Things I Think…

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112 Responses

  1. Robin says:

    I think the same too..

  2. Robin says:

    the church was better and more effective when she was persecuted and poor.

  3. Em says:

    Love these “thoughts.”
    When I moved out of my last home, the good Christian woman across the drive said to me, “well we won’t have to be nice to each other any longer.”. SAY WHAT ? ? ?
    A little cutie, former cheerleader. Turns out she couldn’t stand me. Whatdudido??? Dunno. To this day, I haven’t a clue…. Maybe it was because her husband did like me and my late husband? Dunno
    My husband knew how to ” stand.” As we are instructed to do in the Scripgtures. Stand, hold our ground – not fight.

  4. Em says:

    Poor and persecuted? God sees and Scripture does tell us He will pour out His wrath on this planet – in His time……

  5. Michael says:


    Thanks…history affirms us…

  6. Michael says:

    Thanks, Em…you’re pretty easy to get along with, actually…

  7. Linn says:

    I think it was Oswald Sanders who said “trust God and do the next thing.” That’s really all I know how to do right now. Grab that mask, and do the next thing (as long as it isn’t something I shouldn’t do). So, I go to work, run my errands, go to church, pray often, read the Scriptures, knowing that God is in charge of whatever happens to me and with me. COVID, new or old strain, can’t change God’s work in my heart and life.

  8. samer Khoury says:

    #9 is one that nobody should object to! Merry Christmas brother. Never commented on your Pope post but I was moved by his words and I’m not a Catholic but I hope I can be like that man.

  9. Michael says:

    Always good to see you here, my friend.
    They were good words, indeed…

  10. Em says:

    #2 – God so loved the world….. Hell is something that does not make sense to me, but since God has prepared such a place, I KNOW there is justice there…..
    “I will be like the most high God!”. Uh oh

  11. filistine says:

    I tell you, Michael, that the news of another variant that has grabbed the media’s attention and is being heralded as the next big hurdle may sell copy, but it also is taking the wind out of those (like me) who are hanging on by finger tips. We need a break. Further, the policy makers are digging in on, wait–you guessed it, further vaccinations/boosters rather than shifting resources to the nations whose unvaccinated populations are host to the mutations coming to our shores–India, South Africa, etc.
    Regarding #10–I’m too tired to be mad at anyone except the moron who can’t drive well. That doesn’t preach too well. 😉

  12. filistine says:

    I attended a fine Anglican church in Plano, TX last week–if that one were here, I’d be there. I loved it.

  13. Michael says:


    It’s really getting to me too.
    One of my doctors claimed last week it was already here…I don’t know what to believe or who.

  14. Michael says:

    We’re trying to bring a fine Anglican Church here…what was it that you liked?

  15. filistine says:

    The music, the liturgy, the “sermon,” the ‘gravitas.’ It didn’t hurt that it was Christ the King week in the calendar…I didn’t mind the things I thought would annoy me, in fact, they were insignificant.

  16. filistine says:

    I didn’t partake in communion, but could’ve.

  17. Michael says:

    Music is going to be harder…but I think we can replicate the rest.

    You have an open invitation to be a deacon…

  18. filistine says:

    custodian perhaps. Blow leaves out of the parking lot. Toilets. Vacuum. Cobwebs. Kitchen duty. Anything quiet. 🙂

  19. Michael says:


    You are on of Gods great untapped, abused, resources…as is your wonderful wife.
    The church needs you and you’re welcome to fill any spot you desire…we just have to get it all together…

  20. filistine says:

    kind of you to say.
    keep me posted.
    the world is full of surprises.

  21. bob1 says:


    I think the lack of this has been behind a lot of folks leaving evangelicalism.

    Of course, all the scandals are a big factor, too…

  22. Officerhoppy says:

    Just a question:

    Could it be that the decline in evangelicalism—or Christianity in general— is due, at least in part, to the fact that it’s values are not instep with those of the current culture? As one scholar wrote,

    “If the Christ we follow sent out his disciples with no extra possessions (Luke 9:1-6 and 10:1-12) and warned would-be devotees that he had nowhere to lay his head (see Luke 9:57-62), then we must recognize that it is extremely difficult to live in a Christian way in a consumer culture.’ Furthermore, we have to ask if it is really possible to have genuinely Christian worship in such a culture – characterized as our society is by individualism (rather than biblical community), consumption (as opposed to generosity and sharing), manipulative advertising (instead of truth), and intentional fomenting of desires (in contrast to the scriptural recognition that human desires often derive from our sinful nature and must, therefore, be frequently held in check).”

  23. Reuben says:

    Thought #1 & #2…

    would simply change the face of western christian culture entirely, a notion that would drive this nation’s Christians up a wall. The fight to prevent that would be ten fold what it assumes responsibility for now.

    I am glad I swung by, Michael. Still proving yourself to be the most rational Christian I know.

  24. Michael says:

    Good to see you, Reuben!

  25. Michael says:


    Christian values have never been (or meant to be) in step with the prevailing culture.

    The current dilemma is wholly associated with the replacement of Christian values with those of Western civilization and the belief that they are one and the same thing.

  26. Reuben says:

    Thought #4…

    Boy howdy

    One of the largest reasons there are literally first Baptist churches right across the street from each other, and we all know what differentiates them

  27. Reuben says:

    I have learned that racism is simply a lack of familiarity

    Black Christian Culture overpowers my senses with a profound display of unadulterated dedication that I never once experienced as a white christian male…

    If I ever churched again, It would be in the “other” First Baptist Church

  28. Michael says:

    The music is better too… 🙂

  29. Reuben says:

    haha! Mississippi Mass still moves me to tears! What power of worship! They literally know what it means, that it is absolute abandon

  30. Officerhoppy says:

    Still using my Stomp!

  31. Reuben says:

    Hopps, that thing is brilliant. is it not?

  32. Officerhoppy says:

    I agree with your response. The question for me is how does the gospel message gain traction in light of cultures changing values? Some times I feel like I am explaining a rainbow to a blind individual.

    For instance, the words, sin and evil have different meanings than what the scriptures define.

    Know what I mean?

  33. Officerhoppy says:

    That’s all the outboard equipment I use. I am playing a Brazilian Rosewood,2001 Taylor. Made only 92 of them that year. Also an OM model hand made Morgan guitar. He only makes a about 50 a year.

    The Stomp makes them both sing. Thanks for the recommendation

  34. Reuben says:

    It is still my pleasure to bring any experience in those matters to anyone willing to entertain

    I have a pedal board as vast as the stars. The Sonic Stomp revolutionized my playing over all else. I was playing Days Of The New’s new song Limited Eyes on it yesterday

  35. Michael says:

    “The question for me is how does the gospel message gain traction in light of cultures changing values? ”
    Pretty simple, actually.
    Quit worrying about defining terms and start defining and living behaviors.

    This generation doesn’t care about our theological language…they care about actions.

    Display the sacrificial love of Christ on micro and macro levels and people will be attracted to Jesus.

  36. Reuben says:

    “This generation doesn’t care about our theological language…they care about actions.”


    Entire generations have seen the manifestation of your faith in blood. Change that? Change the world.

  37. Reuben says:

    Hopps, if you have not trie a Tonewood Amp for everything the Stomp can’t do, you are in for an absolute mind blower

  38. Jean says:


    “Could it be that the decline in evangelicalism—or Christianity in general— is due, at least in part, to the fact that it’s values are not instep with those of the current culture?”

    As the culture descends further into violence, greed, all sorts of immorality and gender confusion, as it is doing currently, the differences between biblical Christian values and the culture’s values will grow ever wider. This divergence of values will result in friction between historic, biblical Christianity and the culture.

    When it becomes uncomfortable to be a Christian in a society, nominal Christians will either embrace the faith to endure the discomfort, or they will drift away from the faith and the church to avoid the discomfort. The devil loves this.

    When it becomes uncomfortable to be a Christian in a society, some churches and church bodies will abandon the historic faith (to the extent they ever had it in whole or in part) to assimilate cultural values. This is what the devil really wants – to destroy entire church bodies.

    However, historically, Christianity has grown during periods of persecution, and Jesus, himself, has promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against his church, and, speaking through John, Jesus tells us that he is the ruler of kings on earth. Therefore, we need not fear nor become anxious for the church. It is the body of Christ and he will see to its health and future.

  39. Reuben says:

    Jean, you are not persecuted. You don’t know what that word means.

  40. Michael says:

    The last generation isn’t afraid to call bs on our hypocrisy and sell out to nationalistic values.

    There is actually little difference between the values of the church and the culture…we judge churches by success and not faithfulness, we enable and tolerate abuse of every stripe, and feel proud that our sexual sins are only heterosexual for the most part.

    We respond with doctrinal statements instead of repentance.

    Maybe if we really were different, someone would notice…

  41. Jean says:

    Did I ever claim I am persecuted?

  42. Reuben says:

    Imagine the outer circle Muslim who are the vast majority of Muslims, and imagine them outcast for their very Liberal views, of race and religion, and imagine what minority dictatorships expect of them, the minority who demands outright hatred and bigotry of even their own kind… they die for that minority position even though they are the majority… they literally pay with their lives, and you honestly don’t know what persecution is, truly you don’t, because your god is not central to religion anymore, but others suffer at the hand of ones who are

    I am being as light handed as I can be in this matter

    Your lack of comprehension of what is happening on this planet right now leads you to fantastical notions that simply are not even remotely true

  43. Jean says:

    I don’t know who the “we” are, but it certainly does not include my tradition. I feel sorry for whoever you include in the “we.”

    In my tradition, the gospel hasn’t changed, the Word of God has not changed, our confessions haven’t changed and our churches remain faithful. Thousands of churches around the country worship using liturgies that go back hundreds and more than a thousand years. Our schools, from pre-K through Seminary remain faithful to our biblical worldview and our confessions.

    Reuben, you don’t know my God; you don’t know my comprehension, and I don’t care how heavy or light handed you want to be. However, if you want to have a conversation, I am happy to do so.

  44. Em says:

    Sometimes, even as I read good observations here, I think the church is like the old story of the frog in the pot. Will we wake up and take a firm stand before the water in that pot starts to boil? ? ?
    HOWEVER, I firmly believe that God’s plan is proceeding just as He knew it would…. 🙆

  45. Reuben says:

    The only reality you can relate with if you have been reading this blog for the last 12-15 years is this: Christianity kills its own

    Your religion is no different than others, simply more advanced in marketing

  46. Reuben says:

    Don’t ever speak the word “persecution” until you comprehend what it means, Jean

  47. Michael says:

    We have taken this as far as it can go…

  48. Michael says:

    Actually, Jean, I don’t know your God either, so Reuben and I have something in common…

  49. Jean says:

    “Actually, Jean, I don’t know your God either”

    That is sad.

  50. Michael says:


    Why would that be sad to you…it’s a Lutheran badge of honor to not be in communion with the rest of the Body…which is nothing like the God I do know…

  51. Reuben says:

    Anglicanism was the last taste I could take precisely because of communion. The body and blood does not seem to care about your faction when it comes to reverence and acknowledgement

    There was no, “I am of Paul…” at the table

  52. Jean says:

    “Why would that be sad to you…it’s a Lutheran badge of honor to not be in communion with the rest of the Body…which is nothing like the God I do know…”

    It’s very sad when you say you do not know my God. It is extremely sad because there is no other name under heave by which a person may be saved.

    Confessional Lutheran practice of closed communion is the practice of the majority of worldwide Christendom and has been since the beginning. We are no different that the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox in our closed communion practice (I can’t speak for other conservative branches of Christianity which may have closed communion).

    It’s also not a badge of honor. It is a topic of sorrow that the church is divided.

    However, aside from the Lord’s Supper, Lutheran’s do confess the “communion of saints” in the Creed. In that respect, we believe that there is a spiritual communion that all orthodox Christians share who confess the name of Jesus as Lord and believe in their heart that God raised him from the dead.

  53. Michael says:


    I am having a …difficult…morning.

    I’m really not interested in engaging with you…I do not challenge your orthodoxy,but simply can’t fathom your notions about the faith…no matter how many of your brethren there are.

    You view things with mechanical certainty…which is probably comfortable, but beyond the actual experiences of anyone I know.

    It works for you…it repulses me.

    I’m sure that God will correct us both in due time.

  54. Michael says:

    If our church plant gets off the ground, communion will be offered promiscuously to all baptized believers.
    Far be it from me to withhold Christ from family…

  55. Michael says:

    “It’s very sad when you say you do not know my God. It is extremely sad because there is no other name under heave by which a person may be saved.”

    I missed this gem…

    I’ve known Jesus all my life…and you can’t and won’t take that away from me with your proclamations of doctrinal certainty.

    If I didn’t know Jesus that last sentence would have been much more “colorful”.

    You need to hang out at “Issues Etc.” and knock yourself out with your brethren congratulating yourself on how right you are…

  56. Jean says:

    I don’t congratulate myself for my faith. Everything I have received from God is by His grace alone.

    I am not a fan of Issues Etc. and I don’t listen to it.

  57. Jean says:

    “I’ve known Jesus all my life…and you can’t and won’t take that away from me with your proclamations of doctrinal certainty.”

    I took nothing away from you. You were the one who wrote: “Actually, Jean, I don’t know your God either”.

    I don’t know why you want to tear me down. I didn’t attack you at all. I simply commented to Officerhoppy regarding his question about the decline of Christianity and culture.

  58. Michael says:


    You don’t comment…you lecture and proclaim.

    Your God and mine are not on the same page…or, more accurately, your understanding of God and mine are not on the same page…to the degree that it appears to be two different faiths and two different gods.

    For whatever reason…it is really irritating to me these days.

    By the way…I’ve received communion from a Roman Catholic Church and have always had very warm encounters with the local Orthodox.

    They wouldn’t give me communion, but they have given me their hearts on more than one occasion.

  59. Officerhoppy says:

    Thanks for the interaction with my question. We got a little off track…but that’s nothing new.

    One more question: have you spoken with a 30 year old or younger non professing follower of Christ lately? A 30 year old or younger believer?

    I ask that because I did recently and it kind of toppled my idealistic notions of communicating the gospel. I’m no spring chicken but i think, and others would agree, that I am not an old traditionalist hoping to never change. But as we talked, when it came to the topic of sin, we were comparing apples and oranges.

    So, it’s a challenge—at least to me—to communicate the historical redemptive message of the Bible.

    I do think that bible teaching from a pulpit or podium could be the least effective way to communicate the gospel. More appropriate—but time consuming—is thru relationship and earning the right to be heard. Which may be another reason evangelicalism or the church in general is in decline: people don’t have the time or energy to get outside the safety and comfort of their xtian bubble and develop those kinds of relationships especially with non believers.

    I dunno

  60. Jean says:

    “They wouldn’t give me communion, but they have given me their hearts on more than one occasion.”

    I’m very happy for you. That’s exactly how my church treats my Roman Catholic wife.

  61. Nathan Priddis says:

    I don’t believe culture to be in decline at all. It’s just culture.

    Historical Protestantism is in decline, but that doesn’t mean Christianity is in decline at all. I’m thinking here about the Parable of the Mustard. It ( a relative of cabbages ) grows into something larger then all the trees, and birds of the air come to rest in it’s branches.

  62. Michael says:


    I talk to people in that group all the time.
    We get more communication offline here than on.

    I don’t talk much about doctrinal formulations.

    I do talk about how broken all of creation is and that we are being rescued from that and how that rescue is happening…and how we need all the help we can get to expand the real kingdom.

  63. Duane Arnold says:


    When I talk to my 30ish friends, I find that initially, listening is much more important than talking…

  64. Michael says:

    The old “believe so you can save your own ass from hell “doesn’t resonate real well anymore…

  65. Jean says:


    If you measure culture by its values in proximity to the 10 Commandments, do you not see a growing divergence? Commandments such as do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, for example: do you not see a decline, as in a growing divergence from the 10 Commandments?

  66. Nathan Priddis says:

    No. Are there cyclical trends? Yes.

    Societies are larger now. So the number of events such as murders will be larger.

    If a society values religious teachings such as the ten commandments, it does not change the eternal status of the society’s members one bit.
    That which is flesh is flesh…

  67. Em says:

    Long years ago, in town where I grew up, there was an annual Good Friday service held in a f different church every year. My grandparents a!ways went and took me with them. One year we didn’t go and I asked my grandmother why. She answered that it was being held in the Lutheran church and those folk didn’t consider Nazarenes to be Christians….
    Looks like it hasn’t changed? ? ?

  68. Jean says:


    “If a society values religious teachings such as the ten commandments, it does not change the eternal status of the society’s members one bit.
    That which is flesh is flesh…”

    I agree with this and said nothing to the contrary. But that doesn’t change the fact that cultures improve and decline as a matter of civil righteousness. When I was growing up, children played outside in my neighborhood. Today, many parents would never let their young children play outside unattended. And the list goes on and on.

    I had never heard of the “smash and grab” mob store thefts until this year. I heard in San Francisco that the DA was not going to prosecute shoplifting if the amount at issue is less than $1,000. If that is true, then we are witnessing a decline into lawlessness in some areas of our country.

  69. PM says:


    This is a valid question but for me, I’m not sure the answer is as clear as what I’ve always believed. We speak and hear of the “good old days”, but related to the 10 Commandments, is there such a time? Worldwide, and for all of history, the 10Commandments have been trampled on. The specific “things” that trample may be changing but I’m not convinced of an ever widening gap. I’m middle aged, so I’ll admit my perspective is fairly narrow…I wasn’t alive during the “good old days”, maybe they were much better.

  70. Officerhoppy says:

    Thanks again for the responses.

  71. Jean says:

    Hi PM,

    I agree with a lot of what you wrote at 3:02pm. I too do not subscribe to the notion of the “good old days.” Good for who?

    I also believe that Revelation provides the paradigm for the times we are living in. John also wrote in his first epistle that “the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.” So I definitely believe that on a macro basis the world is full of unrighteousness.

    Still, on a micro level, there have been times when God, in his hidden providence, has blessed communities and/or nations for a time with peace and civil righteousness. Maybe we can only recognize this anecdotally.

  72. Jean says:

    Imagine what the health of your culture has become when prior and current public officials spread the notion (seriously and not in jest) that the Omicron Covid variant is actually the fabrication of a political party?

  73. Michael says:

    I don’t think that the variant is the creation of any political entity…but most people didn’t believe that Reagan used the proceeds of crack sales to finance the Contras or that we support the biggest cartel in Mexico, which is the Mexican government.

  74. PM says:


    I’m no longer shocked. I’ve followed some strange conspiracy rabbit holes the last two years and wonder how people have been manipulated so effectively.

    @Michael- I’m two books through the Don Winslow novels about the drug war era. Fascinating and they read as fact more than fiction. Have also read a couple of long form stories written by Bowden on the same topic. Fascinating, heartbreaking, and shocking, all at the same time.

    I like #3

  75. Michael says:


    Winslow and Chuck were friends…I’m always grateful to know that people are still reading both.

  76. Jean says:

    Michael at 4:26pm,

    I love it when you add your own sphere of interest to our conversation. It informs me (hopefully others too) and broadens our perspective.

    There’s so much wrong with our society that one person couldn’t cover the entire landscape. We all need each other (IMO).

  77. Nathan Priddis says:

    Don’t ask ..why where the old days better. They weren’t. They were just different.

    Society is just made up of individuals. And, all of us as individuals have slightly different concepts of what is good and bad behavior. Those concepts alter over time. Societies do not get better as you retrace history in reverse.

  78. josh hamrick says:

    I don’t think we’ve gotten further from the Ten Commandments. I think that is why they were written. Murder, theft, lying, idolatry were rampant, so God codified that they were wrong. We are close as a culture to following the 10, but they weren’t then either.

  79. josh hamrick says:

    I also don’t know why one person on this thread would understand persecution more than another person on this thread.

    Weird turn of comments.

  80. DH says:

    “Therefore, we need not fear nor become anxious for the church. It is the body of Christ and he will see to its health and future.”

    Nope. Julie Roys says that’s her job.

  81. Jean says:


    I lived in Japan for 3 years in the 80s in the military. I lived off base. The Japanese culture was way more law abiding than anywhere else I’ve lived. Homicides were very few. DUIs were few. Burglary and theft were rare. I’m not saying Japanese culture was perfect or did not have flaws, but culturally, they were much more law abiding than we are. I imagine there are many countries that are ahead of America in terms of obeying the 2nd table of the 10 Commandments.

  82. Michael says:


    What’s wrong with Julie Roys?
    The only difference between her site and mine is that she gets paid…

  83. Michael says:

    Japan is more law abiding…with about 0 reference to the Ten Commandments.

  84. DH says:

    I think it takes a lot of hubris or BIG misunderstanding to say you are going to restore something Jesus is building.

  85. josh hamrick says:

    Yeah, that’s my thought too.

    Japan doesn’t have the “Judeo-Christian” background we claim to have.

  86. Michael says:


    It’s a worthwhile goal…she’s saying that the church needs to be cleansed of vermin before it can be what Christ intended…and I agree.

  87. DH says:

    “Restoring the Church” That’s just a weird thing to say, restored to what?

  88. Michael says:


    So which of the vermin she’s exposed are you a supporter of?

  89. Jean says:

    The law of God is to an extent written in the hearts of all human beings.

    “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them”.

    My only points are twofold: (1) It’s beneficial to the inhabitants of a culture to live in accordance with the 10 Commandments; and (2) some cultures do a better or worse job of living in accordance with the laws revealed in10 Commandments.

  90. DH says:

    None, I’m all for shooing the birds when possible.

  91. DH says:

    Restored to what?

  92. Michael says:


    How about righteousness?

  93. DH says:

    Julie will finish the work God started in you.

  94. DH says:

    I’ll stop now.

  95. Michael says:


    You should stop because you’re wrong.
    Jesus overthrew the temple tables and Paul demanded that the unrepentant sinner be cast out.
    He asked the Corinthian church why they had shirked their responsibilities to God and the church.
    I ask the American church the same question…as does Roys.

  96. josh hamrick says:

    Jean – 1.) Agreed.
    2.) I don’t know if you can live according to the 10 by accident. Interesting thought.

  97. josh hamrick says:

    Just to be clear, Jean, I’m not arguing with you. I just think you’ve presented a fascinating idea. I’m thinking through it as I post.

    As far as following the 10 Commandments, I’m guessing the Japanese ignored the first 4 all together.

  98. Jean says:


    “As far as following the 10 Commandments, I’m guessing the Japanese ignored the first 4 all together.”

    Yes, that is correct. There is a huge difference, the difference between heaven and hell, between civil righteousness and righteousness before God. Everyone by their own wisdom, strength, will, and what have you, fails the first 4 all together. But, a lot of atheists and idolaters make excellent neighbors because they have a good degree of civil righteousness.

  99. JD says:

    You break one you’ve broke them all.

  100. Em says:

    Japan is an island, if they aren’t “civilized,” they will implode! ! !

  101. Muff Potter says:

    JD wrote:
    “You break one you’ve broke them all.”

    There isn’t a court in the land that will try you for murder when all you’ve done is jaywalk.

  102. josh hamrick says:

    Jaywalking isn’t one of the 10.

  103. bob1 says:

    I see Julie Roys surpassed her fundraising goal from Giving Tuesday…

  104. JimmieT says:

    Michael Dec 1. 4:46
    We’re you referring to Chuck Smith?

  105. Michael says:

    No, just making a general statement…

  106. Nathan Priddis says:

    A bit off topic..
    Reading today’s headlines, it appears LU has a campus police force. I think it is despicable for a private organization to have law enforcement operating under the organizational umbrella. Its not a tribal casino. Or, at least it’s not supposed to be the same concept as a tribal facilty.

    Maybe that’s what Brother Jerry meant with The Liberty Way.

  107. josh hamrick says:

    Every college I know of has campus police, public and private.

  108. Em says:

    Josh @3:05
    Yep, me too

  109. Nathan Priddis says:

    State colleges I can see. Private/ religious schools, no. I’m aware of religious schools that employ students in their security department. A relative did this while in school.

    He did not carry a firearm, take criminal reports or confront any potentially violent person. This was the job municipal police.

    It’s a conflict of interest for a private institution to take criminal complaints when the institution is a potential defendant.

  110. Muff Potter says:

    josh wrote:
    “Jaywalking isn’t one of the 10.”

    Respecfully josh, adultery is not the same as murder, and the basic principle of jurisprudence still applies. Which is why adultery is not considered a capital crime in our current court system.

  111. Em says:

    We have 10 verbotens from God and if we break one (we all do) – we are guilty…
    God help us to walk pleasing to Him…..

  112. josh hamrick says:

    Muff – Not sure where you are going with this. Jaywalking is not quite adultery either, is it?

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