Trumps Time Machine

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150 Responses

  1. Xenia says:

    Trump is holding the country hostage. Tonight he will broadcast his ransom demands.

  2. Em says:

    Xenia, it is okay. The Democrats are already warning the nation that the speech is nothing but lies, made up statistics. ?

    And Pelosi has the power to chop off his head and he won’t even know he is bleeding according to her daughter… LOL

  3. Jean says:

    A timely and thought provoking article.

    Michael, in a recent article you said: “The great divide in our country is not between the left and right or between the pious and the sinner…it’s between our definitions of right and wrong…or the fact that we’re not allowed to define either..”

    There’s a lot of truth in that statement.

    I would like to add to offer the source of another divide: We have lost the willingness to trust one another. Trust is an attribute of love, so its lack shows that love has grown quite cold in our nation. By definition, love “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

    Also, by definition, love is often deceived. Why? Because human beings err or are dishonest. Yet, God knows that and asks us to bear and endure in love nonetheless.

    But, today, as we fight over our own definitions of truth, we also are taught to give no no one the benefit of the doubt, trust no one, love no one, except maybe a very, very small circle. And in that case, it’s hard to have a country and government that works effectively and a people who live in peace with one another. Christians should be a beacon of love in our country.

    The Constitution grants the power of the purse to the Congress. Yet, 800,000 federal workers, who serve us (and most of the very well), are either furloughed or are working without pay, because the President isn’t getting his way. Meanwhile, he is promoting division among those he is sworn to serve, hurting many families and is teaching the young people of this country that it’s okay to lie in order to achieve an objective.

    Trump is a master at making anyone who disagrees with him an enemy, literally an enemy, and not just of him, but of our country. He wants to be the lodestar of truth and patriotism for our nation. Anyone who disagrees with him, whether a politician or the press, becomes an enemy of the state.

  4. Em says:

    Trump is the master of making anyone who disagrees with him the enemy? Guess Jean hasn’t spent much time in academia, the corporate world, the political world or most of today’s churches…. ?

  5. Dan from Georgia says:


    Also, according to some/many in the Pentacostal church, you are an enemy of God if you disagree with Trump, because “he’s annointed by God” – this according to what I learned by spending the worst of two months on

  6. Jean says:

    Dan, I don’t doubt that. To your knowledge, has Trump, as a good Christian, disavowed and urged the Pentacostals not to infer his infallibility? In the interest of avoiding idolatry, of course.

  7. Dan from Georgia says:


    I don’t think he has (in all seriousness). Remember he has Paula White as one of his counselors. As an additional note…there are those out there who don’t think you can be a Christian if you didn’t vote for Donald Trump.

  8. Truth Lover says:

    Sorry folks, but there IS a crisis at our borders. It’s been going on for way too long and has escalated to a crisis point. I personally don’t want to fund illegals coming over to my border state and getting free hand outs. And I don’t feel safe living in a Sanctuary State. BUILD THE WALL!

  9. Outside T. Fold says:


  10. Jim says:

    Thanks, TL, finally some TRUTH here!

  11. Jim says:

    Thanks TL, finally some TRUTH here!

  12. Michael says:

    On what basis do you believe there is a crisis on the border?
    What information have you gathered and where have you gathered it that leads you to believe this?

    We know from government stats that the Mexican migration has been in reverse since 2012.
    Our own government think tanks prefer technology and boots on the ground to a wall.
    Drugs, migrants, and evil doers will continue coming the way they usually do…through the ports and airports.

    We may see a small increase in drug prices, and that may be a crisis for some.

    There is a massive humanitarian crisis on the border, but we helped create that…

  13. Michael says:


    You will need a new monicker…we already have a Jim.

  14. Ruth says:

    This may seem off topic, but I don’t think so.
    I live in Seattle area. Had to drive in the city today, all over the place tents, tents, tents. Garbage everywhere.
    Tacoma (city near Seattle) same thing.
    I don’t understand why the most pressing problem we are dealing with as a country are not the homeless, and people living on the street.

  15. Michael says:


    We have a similar issue in Southern Oregon.
    The issue doesn’t excite voters, so it doesn’t get a lot of play…

  16. Ruth says:

    I don’t understand how it doesn’t excite voters. Wherever someone falls on the right left line, this is a massive concern. Could you explain this in more detail?

  17. Michael says:


    It should be a massive concern, but we live in a strange age.
    It doesn’t excite voters because it doesn’t involve creating and attempting to defeat enemies on “the other side”.
    Issues like homelessness and health care require thought, analysis, and a desire to make real change.
    If it can’t be framed in apocalyptic terms, most aren’t interested…

  18. Jerod says:

    Posing a question most here will amount to my support of Trump personally or my unwavering faith in everything his brand stands for

    Why do drug dealers and gang members have the same border agenda and that Democrats and leftists have?

    Somebody should make them explain that.

  19. Jerod says:

    Truth lover,
    in reality illegal immigration has declined over the past four years or so.

    Like I told my students today, perhaps we should resume talking with each other as if we know everybody desires good for the other.

  20. Michael says:


    Drug dealers and gang members don’t care one way or another…the market says they will find a way.
    I don’t know if I qualify as a “leftist”…but having studied the matter intensely for over a decade i am all for border security and very much against a wall.

  21. Michael says:

    The vast majority of the drug trade flies over or drives through…I find it odd that people really believe that 60 billion in dope is packed by people across the desert…it’s funny, actually.

  22. Truth Lover says:

    Our government experts are saying there IS a crisis. Past Presidents, ICE, border agents, Homeland Security, our President, Vice President and now even Mexico say so. Plus, we can see it with our own eyes! No one will convince me otherwise with rhetoric. Check out this first video from 4 years ago when Obama was President reported by a liberal news station when it was safe to report the truth on this issue. Present day, it’s only gotten worse. The second video is current.

  23. Jerod says:

    I understand and appreciate your knowledge on the border issues. But the best businessman in the drug trafficking trade, I believe, care deeply about any imposition to trade traffic. Moreover the many Latinos and Hispanics I have regular contact with are often in favor of Trump’s border policy.

    I was actually left of their opinions today, it was kinda funny.

    You and I both have pointed out that walls keep people in much easier than out.

    interesting read:

    everyone should remember that we are well hated, so to speak, for His name’s sake.

    Sorry to be the one to fall prey to Godwin’s law.

  24. Michael says:


    They don’t care.
    The systems they have used for the last 40 years will still run exactly the same way.

  25. Ruth says:


    Thank you for your response. I’m trying to understand, but I think I’m out of my depth in the world I live in.

  26. Steve says:

    One could surmise that this is the result of building church buildings and nice houses instead of pouring our treasure into missions.
    OTOH Brazil has been evangelized for decades with great fruit and evangelicals are a great power there.
    The question is how this blog reacts to that?
    With rejoicing for success and men’s souls, or skepticism and negativity.
    One would then fairly ask if this blog is about souls or promoting socialism.

  27. Michael says:


    Actually it makes this one wonder again why so many Christians think in arbitrary, binary categories.
    Calvin started “evangelizing” Brazil in about 1560.
    Much of what I’ve read about Brazilian evangelicalism sounds like it came right out of Charisma magazine.
    I’m at a loss as to when I’ve ever promoted “socialism” or even discussed it, but that’s par for the course.

  28. Steve says:

    The only real cure for what ails some folk is a machine that will take us backward to the time when good white folks bore children instead of adopting pets, minorities and women stayed in their lanes, and the churches we filled said amen.
    This is little different from saying Trump supporters have ten teeth or are deplorables.
    And not even remotely true of course.
    The leader of Hispanic evangelicals in America, Rev Samuel Rodriguez says we must have border security. Does he only have ten teeth?
    I haven’t heard your suggestions for border security as enough fentanyl has been stopped to kill every human in America.
    But without any security suggestions from you it would seem you are closer to George Soros on this one issue. But that’s not socialism of course.

  29. Michael says:


    You really need to get out more.
    I said nothing about deplorable or toothless hillbillies…I am saying that there is a real fear of changing demographics and mores…things that won’t be changing “back” to some idyllic time.
    We all believe in border security.
    That is not synonymous with a wall.
    Fentanyl comes from China…and arrives through the mail predominately.
    I don’t think I’ve ever read a single thing Soros ever wrote…but in your weird little world of binaries I’m sure he’s a big player.

  30. Michael says:

    If you want real “security” stop taking about a worthless wall and start addressing the massive drug market that creates the crime in the first place.
    Address the economic and political issues that drive migration…some of which this country created.
    Stop taking in all the political propaganda from both sides of a broken government and go read what the people living, working, teaching, and ministering on the border and south and hear what they say.

    This isn’t a bulls… game between opposing American politicos…it’s real people struggling to survive.

  31. Michael says:

    From an engineer…

    “To recap: I’m a licensed structural and civil engineer with a MS in structural engineering from the top program in the nation and over a decade of experience on high-performance projects, and particularly of cleaning up design disasters where the factors weren’t properly accounted for, and I’m an adjunct professor of structural analysis and design at UH-Downtown. I have previously been deposed as an expert witness in matters regarding proper construction of walls and the various factors associated therein, and my testimony has passed Daubert.

    Am I a wall expert? I am. I am literally a court-accepted expert on walls.

    Structurally and civil engineering-wise, the border wall is not a feasible project. Trump did not hire engineers to design the thing. He solicited bids from contractors, not engineers. This means it’s not been designed by professionals. It’s a disaster of numerous types waiting to happen.

    What disasters?

    Off the top of my head…

    1) It will mess with our ability to drain land in flash flooding. Anything impeding the ability of water to get where it needs to go (doesn’t matter if there are holes in the wall or whatever) is going to dramatically increase the risk of flooding.
    2) Messes with all kind of stuff ecologically. For all other projects, we have to do an Environmental Site Assessment, which is arduous. They’re either planning to circumvent all this, or they haven’t accounted for it yet, because that’s part of the design process, and this thing hasn’t been designed.
    3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or don’t actually do the job. This article explains more:…/…/amp/17599.html
    And so on.

    The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing.…/Bernstein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.…

    It does not account for rework, complexities beyond the prototype design, factors to prevent flood and environmental hazard creation, engineering redesign… It’s going to be higher than $50bn. The contractors will hit the government with near CONSTANT change orders. “Cost overrun” will be the name of the game. It will not be completed in Trump’s lifetime.

    I’m a structural forensicist, which means I’m called in when things go wrong. This is a project that WILL go wrong. When projects go wrong, the original estimates are just *obliterated*. And when that happens, good luck getting it fixed, because there aren’t that many forensicists out there to right the ship, particularly not that are willing to work on a border wall project— a large quotient of us are immigrants, and besides, we can’t afford to bid on jobs that are this political. We’re small firms, and we’re already busy, and we don’t gamble our reputations on political footballs. So you’d end up with a revolving door of contractors making a giant, uncoordinated muddle of things, and it’d generally be a mess. Good money after bad. The GAO agrees with me.

    And it won’t be effective. I could, right now, purchase a 32 foot extension ladder and weld a cheap custom saddle for the top of the proposed wall so that I can get over it. I don’t know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasn’t anybody with any engineering imagination.

    Another thing: we are not far from the day where inexpensive drones will be able to pick up and carry someone. This will happen in the next ten years, and it’s folly to think that the coyotes who ferry people over the border won’t purchase or create them. They’re low enough, quiet enough, and small enough to quickly zip people over any wall we could build undetected with our current monitoring setup.

    Let’s have border security, by all means, but let’s be smart about it. This is not smart. It’s not effective. It’s NOT cheap. The returns will be diminishing as technology advances, too. This is a ridiculous idea that will never be successfully executed and, as such, would be a monumental waste of money.”

  32. Truth Lover says:

    Oh brother! A wall is a reasonable deterrent. A starting point. The more difficult we can make it for people to cross over our border the more it will deter them, slow them down, and the more we can catch them. It’s a NO BRAINER.

  33. Michael says:

    I agree it’s a no brainer…but not the same way you do.
    Hundreds of migrants die in the desert every year trying to get here…but that’s not a deterrent.
    Perhaps we need to think more deeply about these issues…

  34. Michael says:

    We know that most drugs and human trafficking come through the ports of entry.
    Why doesn’t anyone want to address that?
    Because theses things don’t help win elections and we prefer no brainer problems and matching solutions…

  35. Jean says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the lack of attention given to the ports of entry (land and sea) regarding human trafficking and especially drugs has to do with the business lobby, which prioritizes cost and speed.

  36. directambiguity says:

    Both Democrats and republicans want to address hardening the ports of entry, the Republicans are saying that’s not enough. Trump wants a wall (barrier) and to expedite asylum determination… And why not address all immigration issues i.e. DACA, our current laws, humanitarian issues… Nothing we come up with will be perfect and we can’t fix the other countries but we can come up with something better. I think the Democrats won’t come to the table because Trump is demanding a wall and they believe if he gets it barring an economic collapse he wins 2020.

    Is there a link to that engineer quote?

  37. Truth Lover says:

    EXACTLY! It’s all a political game for a power grab. Our President DOES want to change the immigration laws as well. There’s a lot of things that need to be changed. But we have to start somewhere!

  38. Michael says:


    You are correct.
    Thousands of vehicles and millions of dollars in commerce go through both ways every day.

  39. Michael says:

    In 1985, Reagan virtually shut down the border by searching every vehicle for a week…looking for the killers of DEA agent Kiki Camerena.
    It became an international incident quickly because of its effect on commerce.
    So when Trump says he’ll shut down the border, shake your head at the sheer ignorance and lack of historical knowledge the man has.
    Turns out that we knew who and where Kiki was murdered…the CIA recorded the whole tortuous three days…didn’t share that with the President…

  40. Kevin H says:

    Of course it’s a no brainer to build the wall. It should be so easy to trust our government to competently and efficiently build a wall and disregard the many experts on wall building who say there will be all kinds of detrimental effects and it will end up costing far, far more money than what is being stated.

    Of course it’s a no brainer. Our government knows of and apprehends thousands of known or suspected terrorists trying to cross our borders. Just because they just about all happen at airports and the number of incidents at our southern border are next to negligible this should not stop us from insisting on a wall. Better to deceive about the numbers. And better to cut off people’s paychecks who then no longer show up to work to keep us secure at our airports.

    Of course it’s a no brainer. We’ve got to stop all that drug trafficking and the money it costs us that Trump told us about last night. Who cares if almost all the drug trafficking happens through ports of entry. We must not let facts get in the way of getting the wall.

    Of course it’s a no brainer. We have all those Americans being killed by illegal aliens. Who cares if many studies show that serious crime committed by illegal aliens is no worse if not even better than American citizens. We must focus our ire on the criminals who are illegal and build that wall.

    Of course it’s a no brainer. We keep making it harder and harder for those to claim asylum at our southern border and agitate them on top of it. Now that we’ve given them even more incentive to try to cross illegally, we’ve got to build that wall.

    Of course it’s a no brainer. We don’t need to fill all those jobs that us Americans won’t work. Better to let those American farmers and agricultural businesses and other businesses and industries suffer. And better to let Social Security collapse as we will no longer collect Social Security taxes from illegals who will never get it back. It’s all worth it for the wall. It’s a no brainer.

  41. Em says:

    I think building barricades (above and below ground) in areas of easy crossing is doable and makes sense – combined with human and electronic surveillance and why not slow down ports of entry? Every truck, every container gets x-rayed and sniffed ….
    Now if we could just mine the border… JOKING! ?

  42. Michael says:

    Well done, Kevin!

  43. Michael says:

    “Every truck, every container gets x-rayed and sniffed ….”

    Reagan, 1985, Camarena…

  44. Jean says:

    Could it be that evidence based policy making requires an attention span and sincere curiosity?

  45. Em says:

    “Government doesn’t solve problems, it subsidizes them.” R. Reagan LOL

  46. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    In spite of the popular opinion here, walls are pretty simple. I don’t know how it is where you all live but when I lived in California there were thousands of miles of 20-30 foot high freeway sound walls. I never saw anyone climb over one, I never saw one misdirect a flash flood and I never saw one fall down, and we are talking earthquake country.

    As to the effectiveness of walls, I can’t speak to much to that. However, not a single prisoner in modern day escapes by scaling the prison wall, they find other ways.
    Drugs, weapons and other contraband all come in through the prison ‘port of entry’s (front door) by family visitors and prison employees. Prisoners still escape, and the contraband arrives and yet we still build walls around prisons.

  47. Duane Arnold says:

    Somehow the analogy of a prison leaves somewhat to be desired…?

  48. Jerod says:

    As far as cost, it’s a given that any subsidized road, railroad, ship, plane, etc, costs three times the stated cost and takes three times the time to complete. And still has problems.

    As to MLD and the prison analogy, yeah, it is like a prison is being built around us.

  49. Em says:

    I am trying to visualize how drugs come in on commercial aircraft…. Fed ex?
    I do recall long years ago a friend bought a twin engine cessna that had a trap door… evidently it had been used to do air drops of drugs before the plane landed at a U.S. airfield ..?..

  50. bob1 says:

    If they’re gonna build a wall, they need to add a moat and alligators.

  51. Michael says:

    I had to pull over and answer the aircraft question…Amado Carrillo was flying fully loaded 747s over the border in the 80’s and 90’s. He also trucked it over through regular ports.
    In a multi billion dollar industry it’s not that hard to move product…

  52. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Its funny how political correctness makes you zero in on the prison walls and ignore my sound barrier walls which completely eliminate the engineers point.

  53. Em says:

    I heard – grapevine – that our military cargo planes transported stuff in from Mexico a while back, now that i think on it…
    Money does find ways
    Thanks, Michael

  54. Jerod says:

    On the other hand, the efficacy of physical barriers cannot be argued from an application perspective.

    Btw, the last freeway migrant crossing sign near my old house in San Ysidro was stolen, lol. Nice quote from somebody who isn’t a technocrat –

    “California Highway Patrol Sgt. Dan Kyle said that officers who worked during the years before the fences were added recalled responding weekly to fatal collisions between cars and immigrants on the freeway in San Ysidro.”

  55. Jerod says:

    Wasn’t that Herman Cain?

  56. Babylon's Dread says:

    Anyone remember Jimmy Carter and Ronald Regan debating illegal immigration? Anyone remember seeing and hearing various candidates and various party affiliates arguing exactly the opposite of what they are arguing now? Anyone realize that the politicians have actually done very little to ameliorate the problems after campaigning full force about it over and over again?

    The linkathon link that told us clergy were 7th or 8th on the list of respected professions had congress ranked LAST on the list 8% respect.

    Our politicians care about elections not solutions. They play the odds every two years. They manipulate, obfuscate, lie and set up straw men. We just happen to have a president who made it his ONE issue and he cannot back down at a point when he has played the fool so publicly for so long.

    He cannot successfully campaign without the ‘promise’ of a wall that will never be finished. Broken border, eventually the country will break and the immigration problem will abate.

  57. Babylon's Dread says:

    I have thought for a long time that the LORD has sent confusion into the camp of the Americans. Like every empire that deifies itself we must be dashed to pieces by the little stone.

  58. Michael says:

    BD just nailed it…

  59. Jean says:

    What Trump needs to come to grips with is that being the President of the U.S. is different from being President of the Trump Organization. He is not a dictator. Congress has the power of the purse, not the President. If he wants to make a deal, then he needs to put something on the table that the Democrats want (which Trump has said he also wants): a path to citizenship for the children of illegal aliens brought here when they were minors. I am confident there is a deal to be had there.

  60. Michael says:

    When I was a kid our school principle tried to build a house on a hill that we all knew would come sliding down some day.
    We called the place “Hale’s Folly”.
    Most of us on my side would trade a DACA deal for “Trump’s Folly”…

  61. Jean says:


  62. Jean says:

    The best deals are the ones that are win-win.

  63. Em says:

    So much to think on here, even if it is tangental …
    Pastor Dread’s 3:34 made me think of the good Samaritan – he had the wherewithal to take care of the assault victim… what if he hadn’t? And, as i look out the window at the driving snow, would the admonition to give both your coat and cloak to the one demanding your coat apply in winter in the PNW? And wasn’t it dear Peter who said to the crippled beggar, “silver and gold have i none, but get up and walk!’ …?… Does Christian charity and common sense ever agree?

  64. Jerod says:

    BD @ 3:34
    Whatever one thinks if his personality, could it be possible we are witnessing what it looks like when a layman President tries to solve problems at the political level? Maybe… he is trying to end the game of political football, perhaps?

  65. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    You guys are funny. Schumer took DACA off the table last year and said he would not negotiate it for the wall.
    The government can be opened tomorrow for the meger cost of $5 billion which is a drop in the bucket (government spending bucket). Look, a month ago we sent $10 billion down a rat hole in Central America that will never arrive to those who need it.
    Last week, the Dems passed a foreign aide package totalling $54 billion – our money to others. $5 billion is nothing — but hate for Trump is.

  66. Michael says:


    I don’t concern myself with partisan politics…I think we have a vast vacuum of leadership, period.
    Trump scares me because he’s neither competent, nor desires to be.

    If he’s such a master negotiator, then what Jean and I suggested should be low hanging fruit…

  67. Jean says:

    “Does Christian charity and common sense ever agree?”

    Actually, no it doesn’t.

    Christian charity (KJV; “love” in the ESV) believes all things, bears all things, and endures all things. How’s that for common sense?

    Thank God for our souls that God’s agapao for us was not rooted in common sense.

  68. john m says:

    The vast waters that separate Europe and America didn’t stop them from coming to America when the world was flat.

  69. Em says:

    Unfortunately to be politically adept, one must either compromise one’s integrity or be steeped in evil – a sociopath?
    Politics really is a dirty word… has no similarity to honest or reasonable….
    Better than a dictatorship? Perhaps,yes, but in a way isn’t it a clumsy form of dictatorial governance? DUnno

    MLD’s monetary facts are something else i’ll have to ponder….

    Jean, then when it is 20 degrees and someone demands my coat and my cloak i give them up and go into hypothermia on my way home? Maybe even serious frostbite? Uhhh, not convinced, sorry… Guess i’ll never be a holy Lutheran popsicle. ?

  70. Jean says:

    Mock the Word, if that’s your thing. And I never mentioned any denomination.

  71. Jean says:

    “Unfortunately to be politically adept, one must either compromise one’s integrity or be steeped in evil – a sociopath?”

    I don’t buy this worn out Trump apology either.

  72. Michael says:


    I do believe that one can combine Christian charity and common sense.
    If one does not care for themselves,then they will be unable to care for their neighbor.

  73. Em says:

    Jean, your faith is Lutheran, i assume your view of Scripture is also… no worries, tho… So far God hasn’t put me to a test like that

    @5:44 gee, i didn’t know Trump and i were in agreement… He must be smart, after all. ? LOL

  74. Michael says:


    Please stop with the “I didn’t mention a denom” stuff that MLD started.

    We all know that whenever either of you speak theologically, it’s straight from the Book of Concord.
    It doesn’t need to be stated…it’s something we’ve all learned to live with…

  75. Em says:

    Thank you, Michael…
    My daughter is waiting to hear if she’ll have to drive an hour into town to dialyze a brain dead man at the request of his family… he was on the machine for 7 hours today… I guess that fits Jean’s definition of charity over common sense… The family will be sure that “they” did everything possible and that’s good … I guess … and it is “free” after all, so why not

  76. Michael says:

    Nurses…are the best.
    I’ll bet your daughter is top of the line…

  77. Jean says:

    So, Michael, are you approving people mocking other people’s denomination?

  78. Jean says:

    Some people create a straw man of a person’s denomination so they can ignore the plain words of Scripture and chalk it up to a denomination they don’t like.

  79. Jerod says:

    John M, that’s because the world was flat and it was a whole different story… Waka waka

  80. Michael says:


    She asked an honest question to which you gave a standard Lutheran answer…which was wrong in my opinion.
    There was no mocking that I could discern.

    You are assured that you have it right.
    I’m equally assured that often, you’re not.

    Disagreement with Lutherans doesn’t mean non Lutherans are “mocking the Word” and the rest of the tired stuff we hear all the time.
    It means we interpret the Word differently than you do.

    I’m glad you’re a Lutheran.
    I’m equally glad I’m not.

    We can either get along as a group… or not.

  81. Em says:

    Jean, if you felt mocked as a Lutheran, please accept my apology….
    but if you give away your warm clothes and it is 20 degrees outside, as it is here right now, you will turn into a popsicle as you walk hone from court… ?

  82. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael @ your 5:53 – how did I get dragged into your lashing rebuttal?

  83. Michael says:


    You’ve been playing the “I didn’t mention a denom” game forever…even though Luther is included in your monicker…

  84. Jean says:

    I don’t know what interpretation this requires; is there anything here that is obscure or ambiguous:

    “Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.”

  85. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, you must be losing your mind. I mention denominations all the time. I don’t see how Jean’s initial reply to Em, was either standard Lutheran or right out of the Book of Concord.
    In each of these discussions you do a good job of laying out the immense gulf between confessional Lutheranism and fundamentalist Anglicanism – and I don’t raise a stink. I want people to know there is a distinction.

    But hey, let’s get back to Trump and his crazy wall.

  86. Michael says:

    Good Lord.

    “Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.”

    Let’s say you have enough in your account to pay the rent or feed your children…do you give it up and become homeless and your children go hungry?

    Do you forgo medication to give?


  87. Joe says:

    Regarding illegal aliens, it’s tragic that tens of millions of aborted Americans are not here to fill the available jobs.

  88. Michael says:


    Yea, because all those children would have immediately sought a job in agriculture…

  89. Michael says:


    What the hell is “fundamentalist Anglicanism?”

    That’s a term that you just coined because those two words haven’t been fitted together before…

  90. Jean says:

    That’s a common sense answer. But are we invited to relax any of Christ’s commands to what each of us thinks makes sense? Moreover, do we have faith that God, who clothes the grass of the field, will provide for our needs?

  91. Michael says:


    Reason is one of God’s gifts to us…unless you’ve plucked out an eye lately, I assume you know that.

  92. Jean says:

    I will accept your answer as yes to my first question. Thanks.

  93. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Using Em’s example I would think the right answer would be, give your coat and get another, or take the guy to Ross for less and buy him a coat, or take him to Goodwill, or knock on a neighbor’s door and ask if they have an extra coat. Anything but don’t ignore their need.

  94. Em says:

    MLD, the reference in question is the instruction, if someone asks for your coat, give him your cloak also… Your solution is kind of a work around, isn’t it? What if you have only the two garments, no money and no credit card?
    Jean says God will provide, i hope so…. Could be…. He provided for Michael’s Miss Kitty

  95. Joe says:

    “Yea, because all of those children would have immediately sought a job in agriculture…” I have read this blog for a while now and I know that you’re not as ignorant as that sounded. Sorry for interrupting your slugfest to make a rational point about the unintended consequences of abortion.

  96. Michael says:

    Conflating abortion with immigration issues is a long way from rational…

  97. Joe says:

    Sorry but I’m not joining the slugfest. It’s perfectly logical that millions of people absent from the workforce creates a vacuum.

  98. Em says:

    I just read an interesting article on Caesar Chavez, who unionized the California agriculture workers (most were Latino). He was hard over against the workers coming over the border from Mexico as the farmers ignored union demands and just hired the migrants from south of the border… They’d work for wages that wouldn’t buy food and shelter in the U.S. yet the low pay was great when the dollars earned were spent in Mexico… Not a new dilemma at least….

  99. Jerod says:

    Also fwiw

    The bracero program had huge holes in it, so Chavez unionized them, which was the final nail to the bracero program.

    Capitalism didn’t treat them right, unionization hasn’t done migrants any better. Hopefully picking technology will quell the argument. Fat chance of that, though. Seems like there’s a problem in our hearts , or something…

  100. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, all denominations have a fundamentalist wing – even Anglicans. Now, no fundamentalist wing self describes or likes to be describes as such but it does not make them any less so.
    I assume it is still in play but some time ago the House of Bishops was in a dogfight with the African communion over this very point labeling the Africans as fundamentalist as many American churches were placing themselves under the African bishop. Your group may have done the same.

    But aside from that I remember the African bishop with his parting shot saying to the House of Bishops (or perhaps to some of the more notorious members) something to the effect – if you don’t believe the Bible why did you bring it to us in the first place?

    In that case I would love to be called the fundamentalist.

  101. john m says:

    If the Atlantic ocean didn’t stop them you think a wall on flat earth will?

  102. Josh The Baptist says:

    If we really want to keep immigrants out, we should make our country less appealing to them.

    Surely, we are starting to do a good job of that.

  103. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    john m – if NOTHING keeps them out, then perhaps we should end all border and customs activities.

  104. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh, by reading your post I see you have fallen into the left’s misinformation machine. No one is trying to keep immigrants out – only those who refuse to abide by our laws – the illegal immigrants. But you are correct – make it illegal to hire them (punish employers harshly) and end welfare of all kind to illegal immigrants. That will make it ultimately undesirable. (but your opinion is a hellava lot more popular here than mine. )

  105. Michael says:

    “No one is trying to keep immigrants out – only those who refuse to abide by our laws – the illegal immigrants.”

    That is the misinformation.
    I call it a lie.
    The people that TL showed video of are people that came to our border to legally apply for asylum.
    In violation of our law and international asylum agreements, we’ve made that as difficult to do as possible in order to keep the current administrations narrative.
    The current immigration laws make it close to impossible for someone from Mexico or Central America to get here legally through our system.

  106. Michael says:

    Why does this have to be a left/right issue?
    Are we so intellectually and morally challenged that we can no longer address issues any other way?

  107. The New Victor says:

    Mi Pueblo, a Latino supermarket, did E-verify years ago. La Raza and other immigrants rights groups picketed them for discrimination against the undocumented. It was in the papers and a few blocks from me. I saw the protesters. From Wikipedia:

    “In September 2012, Mi Pueblo was criticized by labor organizations for enrolling in E-verify, a Department of Homeland Security program which screens employees for irregularities in their immigration status. As an owner, Juvenal Chavez was accused of hypocrisy, since he started out in business as an illegal immigrant. A spokesperson for the business said that Chavez supported fixing the “broken” immigration system.”

  108. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well that is not true either – but I will not stoop to your level and call you a liar.
    Look, even the photo op lady running from the tear gas with her small kids was allowed in a month ago.
    There are millions of Mexican nationals living legally in the US this very day – 12 million is the number I picked up from the Migration Policy Institute – and that is just Mexico.

  109. Michael says:


    I’m not calling you a liar.
    I’m saying that the narrative being sold is full of intentional misinformation and the people doing it know it’s not true.

  110. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I wonder what the count is of those who came up in the caravan who have been processed through for asylum – like the tear gas lady and her kids. Remember, thousands showed up together at one port of entry – one turnstile and an office with a limited number of desks. How many can be processed each day? Does anyone have any expectation that even 10% will show up for their asylum hearing? Will any show up for their hearing?

  111. Michael says:


    It is true.
    You need to distinguish between migrants and refugees and country of origin.
    Since you like the Migration Policy Institute you can read about wait times here…

  112. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael – talk about wait time – I have been “qualified” to go to the Superbowl for the past 40 yrs – but I can’t get through Ticketmaster fast enough to get what I am qualified for – so each year I go to the back of the line and try the next year. (still a no go this year.) 🙂

    I’m done, I need to go mop the kitchen and bathroom floors or mama won’t be happy with me.

  113. Steve says:

    I would preferred to work it out with prayer and revival. Prohibition didn’t work.
    Abortion once thought as impossible to change as the fall of the Soviet Union is being won through the prayer and youth movements and revival.
    The president’s hand was forced in this matter by witch Ann Coulter.
    You cannot battle demonic insanity and the Trump hatred evidenced in this blog also by means of the flesh like a shutdown.
    The people are wicked. Rationality is fiction.

  114. Michael says:


    Are you really saying I’m in the throes of demonic insanity because after almost twenty years of study I think Trump is dead wrong on the border and utterly incompetent otherwise?

  115. Josh The Baptist says:

    “Josh, by reading your post I see you have fallen into the left’s misinformation machine. ”

    Just when I was feeling like I miss my conversations here…

  116. Michael says:

    We miss you, Josh…

  117. Dan from Georgia says:

    Always love your input Josh! Keep it up!

  118. Josh The Baptist says:

    Thanks Michael. Just going through a very busy time. Last semester of Mdiv starts next Monday 🙂

  119. Duane Arnold says:


    Persevere… your heading toward the finish line! Or should that be the start line… ?

  120. Josh The Baptist says:

    May 17 is graduation. This have been grueling, but almost there.

    Already making inquisitions about Phd programs. Sadist I guess.

  121. Duane Arnold says:

    I’m starting a second doctorate this month. Sadist, indeed!

  122. Josh The Baptist says:

    Wow. Good on you!

  123. Jerod says:

    John M

    I think you replied to me. But I was being comical … I, uh, suppose…

    waka waka *sigh*

  124. Jerod says:

    I’m teaching in La Quinta this month so I’m taking a second language online.

  125. Jean says:

    I love the complimentary breakfast there.

  126. Steve says:

    Your attitude goes beyond studies.
    And it’s not just Trump.
    Resentment. Ministers. Conservative Culture heroes.
    Combining the true servants of God who voted Trump to save their grandchildren with demagogues like Ann Coulter.
    And slandering all of us together.
    Label it however you want.
    Studies is not my label.

  127. Steve says:

    Your attitude goes beyond studies.
    And it’s not just Trump.
    Resentment. Ministers. Conservative Culture heroes.
    Combining the true servants of God who voted Trump to save their grandchildren with demagogues like Ann Coulter.
    And slandering all of us together.
    Label it however you want.
    Studies is not my label.

  128. John M says:

    Jerod. Hehehe

  129. Josh The Baptist says:

    “voted Trump to save their grandchildren”

    I hope we can see how misguided this viewpoint is. It doesn’t mean that you weren’t sincere when you voted that way, but you were way off base. You were guided by fear and made a poor choice.

  130. Michael says:


    When I started researching border issues it wasn’t a left/right issue.
    It wasn’t something politicians could exploit for votes.
    It started with me standing in Juarez, Mexico and realizing that if I lived there, nothing would stop me from getting over the border to give my family hope and a future.
    I made relationships with evangelical ministers and churches in the area and became consumed with studying the region and supporting the people I came to love.
    Most of the people I worked with died or disappeared between 2008-2010.
    Now, I’m supposed to forget all that and all the years of research because it’s become a political football for the people here.
    For some of us this still isn’t a left/right issue because both sides lie like the devil and do nothing but make things worse.
    For me it’s a humanitarian issue and one of my own Christian identity.
    It’s a way of protecting my godsons and their children because the root issues never get addressed, the migrations will continue to happen, and the results of current thinking are going to lead to mass bloodshed through the hemisphere.
    So comfort yourself with whatever nonsense you choose to believe from Breitbart and World Nuts Daily…but know that it’s the people you think you’re protecting that will pay for it.

  131. Michael says:

    As far as “conservative culture heroes”…I’m on record as a big fan of Russell Moore…

  132. Em says:

    When someone accuses me of voting for Trump to save my family i suspect two things, they don’t put much stock in what the Bible says about the direction the world will always go and they are blind to how consumed with power lust and personal ambition H. Clinton was… Is the same to be said of Trump? Probably, however he is a businessman whose success is determined by the success of the product and, in this case, the nation is the product. Hillary? She is totally the product she is promoting…
    Just how it looks frim where i “sit”. ?

  133. bob1 says:

    I’d love to see Mafia Don run again for office…

    In Russia.

    He’s already doing their bidding anyway. He and boyfriend Vlad would make a handsome
    authoritarian couple, wouldn’t they?

  134. Jerod says:

    That’s a mic drop for Em

  135. Steve says:

    It’s not a humanitarian issue. It’s a Jesus issue.
    I said in my very first post. Missions. Not church buildings and biggest house and hottest wife and best university.
    No they will not keep coming here. They were invited by Republicans and Democrats.
    No they will not keep coming. But I repeat myself.
    Mexico already starting a wall of their own.
    And I will say again. The Trump hatred is demo nic.
    So shoot me.
    You’re not the only person who goes through physical and financial issues.
    I was told for 20 years I had blood and proteins in my urine. But I didn’t have time to get sick with a family to feed. Now they’re grown.
    Same with the mass or hernia.
    Then you can’t go in a doctor’s office without them taking blood pressure without permission or demanding a physical or blood work.
    Work your own blood and leave mine alone.

  136. Michael says:


    Mexico and Central and South America have been evangelized since the 1500’s.
    I’m curious as to what your expectation would be if there were even more.
    Yes, they will keep coming as long as there are people fleeing poverty and violence.
    Migrations are the biggest issue the world faces in the future.
    My loathing of Trump is not demonic, it’s rational and based on biblical principles of morality, justice, and righteousness.
    I’m exceeding glad that they check my BP at the doctors and order blood work when necessary…that’s their job…

  137. Duane Arnold says:

    I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, a majority of those at the border are, in fact, evangelicals…

  138. Em says:

    Maybe we need a new definition for the word, asylum?

  139. Michael says:

    I have reached the conclusion again that this is a subject that is pointless to discuss.
    Fox News and Breitbart have spread so much disinformation for so long that any lie they tell is considered fact and any rebuttal considered a leftist lie.

    All the work I’ve put in over the years means nothing up against Tucker Carlson.

    If I had more time left my one objective would be to teach Trey how to keep himself safe when we pay the price for being ruled by idiots.

  140. Michael says:

    While I’m at it, I will now repeat in part the lecture i always give T.
    If you want to understand any issue, you turn off the TV and you go to the library or the bookstore.
    You read history and you read writers whose lives have been dedicated to the subject you are studying.
    Then, and only then, do you have the “right” to have a bleeping opinion.

  141. Michael says:

    To what Duane said…the percentage of Christians in any group of migrants at our border is exponentially more than most places you live…

  142. Em says:

    Michael, Tucker Carlson is focused more on the looming threat of globalism and a powerful ruling elite class, giving the common man serf status again, not immigration…
    Almost everyone here agrees with your view on immigration and enforces it in their comments…
    In my mind the dichotomy is the question of whether or not we should and can successfully absorb all who want to come –
    Not convincing one old lady does not constitute failuure…. I recognize the world is in the midst of a changing dynamic, however …. Take heart ?

  143. Michael says:

    Tucker Carlson is an entertainer.
    Most of the people on “news” shows are.
    They are there to pander to to the bias of the the viewers.
    The only thing that they are authorities on is pandering for financial gain.

  144. Michael says:

    In truth, no one here knows my views on immigration because we never get that far…those kinds of conversations are almost impossible here or anywhere else.

    This is not a binary issue one is for or against…it’s deeply nuanced and complex.

  145. Jerod says:

    Michael, you routinely say that the issue is not political for you, that you aren’t wrangling on behalf of either party

    But the majority of your tirades are against conservative outlets and “thinkers”. I gather you are right of center, just a smidgen. Or maybe just off the spectrum altogether.

    I don’t think I’ve read your tirades concerning specificities of the lies concerning the Mainstream progressive or leftist outlets. Maybe I missed them? There is no pull in your punches for the right. There seems to be more grace for the left.

    I can understand why if that’s the case.

  146. Michael says:


    I don’t spend much time with either side of the media, but on this issue, here’s the difference I’ve noted.

    Left leaning reporting is incomplete…it’s important to address humanitarian issues, but we also have to consider costs, assimilation, security, etc.
    They also ignore the fact that the left has done nothing politically to help the situation… indeed, Obama was a freaking disaster on immigration issues.

    What I’ve seen on Fox and Breitbart are outright, outrageous lies meant to demonize the other and create rage.

    I think there’s a special place in hell for that…

  147. Em says:

    I know where Michael’s heart is and i cannot argue against that – period, but…
    It seems to me that, if the immigration issue wasn’t working to the far (radical?) left’s advantage, wouldn’t they be fighting it, instead of issuing platitudinous, insincere IMV, statements?

  148. Jean says:

    If one subjects God’s word on Christian love and social justice to human common sence, then how can one argue that either the left or the right is more righteous, because it is reduced to pragmatism and rhetoric.

    In order to uphold God’s word on Christian love and social justice, human reason from where common sense arises must play no more than a ministerial role in hermeneutics.

    One of the principle Reformation debates was whether God’s “ought” means “can.” In American, in which the Church has been heavily influenced by Arminianism, the answer for many is “yes.” This makes common sense a crucial tool for interpreting God’s law.

  149. Em says:

    Jean, in a nutshell, one can be right without being righteous. That is….
    Common sense. ?

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