I am sure that most churches are open on Christmas. I am sure it is only the evangelical churches that close.
RCC, EO, Anglican (of all sorts) Lutheran, Presbyterian types etc will be open.
But those who close are actually trying to be nice and give Jesus the day off. 😉
” When you drag your personal relationship drama onto Facebook you’re not seeking reconciliation, you’re calling for a vote in a rigged election.”
Stealin’ and Dealin’ Dread
Of course they are open. When else are those churches going to see a bunch of their official membership? Most of the CEOs belong to those denominations…
In terms of percentages surveys show you are going to find far more people who go to services regularly in those churches mocked by MLD above, and you will find far more Christmas-Easter-only people in the denominations cited. In fact the Church of England just announced they were only going to open the doors in many churches on those two days.
I am pretty sure the Lord is not upset with all those faithful weekly Christians who show up on Christmas Eve each year along with most of the 52 Sundays on the calendar…no matter what MLD thinks about his brothers in Christ, or praises the lost and their liturgical guilt. (I speak of the lost solely based on MLD’s eternal security argument about drifting due to other priorities, missing communion all those weeks and so forth…I don’t assume on anyone’s salvation otherwise)
Gallup did a poll a few years back on church attendance by denomination. The sample average in their sample was 44% attend weekly or almost weekly, and 55% once a month/seldom/never
By denomination, the Church of Christ, Pentecostals, Baptists (both Southern and other), non demoninational and other Christian are all over 50% on the weekly column, some well well over 50%…all above the average line
The Catholics are right on the average line 45/54
Meanwhile the Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, and the sainted Lutherans are all below the average line.
Thus, my prior observation…if they didn’t open for Christmas, good chance you might miss them (and their check)
And yet Steve as usually happens misses the point entirely. Doesn’t that get old?
In the context of the War on Christmas (the Starbucks cups etc), those who bellyache the loudest that the Macy’s girl won’t say Merry Christmas – yet close the church doors on such a day.
But since you want to compare who goes to church the most, I bet the Pharisee was in the church more often than the widow who gave here last 2 mites.
It is very odd for Christians to rant about the world rejecting Christmas and then the churches are EMPTY on Christmas Day. But that is my reality …
Steve looks down on those who come to church only on Christmas and Easter. I personally am thrilled to see those folks even if it’s only on those 2 days. They are part of the faithful … otherwise they would not show up even on those days.
Michael,
A while back you mentioned a book that fairly discussed the various views of the end times, do you remember what book that was?
Thanks.
David,
Biblical Eschatology by Jonathan Menn.
Classic.
Yeah, thanks, I just found the post about it. I’ll be recommending it to my wife’s uncle.
The red cups are not a big issue with solid Christians.My Facebook feed today had 4 articles saying the sky is falling.The responses by the Christians were pretty blunt telling the news sources to bop off.
I attended a few meetings back in the 90’s where supposedly feathers and gold dust was appearing during the meetings.
One fellow showed me some of the gold on a chair.
Upon close examination I realized that someone had some gold leaf and was scattering it.
In my faux finishing work over the years I have had to use gold leaf.
The stuff crumbles into thousands of small pieces that float in any breeze.
Someone could blow on the stuff in the palm of their hand and it will gently drift off and scatter about the room.
Never bought into that feathers-gold dust deception!
Besides angels don’t have feathers!
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2015/04/feathers-angels-facts-and-fiction.html
The cherubs on the ark didn’t have wings?
I just looked up angels and wings. There or more than just a few scriptures describing angels with wings all the way to Revelation. Here’s a question. Do angels have souls and if not why on earth would they spend eternity in hello for rebelling against God.
“hell”
The people in America, that we talk to, are wondering why the ECFA doesn’t disclose the exact reasons they terminated their relationship with Gospel for Asia. Something doesn’t seem right with that. I think this will come back to haunt them in the long run. They really should take a stand and be open themselves. What do they have to hide? Are they afraid that KP Yohannan will come after them legally?
It is really sad that the Church refuses to clean up it’s own act before pointing figures at unbelievers. We do have more control over what happens inside our four walls than outside of them, yet we still remain in denial. Something ain’t right with this picture. Church isn’t a safe place anymore.
If you came home with enough feathers, you’d need some ticking…tee hee!
Has there been another round of angel’s feathers? Haven’t seen any in a while.
Cherubs are not angelic messengers are not angelic messengers.
Number 7! The hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
Could we just let the Starbucks thing drop? Apparently, it all got started with this article http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/05/war-on-christmas-starbucks-new-red-cups-are-emblematic-of-the-christian-culture-cleansing-of-the-west/
It’s clearly a tongue in cheek article, but people who lack the ability to pick up on that sort of nuance over the internet thought the writer was serious and started tweeting about how christians are nuts and think the Starbucks cups are offensive. But nobody ever legitimately was offended to begin with. Can we please just let this go?
for the last week or so I have been having trouble getting to the latest comments. Instead of going directly to the comment, it goes to add a comment and does not have the last comment. Is it my computer or on your end?
I haven’t heard of anyone else with the issue …yet.
Oh. Yes.
Breitbart.
j2theperson,
No, the article isn’t satire.
Breitbarters are low-information voters.
They meant it.
Sad but true.
Yet is over.
I’ve had the same problem intermittently over the last couple days. In fact, I can see Michael’s 55 right now, but can’t see bob’s at 56.
Now that my comment posted, I can see Bob at 56. It has been at times that I can’t see the most recent comment or two on a particular thread, but once another comment or more are posted, I can then see them all. Weird.
Um, no bob. Whatever you think of Breitbart.com, the article in question featured the line, “And behold, Starbucks did conceive and bear a red cup, and called his name blasphemy:” Those are not the words of a person who is speaking dead seriously.
Strange…I’ll check it out.
Steve looks down on those who come to church only on Christmas and Easter. I personally am thrilled to see those folks even if it’s only on those 2 days. They are part of the faithful … otherwise they would not show up even on those days.
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I agree. What bothers me most was when I went to my old CC church only to find they were doing their Daniel fast right through the middle of Easter and they didn’t even bother to stop the fast to celebrate but instead celebrated with their new building opening a couple of weeks later. Gosh what is more worthy of celebration, a building or the resurrection?
I was minding my own business when MLD took a shot across my evangelical bow as is his MO.
I put some objective facts on the table to counter the idea that somehow there is less of a commitment shown by Christians at churches that have a Christmas Eve service and not anything in addition on Christmas Day. I don’t look down my nose at brothers in Christ like MLD does constantly, though I do have serious concerns (and make no apology) over the Christmas Easter only attender which is why I always have a very heavy evangelistic message on those services in case a few are in our congregation as well….Interestingly our Easter attendance is not usually noticeably larger than any other Sunday, usually with any new faces being there as relatives of existing members and not someone we see once or twice a year.
I’ve never not had a special Easter message, nor do most any Calvary anywhere as surely anyone with experience with them would attest (Andrew’s annonymous anecdotal aside)
And at the risk of more doctrinal confusion, for someone whose denomination says you can drift away from salvation by just showing more and more disinterest, I would wonder if MLD’s pastor and all the elders do not make a very special effort to connect with every Christmas only Lutheran (since the stats show there are so many of them) and try to plead with such a one that there is serious risk to their eternal soul by such a lack of commitment – funny though how he talks the eternal security talk when it fits the Lutheran need. They are part of the faithful or they would not show up at all? Got it. And when they don’t show up NEXT year, and nobody at your church has thought about them all year, THEN are they now lost? That’s the doctrine, right? Just drift away from Christ until eventually even Christmas doesn’t keep you around….
I was going to reply to Andrew by saying let’s take Steve out of the equation and just discuss the concept of locking up the church on Christmas – but…
First, I didn’t take a shot across your bow – you ran out of your way to intercept it and make it your own. As any reasonable person could discern, my comment was in context of those who complain about the war on christmas many times are those who close their church on that very day.
As I am allowed my point of view, I just happen to see that as a much bigger offense than the minimum wage worker at Macy’s having the religious right crawling up their butt for not saying Merry Christmas.
But in the end, your church and Macy’s are both closed on Christmas.
I do wonder though about your comment about the Christmas / Easter folks that you think so little of their faith that you purposely send them a strong evangelistic message. They show up to divine worship on a big church calendar day to worship the new born
Christ or the risen Lord and you preach to them as if they don’t know Jesus???
But hey, so with the closing of the doors on Christmas, you have now turned the Christmas / Easter only people into Easter only people. Good job 😉
Steve,
“Just drift away from Christ until eventually even Christmas doesn’t keep you around….”
Well this is what we spent so much time discussing in Hebrews. Yes, you have almost quoted the writer of Hebrews warning to believers word for word .
Thanks for supporting my position.
Andrew – back to your point, what was this Daniel diet about? Were they using Daniel as an example to prove themselves worthy of a new big building?
One thing about fasts – you are not suppose to fast on Sundays – as a representation of the resurrection, Sundays are feast days – not fast days.
after I leave school in a few minutes, I’m going to Starbucks, order up a coffee drink, request a red cup, tell them thank-you, leave a fat tip, and wish them a merry Christmas.
fil – why would you wish them Merry Christmas on the 10th of Nov. 🙂
Perhaps a Hearty Veterans Day
Andrew – back to your point, what was this Daniel diet about? Were they using Daniel as an example to prove themselves worthy of a new big building?
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Yep, and they even had a blog where folks writing about their experiences during the fast. What struck me as being so sad was those folks struggling on what to do Easter Sunday. Some wanting to keep fasting as a discipline and those wanting to break for Easter Sunday. But the fast culminated with the big building fulfilling the pastor’s VISION.
Andrew,
…and it’s ALL about the pastor’s “vision,” right? Because he “heard it from God.”
Horse hockey.
Yep its all about the pastor’s vision but I can tell you for sure he didn’t hear it from God.
MLD–happy Veterans Day! 😉
…and a happy New Year.
fil, I am going to Starbucks today to get a coffee to honor their freedom not to participate in the Christian religion. 🙂