Things I Think…

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115 Responses

  1. AA says:

    #1 That’s quite the alarm clock!

  2. AA says:

    Crude but effective I think.

  3. Jean says:

    How often will people respond to the cry of fire in a crowded theater?

  4. Scott says:

    Yep, you just knew the prophecy wonks would be out in full force.

    I happened to catch part of the Jim Bakker show yesterday.

    He had this guy on “prophesying” that God had raised up the Trumpster for a time like this and that God was going to restore 7 fold to America the riches satan had stolen.


  5. Michael says:

    Very effective.

    Just found out my Mac and internet hosting accounts have both been hacked…could be a long day.

  6. Kevin H says:

    So is England now the Beast?

    So now England is not only going to be fortunate enough as the United States and get wiped out by the Rapture due to so many believers leaving the earth, but they’re going to be left behind to be the Beast.

    Wait, if they are the Beast, that means they then will be attacking Israel. I thought the Bible has already definitively told us that it’s going to be Russia, Iraq, and Turkey (and maybe China, too) who are going to do the attacking. Somehow we missed England being in there, too.

    And isn’t cat vomit a sign of the times, too?

    Or am I misreading MacIntosh?

  7. Michael says:

    Cat vomit is a sign that it’s time to wake up… πŸ™‚

  8. Kevin H says:

    Line should read: “So now England is not only going to be not as fortunate as the United States”

  9. Xenia says:

    I was following Brexit because I am a hopeless Anglophile. I was just as surprised as everyone that it passed. I’ve been listening to the BBC and am hearing there is a lot of buyer’s remorse going on over there. Many people voted to leave as a way of thumbing their noses at the EU and the UK establishment and were shocked and dismayed that it actually passed. That might happen here. People will vote for Trump out of spite and will be dismayed if he wins.

    I was in Scotland just before their referendum on independence from the UK and boy, was it exciting! If I was a Scot (and I probably am, way back in the mists of history) I would probably have voted for independence, just for the exuberance of it.

    This reminds me of something Putin is supposed to have said: Those who don’t miss the old Soviet Union have no heart; those who want it back have no head.

    The Scottish heart wants to be Scotland the Brave again but the Scottish head said “Not a good idea.” The British heart said “Let’s get rid of this wretched, intrusive EU” and the British head, who believes it is a catastrophe, could not prevail.

    If I lived over there, I think I would have voted with my heart and not my head and I probably would have lived to regret it.

  10. Michael says:

    I can’t keep up with all the things going on in the world.
    The big news over my weekend was about Jerry Lee Lewis having a garage sale…

  11. Xenia says:

    It is entirely possible that Trump said the sinner’s prayer and it “took.” Hope for the best.

    If it was a genuine conversion I would expect to see him closing down his casinos and strip clubs very soon.

  12. Michael says:

    It is entirely possible.
    It is also possible that some day I’ll be the King of Sweden.

    Not probable, however.

    When the strip clubs shut down, I’ll send him a Bible with his name on it…

  13. Jean says:


    In last religion-related interview I heard, which was several months ago, Trump said he had never asked God for forgiveness and couldn’t recall ever sinning. But, perhaps he’s had a change of heart.

  14. Kevin H says:

    I (along with seemingly just about everybody else) don’t know enough to speak to the factuality of Trump’s supposed conversion. All I can say is that the timing of it sure is awfully convenient.

  15. Em ... again says:

    #6- i seem to remember someone here asserting that, if one says out loud, “Jesus is Lord,” they are saved… so to this declaration i would have to say … again….
    only God knows for certain πŸ™‚

  16. Michael says:


    We haven’t heard the allegedly reborn saint say this.
    We’ve only heard from those who want him to win the election and badly need the evangelical vote…

  17. As to the Trump conversion, my optimistic side tells me that any person can respond to Christ, and I ought not throw down the obstacle of my doubt that God can change any heart. In Russell Moore’s book “Onward” he writes:

    β€œThe next Jonathan Edwards might be the man driving in front of you with the Darwin Fish bumper decal. The next Charles Wesley might be a misogynistic, profanity-spewing hip-hop artist right now. The next Charles Spurgeon might be managing an abortion clinic right now. The next Mother Teresa might be a heroin-addicted porn star right now. The next Augustine of Hippo might be a sexually promiscuous cult member right now, just like, come to think of it, the first Augustine of Hippo was.”

    Yet, my cynical side hates the fact that such a conversion takes place in the midst of a political process. It would not be the first time a person expressed a religious experience to gain votes.

    Ah, to be as gentle as a dove and as shrewd as a serpent,,,

  18. filbertz says:

    chuckling over your #12 comment. cat vomit alarms are a sign that it’s time to convert to a dog. πŸ˜‰ Anxious to read Sebastian Junger’s new book “Tribe.” I’ll let you know if it’s as impacting as I anticipate. Otherwise, just laying low & finding solace wherever it’s to be found.

  19. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em, it was the Apostle Paul who made that claim. Romans 10
    9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

    But you know, that Paul guy wasn’t much of a blogger. πŸ™‚

    But, on the other hand I am the one who says if someone tells me they are a Christian, I take them at their word – I don’t give them a 20 item questionnaire or ask to see their giving records at church.

    Now with Trump I do listen to what he says and when he said he has never confessed his sins because he has not had a need to, well I take those words from his mouth also — even though they were the almost exact words said by Ted Haggard while he was the President of the NAE.

  20. Em ... again says:

    no one here has mentioned the revelation that someone had that Trump is the beginning of the unfolding of the events in the book of Revelation (Trump-et)…
    speaking of Sweden – you don’t want to be King of them – one of my daughter’s friends returned to her homeland to raise her family and now they want out sooo badly – evidently, we don’t hear very much of the crime wave there now… they’re trying to get to her husband’s homeland (Hungary, i believe) and are having a problem doing so because of the wave of German immigrants there… we are living in some very interesting times… i wonder if i’ll live long enough to see how it all comes out…

    cats and vomit – my husband’s cat used to leave his on the threshold of the garage door into the house (the garage was as far as this mean old lady allowed the cat to come into my dwelling) so we’d be sure to appreciate it … they are, i will concede, puzzling creatures

  21. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As to Christians being raptured out of England and the good old USA when are we going to get it straight that in all the “rapture” like stories in scripture the ones Left Behind are the believers and it is the reprobate that are taken.

    While the total population was taken away in the flood waters it was Noah who was left behind — and several other example.

  22. Em ... again says:

    #19- “9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.”

    yes, i know, but on the aforementioned thread you left out everything after the first 11 words and skipped to the 24th, leaving out vs 10 also – yours truly pointed out the heart’s part in it and,
    of course, only God knows that for certain, eh? πŸ™‚

  23. Mr Jesperson says:

    #1 thanks for reminding me why I do not own a cat. Your also reminding me why I left the Dispensensationalist camp. Best comment I heard about that came from Rick Joyner remarking that people are spending all their time and energy promoting and speculating on the Anti-christ when the book is called the “Revelation of Jesus Christ.” The center focus of the book is not the Devil, but a God on his thrown with His Son sitting at his right hand. But pedaling fear sells, and it is all about trying to serve two masters these days!

  24. AA says:

    Speaking of Sweden I have read many reports of the crime wave & sexual assaults on women. Seems the refugees are not assimilating well.

  25. Michael says:


    Miss Kitty sleeps next to me so when she starts yakking, I have to move quickly… πŸ™‚

  26. Michael says:


    Let me know about the book…and know you’re still in our prayers.

  27. Dan from Georgia says:

    The resident prophecy know-it-all at my workplace is off for a few weeks. I am sooooo glad I don’t have access to their Facebook page or care to read her blog.

    And amen to your #2 – so tiring seeing so many people act like they are PhDs on this stuff.

  28. Michael says:

    Did she get saved? I kid because I care…

  29. Dan from Georgia says:

    Is anyone really surprised that James Dobson is on Trumps board? Anyone?

  30. Babylon's Dread says:

    The good thing about blogging and Facebooking is neither require knowledge of your claims.

  31. Michael says:

    BD is displeased … even Southern venom has a sweetness to it…

  32. Jean says:

    “The good thing about blogging and Facebooking is neither require knowledge of your claims.”

    Perhaps many or most, but the content of this blog is produced with integrity. So, it is a good exception.

  33. Michael says:

    Thank you, Jean.

    BD knows me, he’s just irate with me at the moment.
    This too shall pass…

  34. Michael says:

    I’m pretty sure that somewhere in archives of Focus on the Family there are tapes of Dobson calling Paula White everything but holy.

    Now, she’s his favorite evangelist… πŸ™‚

  35. Jean says:

    I just found this Paula White quote on Wikipedia:

    “In 1984, whilst living in Maryland, she converted to Christianity. She later claimed to have received a vision from God shortly after her conversion: “When I was just eighteen years old, the Lord gave me a vision that every time I opened my mouth and declared the Word of the Lord, there was a manifestation of His Spirit where people were either healed, delivered, or saved. When I shut my mouth, they fell off into utter darkness and God spoke to me and said ‘I called you to preach the gospel'”.”

    What can one add to this?

  36. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em at 22 – I think the point previously is that no one can call Jesus Lord except by the spirit – so if Trump were to say Jesus Christ is Lord, I don’t have what it takes to call scripture a liar.

    But I doubt he is Lutheran so he will not be at our table. I guess your church will have to decide if he comes to yours πŸ˜‰

  37. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    What can one add to this?

    She’s not hard on the eyes. πŸ™‚

  38. Michael says:

    MLD got there before I did… πŸ™‚

  39. Jean says:

    I’m going to pull a word out of the Lexicon of the Baby Boomere and earlier generations, and just say to MLD and Michael:

    You’re incorrigible!

  40. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Hey, the spirit spoke to me. πŸ™‚

  41. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Speaking of the Swedes – we had The Big Big Swedish Band at our church this weekend – a concert Saturday night and at the 3 services on Sunday.

    They are on a tour through American Lutheran churches across the US. and have been doing so for 40 yrs.
    Over the years all I hear is that Christianity in Europe is dead and that in the Scandinavian countries the Lutheran churches under the state church are pastored by atheist pastors etc and only the old people go to church.

    Here was contingency of 60 people (this was like having the Benny Goodman band in church) play special music, play our hymns and a great group of people to talk to. and they were all young people 20 -35 So, with my preconceived ideas it struck me in the middle of the early service – I don’t know if it was a OMG moment or a LOL moment, but I realized that they were here as missionaries to us.

    Quite sobering.

  42. Rob says:

    So, the Donald never has to admit of ever sinning or needing forgiveness. Therefore, if he is presented the doctrine of original sin, he can admit the cursory need for forgiveness, never have to admit his own sin, and bingo, he’s now born again.

  43. Mr Jesperson says:

    #36 The Paula White quote is a textbook example of what a “Christian” narcissist sounds like. The bragging and self-glorifying is right up off the scale. Their is nothing Christlike about the lust for celebrity status for oneself.

  44. Erunner says:

    What happens if Brexit doesn’t come to fruition? Sounds like it’s not set in stone yet.

  45. nathan priddis says:

    The end really is near, it’s not a thing to mock. I just recently learned the publicist for Twisted Sister admitted the band is taking it. And they have been secretly for awhile.

  46. CostcoCal says:

    Here is my update for the day…

    “Have you heard that Barney, that cute purple dinosaur of (some) kiddies’ affections, is… THE BEAST OF REVELATION (sometimes referred to as the “Antichrist”!)?

    Well, it can be proven! Here’s how:

    First of all, start with that description of Barney:


    Then, of course, change every U to a V (which is proper Latin anyway — that’s what the Romans did).

    So now you have:


    Now, a crucial step, extract all the Roman numerals, which gives you:

    C V
    V L
    D I V

    Then convert these to regular, or Arabic, values:

    C = 100. V = 5. Total = 105.
    V = 5. L = 50. Total = 55.
    D = 500. I = 1. V =5. Total = 506.

    Finally, add them up.

    Total = 666! (See Rev 13:18.)

    Oh, yeah. Don’t forget that “Barney” has… SIX LETTERS!

    There you have it! Proof that Barney is the Antichrist. Please pass this on to every prophecy student you know. It is imperative that the truth gets out before it is too late!”

  47. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Nathan – even an old guy like me got it. πŸ˜‰

  48. nathan priddis says:

    MLD – That ones for you! lol

  49. Charlie says:

    #5 Unless Mike is really this guy.

  50. EricL says:

    CostcoCal @47, you are mistaken. It isn’t widely known, but Barney is actually the One-Eyed, One-Horned Purple People Eater who was put in the FBI’s witness protection program after witnessing a mob hit.

    The FBI gave him a fake eye and a new identity. They also provided him with ample food (some new kids every episode). Just remember, you didn’t hear it from me…

  51. London says:

    One of my favorite memories of living in Europe was going alone to Stockholm, Sweden. I was wandering around and saw a huge line of people on both sides of the street. Asked someone what was going on and they said it was the route the king was going to take. So, I stood on the curb with the rest of the crowd (what the heck, had no where else to be).
    Must have stood for 45 minutes or so, and was lucky enough to be close enough to the king’s carriage that I could have reached out and touched it. Quite fun…
    Somewhere I have a picture of the king and his lovely wife in that black carriage.

    I’m a fan of the king of Sweden. πŸ™‚

  52. London says:

    Same thing that happens when you tell your spouse you want a divorce, then back out of it.
    Things will never truly be the same even if you remain living together.

  53. Michael says:

    I’m just going to leave this right here…for those of you that think I’m nasty…this guy makes MLD sound like Mr. Rogers…

  54. Babylon's Dread says:

    Yes where I am from “Bless your heart,” means … “Die sucker!”

  55. Michael says:

    It’s a Southern art form…unfortunately, I have a Yankee tongue. πŸ™‚

  56. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am not a big JD Hall fan, but he has some good stuff here that I need to copy / paste and put in my quiver to use at a later time when no one will remember he said it but everyone will think I am a genius when I use them. πŸ˜‰

  57. Michael says:


    I have much scorn for him…but that was well said.

  58. Em ... again says:

    well, something is clear to me… pray for Donald – either way – he’ll need prayer to navigate the Christ-claiming hordes

  59. Tracey says:

    The prophecy wonks are already at it. Yep. Pastor Doctor Prophetess Big Kahuna Cindy Jacobs already has a video out about Brexit.

  60. gomergirl says:

    CostcoCal…. we have known Barney was the anti-christ for years. and the tele-tubbies are the horsemen, and …….

  61. Officerhoppy says:

    While it would be nice to have a believer as president is it that important to Christians to vote for a candidate that he be a follower of Christ? In a pluralistic religious culture, is it not enough that he is sympathetic to all religious beliefs? Many didn’t vote for Romney in the last election because he was a Mormon. Look what we ended up with!

  62. Michael says:

    “Look what we ended up with!”

    A two term president elected by a majority of the people who has a majority approval rating after almost 8 years.
    That’s what we ended up with.
    Not bad…

  63. victorious says:

    Many immoral men with destructive agendas once held temporary highly rated majority backed approval ratings.

    Oftentimes those who expressed temporary approval were desperate and deceived.

  64. Michael says:

    I knew that wouldn’t take long…:-)

    Because someone has political or philosophical differences doesn’t necessarily make them immoral and destructive, nor or their supporters necessarily desperate or deceived.

    That sort of verbiage does guarantee the end of dialog and endless strife and division.

  65. victorious says:

    I disagree. “Many” does not mean “all” True in hindsight it is more hyperbolic than the word “some”. It was a counter balance to your weighted statement which is a sign of dialogue.

    I am going to listen and pray and probably grieve that a certain someone is being allowed into a prominent pulpit in a few minutes. I think we are probably within an overall circle of agreement about this particular unrepentant spot in a love feast .


  66. I agree with Michael. I have read so many political biographies over the years (although I read some autobiographies – I prefer a biography written at least 30 yrs after the fact) You find out after someone culls through the records what influenced a presidential decision – and it is usually something that non of us are aware of and even the advisors didn’t recognize where there advise came from. Some times it is like a ricochet – very few decisions are made based on personal wants.

    Immorality is a big charge – you can probably lay a lot at Obama’s feet, but I do not think that immorality is one.

  67. Politics are funny. I see some ranting about the Supreme Court decision today and the call “the state of Texas has the right to…”

    But here in California, where the state is ready to “exercise” it’s right to restrict Christian Universities, I will guess that all of a sudden the state really should have that kind of legislative ability.
    ** As a footnote I am against the legislation.**

  68. Michael says:


    Yep, we are.
    I’m fixing to pour me a stiff one and watch him lie…

  69. Who is in what pulpit?

  70. Michael says:

    Skip is preaching at the pastors conference…

  71. Michael says:

    MLD’s 1st paragraph at #67 is gold for history buffs…so true, so often.

  72. Jean says:

    I have harped on this before, but it’s not sexy and it places a lot of responsibility on parents, but if you want a very good data point of American excellence and future potential (economic as well as national security) follow the high school SAT and ACT scores, and listen to your candidates’ plans to improve them.

    Despite platitudes, fear mongering, burying one’s head in the sand, scape goating, or talk of walls, America is in a winner take all global economy. Either our workforce is going to move up the technology ladder, or incomes are going to come down to levels that previously would be unthinkable.

    It really does start with each of us as individuals and as parents and grandparents. There’s no campaign slogan that will fix this.

  73. I don’t know who the guy is speaking (a Cuban guy) , but it is not Skip but he is typical evangelical talk – it is about him.
    He said he used to be full of himself – this whole talk is all about him.
    However his mom sounds like a Christian.

    Now I see his name Manny.

  74. Xenia says:

    Manny Collazo?

  75. Michael says:


    I loathe testimonies…55 minutes of what a badass someone thinks they were, five minutes of Jesus…if that…

  76. Jean says:

    Why would he proclaim Christ to a room of pastors and leaders?

  77. Michael says:


    Please don’t set me up to answer those kind of questions about a CC conference… πŸ™‚

  78. Xenia says:

    A Radical Redemption driven by Radical Prayer produced Radical Grace?

    Is this even true?

  79. Michael says:


    This won’t sit well with you… πŸ™‚

  80. Xenia says:

    He wants people to ask him hard questions. Boy, could I think of a few corkers….

  81. Jean says:

    I don’t know the context Xenia, but the concepts are out of order, and all the talk of “radical” is really annoying. But the driver being “radical prayer” places guess who in the driver’s seat? The statement appears to be a warm pile.

  82. Michael says:

    Compare this stuff with what you would hear in any other denominational conference…except perhaps the IFB.

  83. victorious says:

    The disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray probably because they observed the dynamic of prayer present in His life that transcended the ritual and doctrine they had previously known .

    Jesus brought forth a bold invitation to pray in His instruction to His disciples .

    The greatest doctrinal epistles that we know are interlaced with prayer . . . Prayer is embedded within the practices of life in the Spirit in the book of Acts

    And your issue is ?

  84. Michael says:


    I have no issue with prayer.
    I have huge issues with 40 minutes of blather about how bad someone was followed by a (weak at best) mention of prayer.

    Your mileage may vary…I had to get a larger drinking glass.

  85. victorious says:

    I had similar thoughts in his delivery and the story and the embellishments; but it is where he ended up that I think Jesus is quite pleased with. Why would the Chief Shepherd not be pleased with an exhortation to prayer accompanied by a workshop where under shepherds are going to pray ?

  86. Xenia says:

    I have been out of this world for over 15 years. I forgot how things were .

  87. Michael says:

    My guess is that the Chief Shepherd would have been more pleased if he had started where he finished.

    I confess that I’m so far from this sort of “church’ that it does little but irritate me.

  88. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean, the question isn’t why he would preach Christ to pastors, the question is why the pastors would spend the gas money to come hear his story.

  89. Xenia says:

    Actually, Skip is giving a pretty good talk.

  90. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Xenia, LOL I said the very same thing last night at the end of the weekend word thread. That I had been gone 10 yrs and how foreign it had become to me.

    So now when I hear people expound on what I am sure I used to teach myself, I look at them in wonderment and amazement.

  91. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Did I miss Skip? My wife and I have been binge watching The Good Wife.

  92. Xenia says:

    He’s on now.

  93. Michael says:

    He’s always had good writers…

  94. victorious says:

    I wonder if Jesus loves elders ( I forget what he publically called them) who might have the character and the tenacity to call you to account for your treatment of the people of God they labored in love ffor.

    It seems like people are theoretical character sketches to Skip.

  95. vic, he had called our church (Ocean Hills) an elder infested church.

  96. victorious says:

    Thanks MLD. I remembered the intended word picture was meant to evoke something like a plague of destructive and invasive insects to rationalize his removal of them.

  97. brian says:

    JD Hall is light weight if you want really great polemics take a look at some of the Redemptorists of the 1800’s. Some IFB old timers can really lay it on thick or Luther and other reformers when some of their words carried the power of the secular sword. Those were the good old days.

  98. Babylon's Dread says:

    Does anyone remember the last time anyone cared what James Dobson said about anything. Is he even topside?

    I wish Christians would just admit the Republicans have a lousy unreasonable and unsupportable candidate but the party will get their support because whatever he is he is not a democrat … we hope.

    I mean just own it. Trump is a losing hand but you have to deal the cards and play what you got.

  99. Babylon's Dread says:

    I would love to see some convo about “baby Christians”

    My experience says the new ones are dangerous. They are locked and loaded. It is the housebroke crowd that becomes thumbsuckers.

    Trump will never be in that crowd.

    Nor will Michael be king of Sweden.

    Trump has as much chance of being our President as Alex Jones has…

  100. Babylon's Dread says:

    When I read the Polemics report I could not help noticing how much the picture of Trump looked like the tone of the article.

    It was him to a T

  101. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I just read the Mike MacIntosh FB post. For all the time I spend pointing out that the Rapture Theolgy people read prophecy with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other (and everyone shouts me down “no we don’t)
    Well here we have the granddaddy of them all making that claim — Billy G

  102. Jean says:

    That post by MacIntosh had 161 shares.

  103. nathan priddis says:

    I am listening to Al Pittman speaking about grace and forgiveness. My experience as a christian is that when I am told to forgive, there is something that someone does not wish to be made know to the congregation.

  104. Muff Potter says:

    MLD @ # 103:

    We may not agree on a great many things, but when you’re right, you’re right on the money. Good call.

  105. Babylon's Dread says:

    @105 say what?

    Preaching forgiveness to hide sin?

    That has never occurred to me. Preaching love as a way of being soft on sin has.

  106. Michael says:


    Al Pittman is actually one of the good guys in CC…

  107. Michael says:


    Preaching forgiveness to hide sin is not unusual among some with much to hide…

  108. Al says:

    Anything worthwhile come out of the CC/Amway Pastor’s Conference?

    All that time and money and effort spent on what? The widow? The orphan? Helping the “least of these”? Being the “servant of all”? No?

    What then?

    To learn how to run your franchise better and grow your business? Or to learn how to homogenize a particular doctrinal angle better to sell to your followers?

    I am much less interested b/c I accept that Calvary Chapel will never take responsibility for itself and will never use its denominational tendencies to institute good structures and checks-and-balances….I just comment out of disappointment and disgust at the “church” i grew up in and spent over 35 years of my life in at one time or another.

    It really is sad and a waste of time and money that Jesus would have used much differently.

  109. Al says:

    I don’t believe in the church anymore. I don’t believe in Religion. I don’t believe in pastors and gurus and leaders.

    I believe in Jesus.

  110. Michael says:

    I will comment on that in a couple of days…

  111. Em ... again says:

    #111-that raises a question in my mind – what Jesus? the nice teacher and victim or the one resurrected, ascended and returning King or …?

  112. Al says:

    ” what Jesus? the nice teacher and victim or the one resurrected, ascended and returning King or …?”

    Dunno. Seems that OT folks pre-Jesus didn’t have a clear understanding….yet had “faith”…and it is assumed there were some humans saved pre-Jesus.

    Not many had a “correct understanding” of Jesus before the church fathers took many many years defining and then telling us what “correct” was….yet we assume there are many who had “faith” during those time periods as well….

  113. Al says:

    Em, my guess is that “faith” in Jesus is not such an intellectually correct exercise….more a heart thing and spirit thing…though the traditional view of Jesus in terms of his description is probably as valid as any. I think if you hope in Jesus as the Messiah in some form…then that is probably a good “faith”

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