Things I Think
1. Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church. He was not ill informed or a deluded optimist. He was and is God who is ruling and reigning over His kingdom as we speak.
2. The way of victory in the Christian life is always through sacrificial love, suffering, and death. I realize that the war metaphors and attitudes are far more attractive to my flesh, but they are also at odds with my Commander-In- Chief.
3. Correct me if I’m wrong (I’m sure you all will) but the only people I see killed by the God for their sin after the Ascension and before the Second Coming are two Christian hypocrites…
4. Jesus stated mission was to seek and save the lost. I too often seem intent on running off the Bosses new customers…
5.““You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,” (Matthew 5:43–44 ESV) To obey this command of our Lord, first you have to have an enemy or believe that you are being persecuted, or both. We all believe that this is happening culturally…how are we doing with our end of the deal?
6. This is just my opinion, (it is my blog), but until theological conservatives like myself become as adept at expressing the love and compassion of God as we are in expressing sound doctrine the rush to liberalism will continue unabated. There are those who will always choose to stay in their sins and reject the truth. Others simply reject the people who are speaking it and can’t hear past the attitude…
7. Contrary to popular belief, God often gives us more trials than we can handle…in order that we may learn to discern the difference between we and He. This is not an arbitrary or prideful exercise of authority, it’s giving directions to the hospital.
8. Be very careful about standing with someone on “the hill they would die on”…for it is the same hill they will slay you on if you’re not willing as well…
9. The shameful silence of the Reformed continues on even in the face of convictions in the latest child abuse scandal to rock the church. Silence is the new way of responding to scandal…confession and repentance are evidently for lessor beings.
10. The wondrous thing about getting older is that being wrong has become an opportunity to learn, not an embarrassment…and I have a lot of opportunities these days.
On a personal note, I don’t have much time online these days so please bear with me if I’m slow in responding here or through email.
phoenixpreacher@gmail.com
FIRST!!
Wow…that hasn’t happened for awhile.
#3 I’ll be the first. Acts 12:23, I believe.
Derek,
Good call.# 10 was prophetic…
#5 – “We all believe that this is happening culturally…”
I don’t, and if you properly understood God ruling in the 2 kingdoms you wouldn’t either.
Technically speaking, aren’t we ALL killed for our sin?
related to #9–the silence is every bit as shameful as that of the Roman church for its scandalous priest abuses…perhaps even more so as many Evangelicals who spoke out for the Catholics/Pope to take responsibility are now mute.
as for hills to die on, I try to remain on level ground.
Good stuff today Michael…i like your thoughts today. We may not agree on many things, while agreeing on some things…but I always consider your opinions and I think you try to be an honest broker.
Number 7 is so profoundly beautiful and true. Thank you!
You’ve got me thinking too.
On #6, I don’t quite know how we do this, but particularly among conservatives we could really use to try to control the people that seem to represent our voice in public. I might be wrong, but I think that a lot of us are better than we give ourselves credit for in showing love to people on a personal level, but there are some people that we allow to speak for us that make it hard for people to believe that is the case.
RiBo, Nonnie…thanks.
dswoager,
Some of the harshest people online are actually quite nice offline.
It’s an odd thing…
Btw Michael, I agree as well. Your thoughts for this Monday are refreshing. I know I just started posting with any regularity, but I have been enjoying Mondays in particular for quite some time, so thank you.
Why nothing supernatural today? Why doesn’t God smite folks like Herrod and Ananias and Sapphira?
Certainly there are examples worse than these today…like TBN and all the grotesquely false profits out there (profit spelled intentionally).
…and certainly there are many Herrod’s in governments of the world.
That’s one big issue that speaks against a literal interpretation of the bible…and something I can’t get around. There are zero real supernatural manifestations in any Camp…whether it be Christian*, Muslim, Occult, Hindu/Yogi, you name it.
MLD,
As I’ve been roundly scorched for being perceived as “soft’ on the gay agenda and all the implications of it, I have a bit of astonishment at your comment.
The narrative seems to be that persecution has come and more is on the way.
Do enlighten my ignorance…
As for the historicity of Jesus…I’ve been studying that a lot lately and there is much more than I thought there. Jesus as a literal human figure is corroborated by much other than Josephus and the Pilate Stone and the bible. Little doubt a “Jesus” and Christus or Chrestus walked the earth at the time of Pilate. Even the liberals like Crossan acknowledge a historical Jesus as fact.
dswoager,
I appreciate that…thank you.
Been studying the occult a lot lately as well as Islam, Hinduism (brushing up on those) and investigating any shred of verifiable supernatural manifestations. Nada. Just anecdotal stuff.
The occult is interesting.Aleister Crowley is quite a study in man’s depravity. No real evidence of “supernatural”…but some very interesting crossover with the Christian* religion on many fronts…and a dynamic in all religions I’m noticing. There are some similarities…and “supernatural” and “spiritual” etc…is more tapping into man’s innate psyche than it is anything else. It’s not “supernatural” in terms of walking on water…it’s psychological. There is something in each of us, latent potential for good or evil.
Crowley was also into a form of numerology and claimed to have communicated with praeterhumans and daemons etc, maybe, maybe not, but dynamic he describes is very similar to Christians* meditating and praying and feeling they are speaking to “god” and hearing from the holy spirit etc. opposite ends of the spectrum for sure, Crowley was an evil guy, very depraved…just interesting to learn that “supernatural” may not be the literal miracles of the bible at all.
1-10….hit the target again big brother…..I for one will stand on any hill with you….praying by your side big brother.
I imagine the way an occultist like Crowley describes “hearing from Aiwass” and transcribing his occult “Book of the Law” is a similar dynamic claimed by the authors of the bible and other sacred texts…believing they were getting the words from a spiritual entity.
Animal sacrifice of the Hebrews…animal sacrifice of the occultists. Similar dynamic.
hope everyone’s day is full of sunshine…
Quote 3 scriptures, tell a joke or two, then intersperse at least half a dozen stories about yourself and you have the Sunday morning study at many churches today. It seems obvious what has happened. The itchy-eared Moabite congregations worship the “minusthree”.
Dusty,
Thank you…hope your foot is ok!
Michael,
“Do enlighten my ignorance…” – don’t I daily? 🙂
Because I may have a difference of opinions with the homosexual community in no way (1) makes them my enemy or (2) do I feel that I am somehow being persecuted.
You should read up some about the relationship between Ronald Reagan and Tip O’Neil. Disagreed on absolutely everything, lit each other up in the press daily, called each other ruthless and uncaring, and after 6 pm would get together for drinks. They were opposing pals.
I have the same relationship with homosexuals, know many socially (even several who are married) and in business. I tell them they are knocking on hell’s door, and they call me a bigot … and then we go out for drinks
I tell my homosexual friends, I will do anything you want socially (have you ever been to a real flaming gay party? I have been to about a half dozen) or in business – but don’t waste the postage on a wedding invitation.
Interestingly, Crowley’s supposed sacred text from Aiwass included the declaration of a “new age” or aeon or (ainion aionios if it were greek for that matter as in ‘age’ not eternal LOL) in the evolution of human spirituality…the Aeon of Horus is pretty general, about as specific as a horoscope, but does generally describe mankind of the 20th and 21st centuries…but nothing too earth shattering, about as clear as Revelation or Nostradamas LOL.
Not buying it, but you can see some specs of observations and dynamics Crowley and the occultists glean from ancient religion, especially egyptology…and even from Christianity* and hinduism and buddhism etc.
Very very similar dynamics…but from a completely different angle. Seems to demonstrate man’s propensity for “spirituality” and demonstrates the human psychology in a rather interesting manner…and with similar dynamics to Christianity* and other religions.
Interesting crossovers and observations and predictions by Crowley for the “Aeon” he claimed we are in today since 1904:
“The Age of Horus and outlined the Law of Thelema, “Do What Thou Wilt Is The Whole Of The Law. Love Is The Law, Love Under Will”
“Everywhere his government is taking root. Observe for yourselves the decay of the sense of sin, the growth of innocence and irresponsibility, the strange modifications of the reproductive instinct with a tendency to become bi-sexual or epicene, the childlike confidence in progress combined with a nightmare fear of catastrophe, against which we are yet half unwilling to take precautions. Consider the outcrop of dictatorships, only possible when moral growth is in its earliest stages, and the prevalence of infantile cults like Communism, Fascism, Pacifism, health crazes, occultism in nearly all its forms, religions sentimentalized to a point of practical extinction. Consider the popularity of the cinema, the wireless, the football pools and guessing competitions, all devices for soothing fractious infants, no seed of purpose in them. Consider sport, the babyish enthusiasms and rages which it excites, whole nations disturbed by disputes between boys. Consider war, the atrocities which occur daily and leave us unmoved and hardly worried. We are children.”
RB,
You are spending too much time in that. Here is the low down.
Satan is a liar and an imitator. So, he has put before your these occultic writings and has said, look how phoney these are – isn’t that the same as the Bible?
And you started drooling and breathing heavily. Satan has fooled another one.
Actually, MLD, the spiritual satanists are kind of the yin to the Christian fundamentalist yang. They believe in God and satan and angels and demons just like you do.
The atheistic satanists, on the other hand, believe it is all just metaphor and archetype and analogy for the human psychology.
Very interesting stuff.
MLD, you are afraid of it, I can tell. It’s just another opinion by a group of humans and holds not real power. I don’t fear the occult stuff anymore, I see it for what it is…just another group of humans trying to make sense of things and creating their own religion.
Don’t let it scare you.
Actually, anything but Christianity is false – so it does not matter what they believe or why.
And you do not need to be a satanist to be under the influence or to be deceived by him.
It’s just not the reformed who are quiet about it.It’s a cross the entire spectrum of evangelism.Many Christians still live in the 1950’s and refuse to face the realities of living in the 21century.(9)
“Don’t let it scare you.”
I don’t fear non real things
Though, I actually hope I can find some legit supernatural manifestations verified in the occult, as that would prove the supernatural and would make me less liberal theologically within Christianity*
MLD said, ““Don’t let it scare you.”
I don’t fear non real things”
Agreed.
So you are saying you don’t believe in literal demons?
None of it scares me or holds any power for me b/c I don’t think it’s real in a literal sense.
I don’t think there are literal “demons” …it’s most likely a metaphor.
Satan is real – demons are real … satanism and satanic arts are not real.
MLD said, “Actually, anything but Christianity is false…”
But, these folks claim they are “Christianity”
MLD said, ” satanism and satanic arts are not real.”
Really…why does the bible claim it is real? Hmm, so you don’t really believe the bible is literal and w/o error or mistake after all.
MLD, what “miracles” and “sorcery” were the Pharoah’s magicians doing as stated and claimed in the Old Testament?
RiBo @ 14 stated…..”Why nothing supernatural today? Why doesn’t God smite folks like Herrod and Ananias and Sapphira?”
RiBo, how do you know for sure that God doesn’t smite folks today?
You are funny. I said Christianity is true – I did not claim everyone who claims the name is a Christian … it’s why I always have my doubts about you.
I think you need to show me where the Bible states that ‘satanism is true’ the practice of following satan. in fact I don’t think we see anyone voluntarily follow and set up a worship system to satan. I think we see that he invades people.
As to Pharaoh my very first comment is that satan is a liar and an imitator. He could imitate, but couldn’t do it superior to God’s plagues nor could he come up with original ones. Why didn’t pharaoh do the 10th plague?
But we can’t keep talking just you and me – there are select folks here who will complain to the boss that we hog it up.
Goose said, “RiBo, how do you know for sure that God doesn’t smite folks today?”
B/c Benny Hinn is still doing his song and dance routine as well as so many other false profits and nothing happens to them…and the child abusers and child molesters in the Christian* church leadership are still upright and breathing as well.
God may smite dudes like Hitler…but only in the sense that you would believe that he sent the US Military as the agent of smiting, God didn’t strike him down magically and devour him with worms.
“God didn’t strike him down magically” – yes he did, he made Hitler kill himself.
MLD, you stated, ” satanism and satanic arts are not real.”
Do you want to retract that statement?
What were Pharaoh’s magicians practicing if not “satanic arts”? Where did they get their power the bible claims they had and manifested?
MLD, do you deny that the bible explicitly and clearly states that Pharaoh’s magicians did real supernatural manifestations?
Exodus 7:22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts
Bible says they did the same supernatural things that Aaron and Moses did that were from God…and even calls it “arts”…which arts if not satanic arts?
Exodus 7:11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts:
So I guess the occultists caught the Cessation cold as well…b/c they can’t do real miracles today, just like the Christians…but the bible says there was all sorts of supernatural miracles by both God and satan back in the day.
Doesn’t add up folks, Likely, it’s all metaphor.
by THEIR secret arts:- magicians … ever hear of David Copperfield? Was he tied to satan???? I saw him make a 747 disappear … I think it was a trick and not satan.
OK, now that we have heard from satan’s lobbyist – anyone else have anything to say?
“Correct me if I’m wrong (I’m sure you all will) but the only people I see killed by the God for their sin after the Ascension and before the Second Coming are two Christian hypocrites…”
I believe Herod’s death as described in Acts 12 qualifies as an exception.
overcoming-lust.com
MLD, actually I’m calling b.s. on the ‘miracles’ of the bible as literal.
Why were the satanists like Pharaoh’s dudes able to do legit miracles according to the bible in bible times…but not today?
Doesn’t really make sense that satan stopped doing miracles in the occult, like the bible says satan did in the Old Testament.
It’s one thing to claim Cessationism for the Christians…but quite another to say the devil stopped doing miracles as well.
What it suggests is that it was folklore and exaggeration and metaphor and not really literal…or the occultists would be able to demonstrate real supernatural manifestations today…and they can’t…they are as fake as Benny Hinn and Todd Bentley and other Christian “miracles”
MLD said, “by THEIR secret arts:- magicians … ever hear of David Copperfield?”
The bible says Pharaoh’s magicians did the ‘same’ things as Aaron and Moses…same miracles.
Are you stating that Aaron and Moses were performing tricks and illusions? Hmm, I might agree with you there then.
MLD, you can’t slither out of this one LOL. It is what it is.
OK RB – I am trying not to hog up the thread.
You win, you have made the case that your satan is as great as God. Good job … you made satan proud.
not my satan, your satan. I don’t really believe in a literal satan, I think it’s likely metaphor.
You believe in satan, so do the satanists and occultists…just pointing that out.
OK, so you believe Jesus was like some homeless guy on the street talking to himself … well, talking to a metaphor when he was taken into the wilderness?
Good job again – get people to believe that your father the devil is really just a metaphor.
You will need to continue this conversation with others, your heart is too darkened for me.
The metaphor is likely a description of human nature. MLD, I see “satan” and the “devil” in you sometimes by your actions and behaviors. Humankind is the devil inside…capable of doing bad things and evil things…and “god” (little g) is the likely the metaphor for the great good that most humans are capable of and example as well…which I also see in you sometimes.
I’m personally convinced that something we call “God” exists…but we don’t understand and can’t understand…but that the “spiritual” b.s. of the occultist/satanist and the Christian is about on par…neither can demonstrate real supernatural things, both are as fugazzi as a $10 Rolex in that sense.
But, there is good and evil and the human psyche and our Universe is very complex and much of the reality of it we are unable to see and understand.
One thing I do see evidence for: The occultists practice depraved acts which they believe gives them power. In reality, all they are doing is tapping into mankind’s innate psyche and feeding their animal side and their depraved passions and inflaming them…basically feeding the evil wolf of the native american parable.
Christians* attempt to feed the “fruit of the spirit” and feed the good side of humans…which results in generally better examples of living by shunning the depraved passions of humanity and trying to deny those bad things…while trying to feed the good wolf of the native american parable which results in good habits and a less depraved and less sensual life.
I believe Jesus walked the planet and I believe Pilate resided over his execution.
I believe Jesus taught some good things…as much as we can trust the copies of copies and re-translations.
He claimed he was “the son of god” and he certainly might be.
MLD said, “You will need to continue this conversation with others, your heart is too darkened for me.”
Now you are projecting. My “heart” tries to discover the little bit of truth we can verify today and, in general, I try to follow the “good Jesus” presented in the bible, while trying not to be the bad Jesus/God of the Old Testament and Revelation who nukes everyone and smites his enemy etc…though that is always a temptation as humans.
….and “heart” is metaphor…you do know that your heart doesn’t have feelings and doesn’t process information and doesn’t contain the Conscience or Reasoning ability etc…it pumps the blood 😉
Best extant corroboration of a literal “Christ” IMO:
“Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.”–Annals by Tacitus (roman historian) in 109 A.C.E.
Foot is broken need to see orthopedic doctor
#3 um, what about all those heathens killed by God in Revelation chs 6-18?
God is an equal opportunity smiter. He even smote Jesus. And, according to the Apologetic, most of humanity will be smote when it is all said and done…but hopefully that’s wrong.
Personally I just want to do the right thing by God.
I agree with MLD. RiBo, you are not christian. I think you may be humanist, but not Christian.
There’s no judgement in that statement, just that Christians, by definition, believe Differently about Jesus than you seem to.
Only comment I will be making on the subject.
Just seems that if you have to look to Satanists to find the “proof” of the supernatural that you seem to need to prove that God did(does) miracles, then you haven’t found God as Christians define him.
Again, no judgement involved. Just observation.
London, while my current opinions are certainly not “orthodox” you can’t really make an argument that they are necessarily not “Christian” and get you not saved.
…otherwise, you are arguing for something other than “faith” and for something called “Correct Doctrine” which is not the same as a major tenet of the typical apologetic.
It’s a rather interesting conundrum for fundamentalists. Push too hard on the “Correct Doctrine!” button and you start removing the child-like faith assumption and the faith of a Rahab, the faith of a Thief on the Cross, the faith of all those who preceded a “Correct Doctrine” or all those who hold a different doctrinal opinion on any number of core issues.
Read something on the net the other day. Some scholar made the case that Jesus only ministered publicly before his death for one year and not three as most believe.
He does a time line mentioning the Jewish feast as his indicator of events in the stereo gospels.
Even if he is right it makes the things Jesus did even more incredible having done all in such a short time span.
The other nuance is that I haven’t really stated what my position regarding “Jesus” is.
I think he is most likely a historical figure and very well could be the messiah. My assumption is that he is the messiah, but like you and all the others…when pressed…I cannot prove it (and neither can you)…and no profession of faux-certainty makes it so.
You can profess a certainty…but you are no more certain than I am as you cannot definitively prove it….you are reduced to expressing a belief based entirely on faith…which is different than certainty.
Ah but it does state that the just shall live by faith.
Dave, that theory would tend to make more sense as you’d think the fame of several years worth of real supernatural stuff going on would have been more cemented in history. It would lend more credence to the paucity of Jesus narrative we find in extant sources…that and the fact that jerusalem was destroyed so thoroughly in 70 A.D. which may have burned some extant hebrew writings about Jesus and his exploits as well.
Morpheus offers his pills, faith or certainty…
Dave said, “Ah but it does state that the just shall live by faith.”
It says that…it says a lot of stuff.
But, again, what is “faith”?
Faith is not certainty…certainty is not faith…yet the typical Christian* apologetic is so constructed on “correct doctrine and correct theology and you must be certain!”
Hey, if all the Christians* were absolutely certain of their “faith” etc, they’d live a lot differently.
Christian action expresses uncertainty more than any verse you can point to.
Chuck Smith may have had some measure of “faith” but he didn’t have certainty. He acted like a typical man, afraid of the earthly consequences of being honest when facing a lawsuit and loss of money.
I have certainty in Gravity…I have faith that my friends will always be there for me.
I for one am tired of hearing how certain RiBo is about his uncertainty.
He can’t ever back up his philosophical ramblings with any thing practical like a translation of the Matthew 25 verses to back up his assertions about the meaning of eternal.
He merely delves into this and that and thinks it makes him appear so much more of a thinker than everyone else here and then he can tell you how much broader his mind is than everyone else.
But, like I said, his philosophical ramblings are never practical and eventually he lets slip the truth and the mask slips enough for people to see the real face he thinks he needs to keep up to an extent.
London is right. He shows himself to be a humanist, but that is about it.
I agreed with MLD long ago.
If he can only express as much certainty in Christ as his #72…well I think that explains it all.
No, I disagree Derek. They are my opinions and I answered your questions thoroughly regarding Matthew 25, you just didn’t like the answers. You are free to opine and to disagree, but you always start the personal attacks, to which I usually respond in kind once you start down that path. You are an example of the typical Christian* I describe above. Your actions expose you much differently than your words. You respond as many do which is telling and demonstrates the truth more than your professions and creeds.
By the way, kudos to MLD in your #58.
Nothing good ever comes of allowing him to hammer the same points or even darker ones.
Ribo. There is enough empirical evidence to believe in both the historical and Biblical Jesus if one so chooses…
You had no answers and you know it.
Your talk is as empty as your heart.
Let this be the last day of feeding the troll.
Night all.
The reality is, you may profess and promote yourself as somehow “transformed” by the gospel and different…but when pressed…you respond like atheists, agnostics and all other Groups…and generally, I’d say Christians* typically respond worse.
How is that? I thought the “spirit” makes you different than the other Groups?
How are godless atheists able to respond, in general, a little better than most Christians* to pressure and disagreements and challenges of their sacred cows?
Your actions speak loudly. That is your true doctrine and your true belief and your true faith…not your mere profession of dogmatic and “orthodox” creeds and doctrines etc.
That has always been the biggest tell of Christianity*…if you want to see the real doctrine and belief…watch the actions, test the beliefs…apply some pressure…then watch the actions. There is your true “faith”….and it ain’t any different and sometimes worse than most Groups out there.
Derek, whatevs, it’s all there in that thread in several responses to you…you just didn’t accept the answers. I addressed your questions in that thread thoroughly…it was you who acted like a troll by continue to deny that i responded multiple times which is empirically verifiable…go read the responses.
Neo, I agree with the historical part…there is a lot more evidence for a historical Jesus “Christus” than many figures that scholars accept as historical literal figures.
The biblical Jesus implies a supernatural resurrection and walking on water and turning water into wine etc…as well as the bible also claiming that egyptian sorcerers and others were able to demonstrate the supernatural…and there is zero evidence of the supernatural (meaning outside of our laws of physics).
Neo, I’m all ears if you have some evidence of the supernatural outside of the bible that I am not aware of.
Derek, are you certain of judgment for your sins? If so, then why do you continue to sin?
You are also stumbling me by your personal attacks, which begs the question that you don’t believe the bible verse about the millstone etc…why do you persist in your personal attack and that pattern of behavior which stumbles me and proves my thesis…if you are certain you will get a millstone around your neck in a literal manner and suffer for your actions?
You are not certain of those verses as you continue to behave in a way that stumbles and you disregard that verse and you don’t accept it as certain.
Christianity behaves in a manner that proves uncertainty in its own claims.
Empirical evidence, Ribs. One example; let’s grant the Gospels were written 50 years after Christ’s death and Paul’s first letters, 30 years. Well, names and dates were given and could have been invalidated and refuted at that time. Other examples include; women as first eyewitnesses, a Monotheistic region being the first affected by Christianity, the conversion of Paul, ect….
The only folks on here who consistently demonstrate the most “Good Jesus” like qualities…which expresses a true belief vs. mere words:
brian and G.
There are some others, but those are two who persuaded me the most b/c of how they respond to things. I started to explore their take on things as more likely true based on what they did, who they are as people, how they respond to things etc. I’ve been watching all of you for many years now. You are all teachers whether you realize it or not.
Here we go.
https://phoenixpreacher.com/?p=17655#comment-78352
Read downwards people and see if RiBo ever answers like I asked of him.
Now, I really gotta get some sleep.
Alex-
How is your prayer life?
I ask because I believe it is the key to knowing God- and something I have always struggled with. It takes great effort for me to speak with God when I don’t believe I am hearing back from Him. But if I discipline myself and make the time to get alone with Him, He does give me much peace and a real sense of knowing He is with me.
Jesus always spent a lot of time in prayer, and sadly, I think it is the downfall of the believer.
Do I pray when I first arise, or do I check my phone?
Sadly, I don’t place the priority on prayer that I ought to.
I was wondering how many also struggle with this and whether they believe that prayer has made a difference. Not asking God for things, but spending time alone talking to Him.
Thanks.
Neo, I disagree that is extant and that any of that is empirical evidence.
Extant means a source outside the bible. Empirical evidence means something tangible from archeology or something we can measure, test, verify through scientific method.
If you were Thomas the apostle, you got empirical evidence…you got to poke the holes in the hands and the side of Jesus (which I hope then that those burned in fires or smashed in car accidents don’t retain their wounds…that’ll look funny in heaven).
RiBo,
This would have made great things you think on your own blog.
It ran everyone off mine.
Like I don’t have enough going on…
Anon. Sorry but that’s typical Evangelical lameness.
Anon, I pray w/o ceasing. I have an ongoing dialogue with “God” if he/it is there. Your Conscience and your Reason is in constant dialogue with the Divine if you truly believe that God exists (and I do believe that God is on the other end of dialogue in some form).
My rants are as much ongoing discussions with “God” as they are with all of you.
Michael, we’ve been over this before, I can’t rant like this on my blog b/c it’s a different type blog, it’s not a theology/philosophy blog which yours is.
But, I did dominate your thread so I’ll bow out and take a few days or more off your blog to let it breath.
Last comment on this thread for me:
“but spending time alone talking to Him”
This is one of those things in christianity that makes no sense. If God is everywhere and sees all and hears all, etc…why is it assumed you have to go in a closet and dial him up on the God Phone to talk to him?
I ditched that nonsense long ago. I assume every thought I have, every word I speak, every rant I make on a blog is talking directly to God himself in whatever form.
RiBo,
Thanks for the huge compliment.
Have a great evening
Neo–Calling prayer “evangelical lameness?
Wasn’t Jesus our model of prayer?
Was He lame?
“I ditched that nonsense long ago. I assume every thought I have, every word I speak, every rant I make on a blog is talking directly to God himself in whatever form.”
I’m speaking about setting aside time to be alone with Him, talk with Him and hear from Him. Listening.
I’m calling it a night.
I just wanted to know from others whether prayer makes a difference in their lives.
RiBo~
Getting alone with God
It’s about expressing value and love on our part
It’s about takin time to seperate ourselves from distractions to focus our attention solely upon God
Your wife may know “everything” -in a sense – about you… However how would she respond if you never took time to be alone to communicate with her , your focus completely upon her…giving her your complete attention … But instead you said to her … Well I’ll talk to you all the time and you can just listen to me as I go about my day..,
you don’t HAVE to spend time alone with our wife… But your relationship would benefit all the more as you take time to do so
In similar fashion with God
You don’t HAVE to go off alone to spend time with God …
But there is something of value and expression of love when you do
And I believe that as one takes time to spend alone with God our relationship is the better for it
Anonymous
I agree with you … I know the difference prayer makes but all too guilty o not praying enough….
It’s usually quite subtle for me
But I do find that prayer does make a huge difference,,.
SisterC
There is nothing to add to what you have said because it is the truth.
Thank you for expressing what I couldn’t. 🙂
There was a quote ;
Gods enemies and Gods children both make the same mistake;
They underestimate the power of prayer
“I just wanted to know from others whether prayer makes a difference in their lives.”
For me, I live in a life full of inspiration, surrounded by people who let me love them, challenge me. I spend every day doing commercial art & my off time doing music. My “prayer” is a conscious and unconscious dialog with God, not so much full of petition as response, gratitude and awe.
Years ago I really took to heart the idea that there is absolutely nowhere I can go away from His presence, and that it’s my own lack of mindfulness and distraction that needs to be delt with.
RiBo has his interesting way of describing it earlier. Yes, I pretty much agree, each and every word spoken is spoken before God, heard by God, cannot be ignored by God.
Anon, I get what Neo is saying in so many words. Listen beyond his words to the heart of it, that The Infinite, Personal God, The God Who Is There is benevolently inescapable.
A friend likes to remind me and others who know him, “God not only loves you, He also ‘likes’ you!”
Peace overflowing to you and anyone else who reads this.
And thanks for your answer about prayer 🙂
“Be still and know that I AM God”
Well.,, I do get the concept of practicing the presence of God ; often attempting to practice that in my life .., as well as praying without ceasing,,.
Praying while I’m gardening, driving
Making decisions,, cooking, cleaning
Etc.,,
But there is something very special about getting alone with God and pouring out my heart in ways I couldn’t do going about the ordinary routines and tasks o life ….
G- You say to “listen beyond his words”. His words said it all. “Evangelical lameness”.
Sorry, I totally missed your question, essentially, “Does prayer make a difference in your life?”
Not really.
Mindfulness makes a difference,
Focus makes a difference.
Quieting, without words, a huge difference.
Stillness, taking in nature, listening to the neighbor kids laugh, my daughter’s cat purr…
All of these things make a difference.
Supplications, lists of cares cast upon him, specific requests? These are less and less important than confidently resting in Him, recalling what I know about Him, His faithfulness, His mischief in the lives of those He walked among, upsetting the/my religious ones who try to box Him in from words others have written about Him or claimed He said.
I’ve abandoned myself to the peace of knowing that He is weaving together each and every moment, caring for me and those in my path.
There you go, at least for the moment…
Mark 16:15-16
King James Version (KJV)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Neo is this just “Evangelical lameness” from Jesus Christ?
His words let you into his churning and beautiful heart which wrestles with God just as did the patriarchs.
Listen beyond
I’m wondering what the KJV quote from Mark has to do with “prayer”?
Anonymous~
“Be still and know that I am God”
Has been one of the essential lessons God has been reiterating over and over with me that past several years
So many things that I found I was prone to get anxious and worked up about,,,, so many times feeling like I had to do something about the situation .,, now…
But in prayer, God says .. (And when I say God says., it is a simple thought that comes to mind)
” be still and know that I God”
And in trusting that … Waiting and resting in Him and in His word and promises… I watch events unfold in ways I could never have dreamt to orchestrate .. In natural yet supernatural ways the answer to prayers are realized…,
sometimes in the urgent
But more often over the course o time
I just want to give clarity to something that RB always tries to muck up (I am not addressing RB – just clearing it up)
When one says that Christians are not transformed, one is missing the whole Jesus story … this is why one who claims such cannot be a Christian.
Christians are transformed … just not in the way that one expressing is looking for. How do you get more transformed than this
John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.”
That my friends is transformation.
Wrong, MLD. That is transition.
One other thing. One cannot straddle the fence – one cannot say, “well, I can’t say for sure that their is a God, we have no proof” and also say “Perhaps Jesus lived and perhaps some of the things he said were good – then go off on some Copy / Paste dissertation about the Historical Jesus and call oneself a Christian. It is not what the Bible says.
The Bible says, even with “all the copies and all the translations” (one person’s dis-qualifier for the Bible;
Romans 10:9-10 ” If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
It’s like Texas Hold ’em – go all in or get out.
I’m sure Jesus doesn’t give a whit about the details and claims, He just hears the heartcries of any and all who wrestle with God, and struggle to follow Him even in their confusion and doubt
Jesus welcomed the fence straddlers all along His earthly ministry, the doubters, those who were honest enough to confess to Him that they needed His help with their unbelief.
Neo – not only is that transformation – but that IS the 1st resurrection.
You fall into that evangelical quagmire of make sanctification a totally separate entity from justification. Remember that New Creation stuff?
Neo,
If you’re around tomorrow at 7pm, I’d love to see you.
Peace
( |o )====:::
I think if you check it out, Jesus had nothing good to say to the folks who have made satan their research assistant.
…at the gathering (as I won’t be here)
Jesus welcomed all because he showed Himself to be mightier than the adversary.
Have a night, of your own making.
I’ll be back on my feet shortly, G. Been down and out for a couple months (health).
All I know is this, both Justification and Sanctification are thru Grace alone. If I attain either of them, it’s Grace. If I fail to meet their requirements, there is Grace. Nothing left for me to do, to prove, to say. Wow, I feel like I’m preaching. Must be feeling better.
Neo,
We will think of you tonight and tomorrow night, and thank God for you and ask Him to make His presence known to you in a way that somehow gives you rest, encouragement, strength and hope.
Beautiful prayer, G. Thanks so much.
I am firmly outside the camp, MLD, that preaches Justification through Grace and Sanctification by “trying really hard”. 🙂
I agree with MLD that you can not go to Satan (if there is a Satan) asking for supernatural signs in order to prove that miracles are done by God.
Prayer has always troubled me, almost since day one it was stressed to me that, first Im selfish and God hates me, every single thing I do has some tainted by some motive, even if I dont know about it that turns it into straw what will burn in the end. One prays because that is what is required and you do it, sort of like a robot. God loves Jesus and He sees Jesus when he looks at me, but me, God hates all my imperfections, the dyslexia I struggle with, the fact that as a little kid I was stupid and got burned and survived thus costing my family money. Yes that is how the faith has made me feel. I have tried so hard to hate myself enough. Prayer often gave me a sense of peace, but that is emotionalism, so it is not of God because our emotions are so twisted and vile because of what horrid sinners we are.
I do spend time in prayer, I have no expectation that it will be heard or answered as that would be way too obtuse. I will agree what I am saying is not “reality”, it is how I view it at times when I am frustrated so it taints my view. If that makes any sense.
Sure, Jesus taught us to pray….in a minute or less. 🙂
Perhaps some belong to Christians for Satan. 😉
“The fewer the words, the better the prayer”. Martin Luther.
Love ya, Neo, hang in there
When I struggle with “what” to pray, I pray the Lord’s Prayer…”Our Father……” And NO, it is not a “rote” prayer, with no meaning to me; it is words of life spoken by our Lord and I don’t see that I can improve upon them. However, I will say that by the time I have spoken or “sighed” those words, He has whispered renewed hope into me and I most often continue to pray.
I was taught, actually it was thrusted down my throat with a great vengeance that the Lord’s Prayer (our Father) was way too Catholic, thus Satanic on its face. I have had people rebuke me for saying the our Father, God does not hear repetitious prayer and will hold in contempt those that pray such prayers. I always found that rather strange to be honest.
” I always found that rather strange to be honest.” And rightly so, Brian.
Blessings to you, my friend.
Anyone out there recommend a good blog to fellowship with other Christians? This used to b such a place but now it is dominated by an unbeliever who spews nonsense all day. The bible warns us against such folk and I can’t be encouraged enlightened or exhorted any longer here. Michael knows the problem and refuses to deal with it. There is no benefit whatsoever for one trying to walk daily with Jesus to coming here and reading atheistic tripe all day long
I like the folk here
The nonsense that is spewed only reinforces my convictions!
I agree with BD, I like the folk here, even MLD!
even me?
Phoenix Preacher must be doing it’s job for the kingdom – why else would satan enter the room yesterday?
Here you go, Mark…everyone at this link will agree with you and they allow no one who thinks differently to trouble you.
http://calvarychapel.com
To have a conversation about Satan is not equal to him “entering the room”. What does that even mean.
1/2 the time I think RB is just saying things because he is bored, or to ramp up the number of comments on here to get the SEO numbers up.
I don’t take him that seriously.
London,
The number of comments does not affect my numbers.
I don’t take people who tell racial or polish jokes seriously either – but some do.
His was not a ‘conversation’ about satan – he was pitting satan against God. The same old thing – “hey Christians, satan is not real” (but half the time he says God and Jesus are not real also – so perhaps you have a point.)
He turns satan into a metaphor for easy Christian consumption.
Michael we aren’t talking about someone who simply disagrees. You know it is the same repetitive drivel over and over. You know it is intended to inflame and infuriate. U know there is no intent to dialog or listen to reason. And u know it is a dominating presence that has driven off good people. Yet u continue to indulge this one at the counsel of the rest of us
“Expense” of the rest of us
Mark,
I no longer have the time or energy to police this place 24/7.
You offered no comments on this thread except to criticize me, which is your usual contribution to the blog.
You could have, at any time, started a conversation about one of the points I wrote about.
You didn’t.
I understand the frustration that many feel about his occasional domination of the blog.
You can;
a. ignore him
b. start another conversation
c. just read at calvarychapel.com
I interceded when I was able and he chose to walk away for awhile.
All this does is create more strife and invite more of the same.
Ok then boredom it is 🙂
It’s funny cause i don’t think I believe in Satan, and most certainly I don’t believe in little imp demons running around taunting people, but I do know that Christians, by definition, don’t go running to them looking for tricks to prove the existence of God
I believe in the reality of Satan and a demonic host.
Few things am I more sure of.
It’s funny cause i don’t think I believe in Satan,
Well I don’t believe in satan either … but I do believe there is a satan.
London, that is a misrepresentation of my position (not surprisingly). I am not running to anyone, just studying up on all the different Groups who claim “supernatural” manifestations…and so far, all claims are bogus and unproven…which begs the question about whether or not there are manifestations that occur outside of our laws of physics in this dimension. There is certainly no tangible evidence of such…just stories and anecdotes…nothing demonstrable from any Group.
That’s just the facts based on the data we have to date.
I could be proven wrong if someone walks on water or turns water into wine or levitates or something that isn’t an illusion and parlor trick.
Michael, it is merely part of your human psyche and nature…the bad part that we must all fight against
As I began to read the comments just now, I noticed ALOT of “RiBo” comments. Then I counted…54 out of 100. He is over .500 in plate appearances. This dude is a commenting machine. Like a serial commentator. Like a guy who needs to completely dominate at all times. Scary behavior.
It’s one thing for christians to claim “Cessation!” of the holy spirit and supernatural manifestations to explain away why we don’t see legit supernatural miracles today…quite another to claim all the other Groups caught the Cessation cold as well.
All the other Groups claimed supernatural manifestations prior to science and reason discovering their trickery….and now all the sudden no miracles, no real levitation, no real examples of stuff that violates our laws of physics can be conjured by anyone outside of Christianity…
Either “god” and the “devil” are in some sort of conspiracy together to hide the supernatural…or it never existed other than in mankind’s imagination and was exaggeration and tricks.
RiBo,
Not doing this again today.
Sorry, he’s up to 56 now….A new set of waves is coming…he is set to pass DiMaggio’s mark…
Just this thread Dodger Dog. I haven’t commented on most of the threads on here recently. There was something Michael commented on that sparked a line of thought that takes a while to discuss and explain. Don’t be afraid of thorough discussion.
OK, Michael. have a good day. It is amazing the amount of personal attack you allow…and then when I do it in kind…different standard. Just a thought.
Dodger Dog, he likes to think he knows what he is talking about and over talks all the time…..Scary behavior is right….and this is just one of the many threads he has dominated.
“Discussion” is a two way deal.
You are a “one-way, my way or the highway” kind of fella.
As a guy who has been here for about 8-9 years, you are not being truthful to the rest of the class when you say “it’s just this thread.”
I maybe deaf, but I am not blind. 🙂
Mark
I’m surprised that you are allowing one person to “run you off” … Why would you allow what you think is evil/bad/ innappropriate … To interrupt your participation in the good …. Better yet… Incredible Christian fellowship and dialogue that takes place here?
hi Sis,
RiBo,
Your posts are thought provoking, very revealing of the personal journey you’re on, and I daily pray when I see your posts that you will remain open to and embrace Jesus from The4Gospels, and have a fulfilling and fruitful life.
Now go sell something! 😉
RiBo,
The reality is, as I have said many times in the past, that the majority of my readers are conservative Christians with no interest in your opinions.
Yesterday, this thread was killed deader than a doornail by the flood of comments from you.
That upsets me…I don’t have enough time to write, let alone police the place.
I don’t believe it’s personal…you would be accepted similarly on a site dedicated to gun control…your views are not the views of those who would construct and frequent such a site and your comments would provoke a strong response.
The reverse would also be true.
I allow many different views here…but they need to be expressed with humility and moderation or the whole community suffers.
Hi dusty!!!
Hope you are getting good rest
And good medical attention for your broken foot!
which begs the question about whether or not there are “manifestations that occur outside of our laws of physics in this dimension. There is certainly no tangible evidence of such”
if something is outside the laws of physics of this dimension, how can there be tangible evidence? Tangible would require it be in this dimension.
The very definition of tangible is that it is perceivable by touch.
We can only touch what is in this dimension. Thus, tangible evidence is limited to this dimension.
I’m sure you’ll come back and say you meant something other than what you said.
#104 “Last comment on this thread for me:…”
Yeah, right.
I like #6. This is accomplished in what many call the social gospel. Going out and loving the unloved whether it be poor disenfranchised or criminals or outcasts or illegals or gay or mentally I’ll. the list goes on. Show them you care about them. Tell them God loves them. Get to know them. Let them trust you. Build a relationship. That may open doors to share the Gospel. I’m finding that method challenging but fulfilling.
Dodger Weiner said, “you are not being truthful to the rest of the class when you say “it’s just this thread.””
Yes, my statement was truthful and accurate, there is tangible proof:
I specifically stated: “Just this thread Dodger Dog. I haven’t commented on most of the threads on here recently.”
10 threads recently: Starting from the bottom thread on up: 10. Links: Zero comments. 9. Free Saeed: Zero comments. 8. Common Ground: 6 comments out of 70 total. 7. Loose Ends: 4 comments out of 69 total. 6. TGIF: 3 out of 217 total comments. 5. Open Blogging: Zero comments. 4. Prayer and Praise: Zero comments. 3. Things I Think: One thread, like I stated, with a lot of comments. 2. Links: One comment out of 35 total. 1. Pastor Saeed Beaten: One comment.
As usual, many of you deal in exaggeration and myth and untruth.
The facts are there. There is no excuse for your misrepresentation and smear…but you won’t retract it b/c you are not intellectually honest even in the face of hard cold evidence.
Mark
You make it sound like we do all those things because they are a target and our whole intent is to share the gospel. Why don’t we care about people because they are people just like us? Yeah I know, if we care about people we will share the gospel, but it just doesn’t seem like that is our real intentions.
Sometimes it makes me feel like being part of some sort of multi-level market scheme.
Dusty, the only scary thing is how you guys respond and the exaggerations and untruths you cling to. It’s why Christians* in general are losing ground and not trusted to be honest brokers and why evangelicalism in general is becoming less influential.
Michael, you are the moderator and host…was my statement accurate or not? Was Dodger Dogs statement accurate or not?
A quick count: 59 out of 181….make that 60
Either that or some of you are in a class of stupid that requires some sort of help…but I don’t believe you are that stupid. It is your blind bias and bad attitude and pride that would cause you to make such an untruthful statement when the facts show I have only over-commented on one thread out of 10 recently…as I stated clearly…to which I was called a liar.
Many of you example how easy it is for evangelicals to dismiss facts and cling to a lie…like Young Earth and other examples. It’s who you are and why you are not trusted to be honest.
Nonnie, yes, one thread out of 10 as I stated.
RiBo,
You have a history of dominating threads recent or not.
People don’t enjoy those threads.
This one was DOA as soon as I wrote it.
You have a venue to express your opinions where they will be received more openly…as I said your beliefs about Christianity are not going to receive much applause here nor should they be excepted to.
You’re entitled to your opinions…and people are entitled not to want to read them on a theologically conservatively oriented blog.
Bob said, “Sometimes it makes me feel like being part of some sort of multi-level market scheme.”
Yes, that is a good way to describe the dynamic in general IMO.
Michael, true or not true. You guys are so dishonest.
MIchael said, “You have a history of dominating threads recent or not.”
You asked me not to dominate every thread. I don’t nearly dominate every thread. 1 out of 10 is not dominating “every thread”
The earth is round.
You guys are ridiculously untruthful and exaggerate greatly.
RiBo,
You have not recently been as dominant.
Your history precedes you, however.
It’s not that complicated.
RiBo,
There is no good reason why you should dominate ANY thread.
It takes away from everyone else.
Your views are not popular here, you know that, yet you want to force people to engage with them anyway.
It’s senseless.
I have real life to deal with so this is done now.
Those folks stated a lie and then called my accurate statement a lie. If you don’t have the character to call it like it is, then that’s a reflection of you.
keep waiting for Michael to yell
ENOUGH!!! 😎
It is perceived I dominate threads just by my mere presence, whether it’s 3 comments or 300…b/c most aren’t able to hang with regards to critical thinking. That’s more a reflection on their disability than it is on my truly dominating.
The numbers don’t lie. I rarely over-comment on a thread any longer.
“Either that or some of you are in a class of stupid”
Which you you talking about? I love it when you comment a lot – takes the heat off me. 🙂
But I’m not rank enough to go back and count all my comments on 10 threads to prove a point..
I do cop to dominating with regards to critical thinking…I have very little competition in that regard LOL.
It’s a reflection that we don’t want to hear it anymore.
As I’ve tried to graciously point out you would receive the same reception as a pro gun person on a gun control site.
I don’t have time or energy to devote to this.
Mary had a little lamb. little lamb, little lamb, Mary had a little lamb his fleece was white as snow.
never new that song/poem was about Jesus……
Michael, I comment on many blogs and many atheist sites and many political sites…and I express a lot of contrary views there as well…and by far, this “community” is the most toxic and most vile in the responses…and exaggerates and sometimes outright misrepresents the facts the most.
…and you are the supposed Christians* LOL.
No such thing as being “transformed” after being saved. You guys prove it in spades.
I go see the orthopedic doc in the morning. don’t know if they will do surgery or just cast it…but I am in lots of pain. the good part is it is only one bone. the unlucky part is that bone is twisted and a bit shattered.
ever notice how conceded some people are…I know, I’m slow to get it sometimes, but man it shows in neon now…now I get it.
Dusty,
That sounds like surgery…
My little misty is 24 now and not so little. she is working as a high school teacher in a Christian school teaching sign language. next year she will teach sign language in several grades and teach about photography. they also hired her to take the class pics and yearbook picks. So, she is doing pretty well.
“…and by far, this “community” is the most toxic and most vile in the responses…”:
And yet here you are.
Michael I was hoping for the cast. 🙁 sigh….now Im nervous..
RiBo,
If you find the place toxic and vile then you need to move on.
I don’t read or engage with sites that offend me…life is too short.
My life is too busy and full of too much difficulty right now to have any here at all.
I simply can’t allow it right now…simply can’t take away from truly important things.
MLD said, “And yet here you are.”
I never back down from a challenge…the more vile, the more personal attack…the more resolved 😉
Closing the thread.