Who Are We?
Outside of a base that’s been here anywhere from five to twenty five years, our readership turns over about every three years.
The readership used to be almost completely evangelical…but that has changed for obvious reasons.
I was wondering this morning…who are we?
I’d like it if we could get a handle on who we are these days.
What Christian tradition do you claim, if any?
Just for fun, what Bible version is your favorite?
I’m a homeless Anglican…and I use the NLT to teach and use half a dozen more daily.
You?
Peter Voorhees
Pastor a church affiliated with Calvary Chapel.
Grew up in the Lutheran tradition until I was 16 or 17.
I am partial to the NIV but have 5 or 6 others I read in conjunction with the NIV.
My pastor turned me on to this blog over 15 to 20 years ago (I don’t remember exactly when). I’ve been lurking a VERY long time but have only in the last year or so started to share some of my thoughts. I would love to be more active online but… ya know… life… grateful to glean from you all.
Thanks, Peter!
I understand about life getting in the way…keep sharing as you’re able.
Y’all know me. 2008 is when I started here.
Former hardcore SBC’er, now spiritually homeless but clinging to hope.
I haven’t been reading the bible much lately. After hours of daily study for decades, I feel like there has to be more to it. I miss the study and will return to it one day…but not today.
Thanks, Josh…we have so many new people that many won’t know you.
I honestly don’t know what I’d do if I wasn’t studying something…I’d be lost.
Hopefully, your desire will return…
I’ve been part of this group since 2005. I usually use the ESV, although I love reading the NLB.
I can’t believe it, but my wife and I are attending at SBC! I told the pastor over coffee that if I hear an endorsement of Trump or any of his cronies, that we would be long gone. He assured me that wouldn’t happen.
Thanks, Bob.
Remember when we used to check positions on stuff like baptism and speaking in tongues? Now we check and see if it is a MAGA church…times have changed…
I’m an adrift evangelical, though my favorite church to visit is a big Anglican church in Plano, Texas. I grew up in a very dispensational fellowship of churches and retain some of their outlook with a large exception of end-times gymnastics. I hope to be a member of the remnant that can continue to evangelize without the political baggage and evangelical penchant for ridiculous programs and self-congratulatory fanfare. Practical expressions of love, grace, and good works may turn the tide.
I’m an NIV guy.
Thanks fil.
From your mouth to God’s ear…
I hadn’t done much in the NIV in years, but there are a couple of great new study Bibles I love in that version…
I came during the Ocean Hills thing. Lurked through the whole Alex situation and other things.
Enjoyed meeting a few people in real life at the Efests (G-Man, Bob, MLD…).
Still mostly lurk, have written dozens of responses and comments, and deleted almost all of them before posting. Better to be thought a fool then to post something and remove all doubt.
I grew up CC. Literally learned to walk at a CC hippie commune. Went to CCBC. We left Calvary for the CRC in 1998, and have been at an EV Free since 2006.
I’m an ESV kinda guy.
Thanks, Everstudy.
I hadn’t thought about the Ocean Hills debacle in a long time…
That’s 2 ESV’s…used to be my go to, but it’s collecting dust now. I may need to remedy that…
I come from a tradition that is a blend of Pentecostal, Word of Faith, Assemblies of God and charismatic. After getting saved and realizing the Hagin/Hickey magazines that were wall-to-wall with scripture had nothing to say apart from the Bible, I found my way to people on TV and radio: Stanley, McGee, Swindoll, and Steve Brown.
Today I would say I’m a Protestant that leans Calvinist, is continuationist and is conserative with some moderate leanings theologially (I haven’t yet done the serious study that I ought to do to determine what my theology really is). I find value in many traditions, but not on the left nor on the extremes. Above all, I try to focus on Jesus, my Lord and Savior; I spent many years wasting my life when I could have been serving Him. However much time I have left, I hope to spend it in His service and not wasting away at a call center biding time until I die.
My favorite version of the Bible is currently the NKJV. The ESV is a close second. I also like the CSB, the NLT, the LSB (MacArthur’s update of the NASB), the NET (for the notes), the Message (because Eugene Peterson wrote it), the BSB and the MEV.
I consult the NIV 1984 version sometimes but the NIV reminds me of the Evangelical subculture that I’ve rejected: megachurches, Lucado, Swindoll, Moore, K-LOVE, etc.
I respect the KJV but stay away from it simply because of the archaic language; the NKJV takes out the archaic terminology but is based on the same manuscript (TR) and reads much the same way as the King Jimmy.
Oh, and I came here a few months before ‘The Shack’ hit the stands (and the fan) and didn’t really start commenting until that fun and games began. Night Crew began shortly thereafter…
BrianD,
Our first NKJV…
I need to look at the Berean Standard Bible…mainly because it’s copyright free if I ever write another book…
BrianD also set up all my social media way back when…and moderated here for years.
fil,
The Shack mess looks so insignificant as I look back…but it was anything but at the time…
Evangelical, ex (small) CC pastor, left the association for theological and personal differences. Retrospectively, still have anger out of that experience that I’ve put away but still triggers every now and then. Ended up here 10ys ago looking to get a perspective outside of the movement that would affirm what I was feeling/seeing to make sure I wasn’t imagining things.
My go to is the NKJV just because it’s comfortable to me but use ESV, KJV, and others to see different phrasing on what I’m studying.
I’m a Calvary Chapel pastor and have been for 50 years. I believe the Bible and try to follow Jesus, which often prevents me from fitting in anywhere. I’ve been reading PP from the beginning and continue to regard Michael as a valued friend. Although I still read PP almost daily, I tire of the angst of “the church is circling the drain” and I don’t really like cats all that much. I’ve also served my time as a Crusader, and have come to peace with the fact that most people value their agenda over the truth. I’m trying to take Bob Dylan’s advice that “he not busy being born is busy dying” to heart so I learn stuff that changes me most days, and my teaching is still fresh (or so they tell me) and hopefully will be until I fizzle out. You saved me a therapy appointment today. 😜
I am one of the evangelicals left here, even as I, ironically, skewer much of evangelical culture and behavior in my writing here.
I have never claimed to be of one specific denomination or sect. For the last few years I have attended a church which is evangelical and Reformed, even as I do not fully adhere to Reformed teaching. However, the church gets what’s important and majors on the core doctrines and tenets of the faith and not on the Reformed particulars. They also eschew any manner of partisan politics, even as they will at times address issues which may have some political ramifications. I am happy there.
The ESV has been my favorite Bible version for many years now.
Art,
Thank you for joining in…another vote for the NKJV…
Thanks, Dave…my cats don’t like you either… 🙂
Thanks for being a friend for longer than we’ve been here…
I’m Episcopalian by parish membership, but spend more time in Lutheran churches (ELCA) as a result of my wife’s work as a musician in mostly Lutheran churches over the last couple of decades. My wife and I love and feel most at home in the liturgy of the Book of Common Prayer 1982, and use it with the NRSV Bible for our prayer time at home. We both also love the King James Bible for its poetic sublimity. I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church, which I continue to love in certain ways, though I remain alienated from it. Was never tempted to become evangelical, even while visiting many evangelical churches as a searcher for ecclesial identity in the 1980s after my final breakup with the Catholic Church.
Thanks, KevinH.
One more for the ESV…
Robert F,
Good to have liturgical leaning folk here!
I share your love for the BCP and NRSV…
This is a fun read.
I came here around 2004 when I was a disillusioned Calvary Chapel pastor. I left CCA after the split, and left CGN about few years ago, but finally making it official some time last year. I was non-denom for sometime and eventually settled into the SBC, but now looking to move on from them. I’m going through a major transistion, not sure where I’ll end up, but these days I prefer the title of Christian. I’m not translation sensitive.
This community has enriched my life on several fronts, from meeting some good people to being inspired to finish my education. Three Masters, a graduate-level certificate, and a Doctorate, and I’m done. I’m an adjunct at a non-denominational seminary. I attend four very different seminaries, and each of them left an impact.
These days, I read this blog, my students’ papers, the Christian mystics and Desert Fathers and Mothers, but most important, the Psalms, Proverbs and Gospels.
I’ve visited your site occasionally for several years, mostly to read up on issues at CC, or pertinent comments by Michael or Chuck Smith Jr. But I’m visiting more now to just absorb some of the collective wisdom.
Over the years, my husband & I helped out with several small fellowships, some of which later became CC’s. But we drifted from them in the mid ’90s, as many had become quite conservative…we prefer to attend churches that won’t insult our invited friends, who might be gay or liberal or agnostic.
A few years ago I started attending CCCM and was pleasantly surprised by some of the changes. They seem quite serious about discipleship & the teachings of Jesus, which I love.
In my private life, I’ve been reading & discussing the New Testament for 4 years with an awesome young friend . Our little studies are her only church. We mostly use the NIV, but sometimes re-read in the NKJV or ESV for the more poetic nature.
Thanks to you all!
pstrmike,
Thanks for chiming in.
It dawned on me after reading this that you fulfilled my vision for what this place could be and how we could influence people for good…may your tribe increase….
Christi M,
Thank you for speaking up!
I enjoyed reading about your journey and how you’re channeling your ministry to a young person willing to learn…good stuff!
pstrmike,
Christian mystics? My Quaker brethren must have had an influence.😁
I surrendered my life to Christ halfway through my life after a sordid history.
Influences over the years: LCMS, ELCA, Community Churches, Calvary Chapels, Foursquare, Baptist, Independent Non Denominational, EVFree, to name a few.
Left many, got kicked out of a couple, visited quite a few more.
Moody Graduate, Modified Dispensationist, been called Fundamentalist, Bible basher, mostly treated spitefully and with contempt.
I wandered in her during COVID when I thought the whole world was going collectively insane. I was home teaching 8 hours a day on Zoom, talking to my cat (the one I had then), and basically going nuts myself. I don’t how I found PxP, but I was so glad I did!
I came to faith in an IFB church, but deserted to an evangelical church in college (Conservative Baptist). That was until I started attending my current EFCA (Evangelical Free Church) 20+ years ago when I got involved with the Spanish congregation. I have been there ever since. I lean theologically toward Reformed/dispensationalist, but I’m not hard-lined about it. I love the KJV, but I usually use the ESV or NIV. I also adore Philip’s translation of the New Testament, and my Biblia de las Américas (Spanish translation). I also owe a great debt of gratitude to the Good News for Modern Ma NT, where I discovered who Jesus really is.
I have close friends from just about every Christian tradition. We pray and study the Bible together. As long as you claim Jesus as died for my sins and rose again for my justification, I’m in.
I don’t recall the year I started here, but Michael’s 10 Things I’m Thinking feature pulled me in…I think it was linked from The Internet Monk.
Currently I am a nomad, wandering the desert, mostly of my own doing. But also not feeling comfortable in churches and with much of church culture.
NIV and ESV are my go-to’s.
Thought I would stop by. I’m still alive, but getting tired.u Hi everybody!
Taught to read from KJV. Dont like to mix other versions in since it affects my memory. It’s obsolete english but I’m also obsolete too. I don’t read much anymore. Slowly losing my ability to do so.
Born in a Brethren Assembly. They are essentially extinct. Early education was Fundamentalist. I spent the majority of my life in Evangelical groups of various flavors but always felt like an alien. View Evangelicalism today as…hmm..distasteful. Yes, that’s it..distasteful. It’s very strange to think back to the changes in the last 50-60 years.
Oh..I think I showed up here circa 2014. I think the Mars Hill mother ship was trying to stay airborne, and GFA was a new story. I was searching for answers after nearly a decade of Christian turmoil and trying to formulate a theology that could handle the decay corruption and hostility I was seeing/experiencing.
It was good to see a community working through issues together.
JD,
Thanks.
Why do you think it’s been so difficult for you to find a church home?
Linn,
You’re our model citizen… 🙂
You don’t seem to have any IFB left in you…
Dan,
The odd thing is that Michael Spencer and I didn’t get along…which was my fault and my loss.
I’m glad you found your way here…
Nathan,
Glad you’re still checking in and still searching…
Michael,
I wasn’t good at IFB, except that church parented me and kept me grounded when my parents’ marriage was failing and there was a lot of DV and drinking going on. The church is no longer IFB and I still have friends there.
Started out as a Calvary Chapel/Shiloh evangelical;
Went to a Lutheran seminary;
Mentored by Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican teachers;
Ordained an Episcopal priest in 1987;
Served in the United States and Europe;
Three master’s degrees and a PhD;
I’ve been associated with Michael Newnham for 12 or 13 years;
I write things occasionally;
NEB
I fully lost my faith in 2020. I discovered that my former pastor posts on here in a much more honest fashion than he ever spoke from the pulpit and it is… illuminating to say the least. I like lurking here. It is cathartic to watch all the quarrels from the outside.
Raised Evangelical. Now ACNA Anglican. Stumbled upon Internet Monk and then here in an attempt to reconcile what I learned about God and what happens in real life. I’m not a big Bible guy but have an NIV that I don’t read enough. I figure I hear and eat What and Who I need to each weekend at the Liturgy and then try to live it out in ordinary life. I really learn a lot here along with an EO blog. Thank you.
I’m happily ensconced in a small Lutheran congregation (ELCA, the liberal version).
We have a woman in the pulpit as Pastor. She’s very knowledgeable, and used to teach Math at a small college back East.
When I do read the Bible, it’s Bullinger’s Companion Bible (King James version).
It has extensive appendices of factual scholarship.
I was Baptist until age 30, Calvary Chapel until age 50, now Eastern Orthodox on into eternity. I cherished my time in the evangelical world but I belong with the Orthodox.
I use the KJV and the Reina Valera. Our parish uses the KJV and the Church Slavonic scriptures.
I have never heard a political sermon in an Orthodox Church although I imagine it happens. Half of our parish are foreign born (Russian, Ukraine, Moldova, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Denmark, Germany, Canada, Mexico, and more) so they have political opinions that are uniquely based on their backgrounds. For example, they pretty much universally hate any form of socialism. I would say we are all culturally conservatives, but it’s not discussed so I don’t really know. Of course, people will discuss their politics among their friends. As a whole, our jurisdiction (ROCOR) is considered to be the most conservative.
We pray every Sunday that Ukraine will be prevail against her enemies. No one I know is in favor of the Russian invasion, but we don’t like Zelensky, either.
My husband and I do the usual Orthodox things as well as we can as older people. Morning and Evening prayers, an easier version of the fasts, etc. I myself no long have the energy to attend All Night -Vigil (Lasts 2+ hours) but my husband attends.
Our little parish is being positively affected by the Surge. Every Sunday there’s a few more young people, mostly men, who visit. They don’t all stay but a lot do and we are having a lot of baptisms, including whole families. Glory to God! For myself, I try to make ’em all feel welcome. I used to knit little Christmas stockings for all the kids at Nativity but now there’s too many, especially if Fr. G’s grandchildren come to visit.
So we are very happy over here. We are still suffering from the death of our dear daughter but it’s the new normal, I guess I’ll say.
As for this blog, I must admit that I don’t find much joy here anymore. I love churches- all god-fearing Bible believing churches- and I don’t think they are all hypocritical pharisaical hate-fill Nazis. I get tired of reading that here because the Christians I know are wonderful, loving people who love their neighbors but would like to see laws obeyed. So yeah, I get tired of the constant droning against our brothers and sisters in Christ.
I must say that one of the biggest beefs I do have with Evangelicals is, what I consider to be, a serious misunderstanding of the Sermon on the Mount. Many are so entrenched in their distrust of good works (“working your way to heaven,” etc.) that they miss the whole point.
So I hang around here because I have affection for you guys but sometimes it is like fingernails on a chalkboard and sometimes you guys are just hateful as you claim your opponents are. If you all behaved like Linn this would be a far better space.
Michael,
I have always been doing independent study from kindergarten on.
I was a designated a MGM in grade school. Our class at an experimental school was building models of nuclear reactors while at recess we played with jacks and marbles.
I began to hate school in junior high and resumed independent studies in high school.
I never was one to sit there and listen to a lecture, and consider that to be a waste of time.
In college I would end up teaching the class which pissed of the ruling establishment.
I concentrated on music and art, had my own songs and music won out.
I don’t do groups and am a solo artist.
Had my fill of drama at church. If people can read their own Bible they should do so. I suppose that makes me a hermit,
Duane,
I’ve never read the New English Bible…why do you like it?
Steve Thomas,
Why did you lose your faith?
Don’t let people keep you from Jesus…
Joel,
I’m glad you’ve discovered the joy and sheer functionality of the liturgy…it’s the full meal deal… 🙂
Muff,
I’m glad you’re happily churched…but Bullinger?
Someone once told me “you feel like you are neither fish nor fowl – like you don’t belong anywhere.” Nothing has changed. But, “those who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Jesus Christ, and put no confidence in the flesh,” are my scattered tribe. I don’t doubt that some are here. Otherwise Xenia said it well. I linger in this place with nothing to contribute to the spirit of this narrative. But you can care even where your offering is not helpful.
Buy the Truth Dread
JD,
I think I understand…churches usually expect a measure of homogenity and it’s tough for people with unique dispositions…I struggle myself.
Michael
The NEB… They treated the translation as literature.
I’ve been here since around 2005, right around the time of the Skip Heitzig/Ocean Hills debacle. This was about the time Costco Cal showed up, as well. I’m a pastor a non-denominational church. In North Idaho who likes to keep the things of faith simple. I’m fairly optimistic, and yet often skeptical. I would like to get a big, fat ol’ Maine Coon Cat to go along with my Australian shepherd. I’ve taught out of the NLT the last 5 years. CSB before that.
Xenia,
“I must say that one of the biggest beefs I do have with Evangelicals is, what I consider to be, a serious misunderstanding of the Sermon on the Mount. ”
On this we agree…
PH,
Maine Coons are awesome cats…just a little more awesome than other awesome cats…
I planted an independent “evangelical” church in N Florida 30 years ago. I was told over and over by visitors that we were “just like Calvary Chapel”, and encouraged to join the ranks. I investigated that possibility, and after reading stacks of required literature and multiple interviews , I was awarded a blue dot in 2002. My problem was, I could not stop studying, and my theological views branched away from CC distinctives. I found myself in the tight spot of no longer believing in Dispensationalist doctrines, notably the rapture, and leaning toward Egalitarianism.
Four years ago, in my naivete, I reached out to CCA and CGN to see if I could still remain a CC if I disagreed with those two (in my mind, ancillary) doctrines, as I still passionately advocated a theologically conservative, verse by verse approach to teaching Scripture. To their credit, CGN was gracious, but clear that those two views were indispensable as far as CC goes, and said they’d list me as a friend of CC. CC adjacent, I guess. CCA never responded, simply removed us from the list.
So…I guess I’m an independent quasi-Evangelical, CC adjacent, never-Trumper pastor smack-dab in the reddest of states …and my pronouns are “doofus” and a long, tired “sigh”.
I teach from the NLT because of the dream team of scholars who worked on it, and for its wonderful readability in a group setting.
I first found PP shortly before the split, when a pastor at a CC Pastor’s retreat warned me to not go near it (the same one who also warned me that our churches need to be built on Chuck Smith and who looked puzzled when I said I’d stick with Jesus as the foundation). I’ve been reading and mostly lurking ever since.
Praying for your health Michael.
Rob,
Thanks for the prayers…much appreciated.
We have a few ‘CC adjacent pastors here…it’s a hard road.
Nothing built the readership of this site more than when Greg Laurie announced it off limits at a pastors conference around 2003 or 04…
Thanks for reminding me about the dream team behind the NLT…it is a formidable assembly indeed…
Always studying, never Trump…may your tribe increase…
Bob S.
Actually, it was your Quaker sisters who were influential. That and a retired conservative Episcopalian ( yes, there are a few).
Here are a few of my highlights.
2005-I googled Joe Sabolick lawsuit and the PP
was at the top of the listings with a small LA Times article.
I had a good friend hoodwinked by Joe for a season.
I had to come here.
I started seeing many unhealthy dynamics of CC Group think and behavior challenged in the PP but either unaddressed or supported within CC of which I had been a part of at that time in various pastoral leadership roles for 21 years.
Of course this was a community that validated the pain and confusion and ghosting that many had experienced and cultivated an identity and practice of wounded healers.
That’s what kept me here.
The people:
Back in 2007-2012-13 ???
I met some and even befriended fellow PP participants either through a couple of EFests or in other ways. I along with several PP people actually participated in a renewal of wedding vows service for a fellow PPer.
I have met and prayed with a few on phone calls, hikes, homes and hospitals.
I picked up a couple of CC pastors from a Pastors conference once I was on the outside and helped them escape the conference center for a bit.
I just had lunch in TN with a longtime friend and fellow PPer . If I say AB some of you know who I mean.
I once engaged in challenging conversation one of Joe’s fake personas who posted back here in the day.
One great area of CC that I cherished once on the outside was the annual CC Missions Conference .
It leveled the playing field and you found people hungry for Jesus and willing to sacrifice to give away what they received from Jesus.
Favorite Bible CSB
But if you show the life signs of joy as a living epistle than I am all for your favorite Bible as long as it’s not supplemented by the Book of Mormon or New World Transversion.
Michael is the one friend I wish I could meet in person and he is a true shepherd. His doctrinal journeys might sound messy as he articulates his questions and provokes discussion but He is not leaving the true Jesus doctrinally or in seeking to live out the core dynamics of love embedded in His commands.
And he goes after the one and sticks with them.
And since I am typing on an IPhone, in spite of my best efforts to spell correct or remove typos , they will probably still be there in this post.
vic!!!! 😎
I was an Administrative Pastor at a CC (I still refer to it as the Company) in California and left the staff in mid 2011 to follow Jesus. It may sound cliche but I remember the words of Jesus in John 17 jumping off the pages like never before, “And this is eternal life, that they may know you the only true and living God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” I felt an incredibly strong sense that He was asking me to leave everything and follow Him. It has been just over 14 years and I would say that I am a bit of an Exvangelical attending an Anglican Church where my wife and I have found respite. I was introduced to PP by an old friend that used to be at the CC where I attended. I have been using the NRSV for quite some time but I just opened up my old Bible which is an NKJV…mostly because I wanted to see some of my notes from back in the day.
Very thankful for PP and though I don’t always comment, I come here almost daily.
Thank you Michael and all the other contributors and commenters…I am sharpened by each of you regularly.
Grace and peace!
Xenia, thank you for your testimony. I largely lurk these days, but I am glad you’re here and I’m sure Michael and many others would agree with that sentiment.
Since some are talking about how they got here, I’ll jump in.
I found Michael’s blog years ago after having questions about some things I was seeing at the local CC I had begun attending. I left that CC, and got involved with the blog community, especially the night crew.
The things that stand out to me from the early years include the insanity and free-for-all in the comments, JJ using often hilarious satire to call out the powerful within the CC movement, and Buster’s contributions, especially the infamous Bitter Dove.
I was very lonely during that time and very frustrated at my job, and the blog was a lifeline for me. It was my church. I eventually left the blog, and for a time the faith, but the Lord never left me and drew me back to Himself. And, I found my way back to this blog, off and on.
Michael has ministed to me personally several times since, and he is perhaps the only man of God I’ve met who acted as a pastor to me and didn’t reject me. Even when I left, and later went crazy during covid and started blocking people, he was still there, and I saw Jesus in him. Jesus restored what the enemy tried to destroy, and I am seeing the world through Christ-like eyes, and more broadly than the traditions I have passed through would see.
As I said earlier, I like the NKJV. The translation reads like the KJV I was exposed to growing up. The ESV is a close second; it probably will be the version I use for my next read-through of the Bible. I also like the CSB, and I’ll read through it after the ESV.
I’ve been checking out the Berean Standard Bible and Modern English Version too (both based on the Textus Receptus like the KJV and NKJV), and looking at the notes in the NET Bible when I study the Bible. I like the LSB because it’s an update of the NASB, although both can be wooden at times. The NLT isn’t my favorite, but I have it up when I compare translations, as I do the Message. I trust Eugene Peterson and trust the Holy Spirit to help me figure out what’s solid and what isn’t when I call it up on my devices.
I’m not a fan of the NIV. Reminds me too much of evangelical culture from the ’90s and ’00s that wrapped Jesus in upper-middle-class white suburban religion. I do consult the NIV 1984 version, though.
The Amplified Bible is one that’s used often in the church I’m attending right now, but to me the translation is often overkill; it’s like the translators decided to pick words out of the thesauraus and jam them into parentheses at various points throughout the Scripture.
The Passion Translation, from what trustworthy people on YouTube like Mike Winger say, is a hot mess and Simmons’ explanation of how he wrote it is typical charismatic craziness that seems tailormade for Christian TV.
I’m unsure about the NRSV — it seems a bit too liberal/progressive for me at certain points (please correct me if and where I am wrong).
vic,
Thanks for sharing your history…the Sabolick situation was the strangest thing I ever got involved in…went to L.A. twice to mediate.
I’m glad you were able to speak with AB…he’s walking a hard road …
Thanks for the kind words as well….and the generous spirit behind them.
Uncle Buck,
Thank you for joining in and your kind words…good to know how people got here.
Brian D,
You did more than just join in here…you put in a lot of work that still profits us to this day.
We owe you substantial gratitude for your contributions.
As to Scripture…any version you read is fine.
I greatly prefer the critical text, but I like to get deep in the weeds.
The NRSV is probably my second favorite version…
Michael,
Bullinger’s Companion Bible is what I read, when I read the Bible.
It has extensive appendices of factual scholarship.
I’ve long been a free thinker in the ‘Christo-verse’ so to speak, and I pick and choose according to the dictates of my conscience
I hold to tenets of The Apostle’s Creed as non-negotiable parameters of my faith.
I think I have been reading (and often just lurking )here a good 10+ years now , seen quite a bit of the comings, goings ,conversations and sometimes battles here.
I was raised Lutheran and that’s the only church I’ve ever attended (ELCIC, although when I was living in the US for 14 years it was Missouri Synod). Not necessarily by choice , I was baptized there amd just stayed with it .My attendance for the last several years has been rare – I had already been disillusioned with church life , and then big changes occurred in the church , beginning with a pastoral change . I manage to attend a few times a year now , but it’s not home ,and for years it hasn’t been a warm, accepting environment . But in my smal town, and even the larger area , there are few options .
PP has been my church during this time. I feed on the Collect, the Sunday, and the articles posted. The Word of God is spoken here, and I am grateful for it. The preaching and teaching here is what has kept me here.
I was an NIV reader for a long time , but for the past couple years I’ve been liking the ESV quite a lot. I also keep the NLT handy for comparison . Also been using Henry’s commentary , but I would like to hear recommendations from others here in that department .
Thanks to Michael and all those who make this blog possible .
Thank you, BrianD!
You’re welcome, Xenia! And I have a question: would you please explain what the cross in your avatar represents, and what special meaning is has to you (if any)?
Michael, I understand most versions will work just fine. Dr. Mark Ward and others have said the same thing. It’s really a matter of personal preference and conviction.
Another version I won’t read, though: the Mirror Bible. Mike Winger did a video on it and it’s another man-made mess.
It’s a traditional three-barred cross, beloved of the Orthodox. Each bar is representative of an aspect of the Crucifixion:
The top bar is the board where “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews” in Hebrew, Latin and Greek is written.
The middle bar holds His outstretched arms and is where His hands are nailed. This is the bar normally seen on ordinary crosses, used by all Christians. (We use simple one-barred crosses as well as the 3-bar variety.)
The bottom bar is slanted, The right side points to heaven (or paradise) and is where the good thief went and the downward-pointing side points to perdition and is where the bad thief went.
Our parish church has five blue cupolas (small onion domes) with 3-barred cross atop each dome. It seems to me the Slavs use this style more than the Mediterranean Orthodox but I haven’t been everywhere and seen everything so I might be wrong about that. Thanks for asking!
Xenia, thank you for your explanation!
Owen,
You and your family have been a blessing to me for years.
Grateful for all of you through all my trials.
In terms of commentaries…we just bought everyone in our church the NIV Application study bible…I think it’s as good as it gets…
When I first got saved in 1986 I read through the RSV five times cover to cover that year making notes on the margins, footnotes and references.
Then got a Strong’s and used the KJV and Interlinear Parallel Greek and Hebrew Bible for a couple of years. Ended up writing songs using the KJV exclusively because of its poetic value. After my accident I couldn’t even read at all for about a year. Nowadays I read aloud from the NASB which helps my breathing due to the long-winded sentences.
I forget when I first began commenting here but it was most likely circa 2012-13 as controversies escalated around me former church Mars Hill. By then I was firmly ensconced in a PCA church where the pastor had apprenticed with Tim Keller and we had women serving as deacons, which made us too liberal for the PCA and the irony of that was that Mars Hill never had problems with women deacons so on that front many a fundamentalist and evangelical would have found MHC “liberal”.
I grew up with more an Assemblies of God background in western Oregon. My spiritual heritage is Pentecostal on my mom’s side (white Okie extracts who ended up in Oregon) and on my dad’s side (Native American tribe from Olympic peninsula) I picked up a low-church Calvinist heritage. The older I get the more grateful I am that my exposure to Reformed and Calvinist theology came from the Native American side of my ancestry and NOT the white Southern side. Another ironic/weird aspect of my upbringing was that I grew up Pentecostal in western Oregon but the textual scholar Gordon Fee came from Ashland, OR. One of my AG youth pastors urged me to read Francis Schaeffer, Solzhenitsyn, Gordon Fee but was on the fence about Kierkegaard (whose meditations on Christian love were amazing but whose apologetics were disastrous). That AG youth pastor also introduced me to exegesis and hermeneutics and to the idea that you could interpret Revelation from an amillennial perspective rather than a dispensationalist one. One of my college profs would later tell me I probably had no idea how fortunate I was to have had “that” kind of Assemblies of God youth pastor!
In other words, longtime and theologically alert readers may have inferred I grew up Pentecostal but exposed to the most cerebral and bookish form of it available in the United States and my exposure to Calvinist theology came through PNW Native American family and not the usual Southern Presbyterian stuff. But I didn’t WANT to be a Calvinist at all. I ended up becoming one anyway over the course of my 20s but I could never bring myself to write off my Pentecostal heritage even as I firmly rejected the Latter Rain and spin-off ideas that were veering into Rick Joyner/Kansas City/jingoistic revivalist stuff. It may be the Native half of my upbringing but I very swiftly took revivalism to be a nasty nationalist jingoistic fixation in American theology.
I went to a little private Christian school and ended up becoming friends with Christians from Kenya and Japan (though that’s not necessarily how I picked up my anime/manga habit). I eventually ended up at Mars Hill in the 1990s because I was theologically conservative but culturally curious (Hayao Miyazaki films, I got to see a screening of Oshii’s Angel’s Egg with the director at hand). Also have an interest in music. The very early Mars Hill seemed more like an evangelical arts commune than anything the church would later become famous and infamous for. Before 2000 there was not the Mark Driscoll show thing that was so firmly entrenched by 2003.
Mom had veered farther and farther right over my life (she thought the only thing Nixon did wrong was getting caught and was pining for a pro-Trump coup in the Biden term). I began to realize that I was conservative but not like that. Michael, at least, will get what I mean when I say I figured out that I was a Senator Mark Hatfield conservative in my politics. The GOP hasn’t had any place for that kind of conservative since Newt Gingrich. Not very liberal in my politics and yet I have half a dozen books by the Marxist-Leninist philosopher Theodor Adorno alongside my Roger Scruton books. I still read Puritans like Richard Sibbes but also Emil Brunner and some Ephraim Radner and have some fun with Esther Hamori and Esther Acolatse’s work.
Conservative evangelical with an ecumenical streak crossing politics and religion. I don’t have to agree with many things Theodor Adorno said to have benefited from reading half a dozen of his books. If Christians don’t even read Charles W Mills for themselves they won’t appreciate that there are authors in the CRT field who have some really good ideas. Pointing out the white supremacist exception clauses baked into the tradition of European liberalism from Kant through to Rawls doesn’t mean there are no good elements in the liberal tradition, it means that it’s worthwhile to see how white supremacist Hume and Kant were while not ignoring that they did have some good ideas, too. Roger Scruton had some good ideas but he also made a big mistake in thinking of Anglicanism as Englishness. I couldn’t help thinking after I read Our Church that Scruton seemed to be missing that there are probably more Anglicans (and more orthodox Anglicans) in Africa than in all of England. Scruton’s snobbery and elitism was annoying but his attempt to tackle the philosophical issues of what music is and how or if it communicates are worth reading even when I don’t agree with him.
We live in an era where The Big Idea is taken or spurned based on commitments. Roger Scruton declared that because his neo-Platonic cosmology has been debunked the rest of Augustinian thought on music is moot. Well, Scruton’s wrong there because nobody has improved upon Augustine’s observation about the relationship between music and working memory. Adorno was disastrously wrong about jazz but his observation on the problems of how interchangeable pop song blocks of sound were isn’t invalid. The historian Ada Palmer has joked that historians getting things wrong is how historians can ever eventually get things better. The Big Idea from a theologian or a philosopher might be wrong but the Secondary Idea can still be robust. Whether Bishop Berkeley’s anti-materialism holds up doesn’t mean his observation about the relationship between mind and eye hasn’t been vindicated by medical research in the last sixty years.
One of the things I’ve come to appreciate about biblical scholars from Africa is that they read across the mainline and evangelical/fundamentalist divides that trans-Atlantic scholarship in Euro-American contexts resolutely refuse to do. Esther Acolatse reads Walter Wink and Merrill Unger, which is how she’s able to make the observation that mainlines tend to see systems of evil and not personal sin while charismatics see personal evil and not systems of evil. Taken at a truly global and historical scale Christian teaching admonishes us to remember that there are both evil systems and sinful people. It was easy for Walter Wink to talk about powers being created good but they have fallen yet can be redeemed back when Clinton was in office but, now? Would Wink have said the powers and principalities in the United States are redeemable now? This would be the part where my Native American half would snort and say “No.” We should stop expecting the latest iteration of Babylon the Great to suddenly become the New Jerusalem. It doesn’t mean I hate America or anything, it means that I’ve felt that I have had too really global an experience of Christian fellowship with believers from all over the world and in different eras of church history to pine for MAGA or the Aaron Sorkin MAGA variation Jed Esty pointed out was in high gear twenty years ago. Esty nailed that! If I only read conservatives and not also leftists I wouldn’t have come across Esty at all. It’s okay to be an evangelical with conservative theology and politics who still goes out and reads The Baffler now and then.
I like the RSV, NAS and Revised English Bibles lately. Alter’s translations have also made for fun reading.
I have been Michael and Trey’s friend since 2007.
I have been around PhxP since the Simpleminded Preacher days. I was a CC company hat guy. I came here to argue mostly. Absolutely everything has changed since those days. Everything. I am still radically changing.
I am that one nutcase that loves The Amplified Bible. I don’t have one anymore, but if I buy a Bible again, that will be the no brainer choice.
I’m a very long time lurker. I used to post some years back occasionally but haven’t in a very long time and most likely won’t again.
I was in the CC “system” for about 20 years. Left because of all the typical issues noted here over the years. Currently I am at a crossroad. I no longer believe quite a bit of what dispensational Evangelicalism teaches that was seeded into my head for so many many years, i.e the Rapture, once saved always saved, “gifts”, Communion just a cracker and juice “memorial”…etc.
A few years ago for the first time I read a lot of Church fathers writings and the Didache. I was a bit shocked at some of what of what I read, it certainly doesnt describe todays Evangelical Church. While an Evangelical I knew nothing about these writings and was taught zero church history other than being taught Luther was the good guy
( history might argue otherwise) basically I was ignorant of anything but CC.
I’m weary of the mega church Ted Talks and rock concert scene, everyone put your hands in the air group think. Roll’um in, roll’um out..I’ve wanted a more quiet reverent worship. So I found a Traditional Latin Mass a few blocks from my house. I was raised Catholic and was vehemently anti Catholic for decades. But here I am. I will NEVER accept a lot of there teaching, i.e Purgatory and the Marion stuff. And Pope’s can be a wretched lot especially the last one and now the current. But I do believe in the consecrated Eucharist as real Blood and Body of Christ, communion of Saints and some other things. But I certainly cannot call myself a true Catholic nor would they call me one if they knew what I reject, lol.
So belief wise I’m stuck in the middle between Traditional Catholic and Evangelicalism. No man’s land. I’m doing my own thing I guess. Smorgasbord Christian.
I might be closer to Orthodox. But at this stage I have no desire to seek conversion and go through all that. I feel each Christian construct/Church has been corrupted by men from the Lords original intent. But we live in a fallen world. Let God judge my heart.
WTH–I have always read your posts with fascination and a great deal of curiosity, but your comment on this thread has provided a wealth of background, context, and fodder for thought (as usual.)
WTH,
As f noted, always a lot to digest…thank you for taking the time to contribute…
Phil,
Seems like yesterday…
Reuben,
You’re family…glad you’re with us…
Bluesky,
You might be an Anglican…
Very late to the comment thread but I’ve been pondering commenting for the first time so here goes.
I currently attend a PCA church and have been attending Presbyterian churches for the past 25 years. All my Bible verses are memorized in the KJV but I mostly read ESV these days.
I guess I’m still an evangelical but I hold that label with humility and a bit of sadness. I pray for the best things about that descriptor to be more and more real. Just as these days I bow my head during the pledge of allegiance and ask God to make those words true about my country.
I think I found this blog about 15 years ago when googling something in order to try to understand a news item about Calvary Chapel.
I grew up at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. My mom was there in the tent days. I attended school there from K-12. I was dedicated as a baby by Pastor Romaine, baptized at Pirate’s Cove (by Dave Rolph) and married at Calvary Costa Mesa . I carpooled to school with someone who is now a famous OC CC pastor. My husband also graduated from CCHS and his family was very involved there. My husband and I both stopped attending CC’s in college. God has blessed us with wonderfully formative church communities in all the places we’ve lived.
However many years ago I found Phoenix Preacher, I wasn’t sure what it was or what I had found. I never expected it to be a place of blessing and encouragement as it has definitely been for me this past year. The call to examine my own heart and to love God and to love enemies has been so good for me. While being clear eyed about the existence of people who may name Christ but actively deny his ways has been comforting.
So thank you for being an unexpected blessing.
L,
Once a week Duane and I talk about how things are going here and we’re always questioning if we’re making any difference.
Comments like yours help us immensely…thank you for sharing your story…it’s been a blessing.
I’ve been a lurker for over 10 years here, occasionally commenting, but now I check in every week to just read articles and comments by my betters here. I was raised Lutheran, and definitely met Christ in Sunday school there, but I was “born again” at Calvary Chapel North Park in college in 1975. In ’78 I married was married in the same CC. We attended CCs for over 30 years. My husband led worship for 8 years at CC Poway, as I taught Sunday school there, and public school.We attended various CCs for 30 years. Our two children were dedicated at CC Vista. We left Calvary Chapel when we felt they were becoming too political and too far right. A well known leader’s wife in the CC Movement, part of a world-known missionary couple, one day stood behind the pulpit in the sanctuary in front of 350 women and told us that, as Christian wives, we had no right to vote in government elections but had to vote however our husbands told us to. (As Doug Wilson in Idaho teaches). That was the last straw for me, and we left CC after 30 years. We attend a local evangelical church now. Leaving CC was difficult for us, and this site helped me realize that we made the right choice, as difficult as it was to leave. I read the New King James Version of the Bible; as others have mentioned – I love the poetry in the translation. I bought the ‘Living Bible” for my kids to read, and I sometimes look at a verse there if I’m not clear on the meaning. I love Beth Moore’s Bible studies, C.S.Lewis, Tolkien,band’s variety of Christian authors, and appreciate David Trenches editorials in the NYTs. I gain so much reading ALL of the articles here, and I’ve been very blessed by this site. Michael’s honesty and faith is refreshing and inspiring to me.
Correction! I enjoy David French’s articles! Typing on my phone here, and not very well.
BrideofChrist, Janet Linn,
Thank you much for sharing your faith journey and for the kind words.
I too love Lewis and Beth Moore is a saint.
David French keeps me sane…
Mainly a lurker here on and off over the years. It has always seemed like a committal I am not ready for to begin regularly writing and interacting. Grew up RCC. Saved and discipled in California CC from mid nineties until about 2010. Attended CCBC mid-nineties. Confessional Reformed Baptist now. Live in Midwest… NASB definitely is my preferred, but feel confined to ESV due to its use in my church, etc.
Mostly a lurker, check in about once a week. Cradle Catholic into my 30s and Episcopalian since. In theology and politics a liberal (which is why I mostly lurk, because it’s not my intent to dispute) but firmly in the traditional liturgy camp, so Rite I all day. Preferred Bible: Douay-Rheims while Catholic and NRSV since.
SoCal born and bred. A few of my non-Catholic friends were active in Greg Laurie’s Harvest Crusades; others in Raul Ries’s church (Diamond Bar?). I was so fascinated by how my friends found meaning in CC, so different from my own church experience. One ended up at Ocean Hills, and surfing for info on the Heitzig thing I found my way here.
I’ve stayed because this is one of the few places I’ve found where folks from a very different theological (and political) headspace to mine think through the same challenges I and my liberal Christian friends do…but because of the culture here, I don’t doubt the motivation or sincerity of what’s said. The perspectives and experiences I’ve seen shared here are ones I wouldn’t be as willing to consider (or maybe trust?) if I heard them elsewhere, which is a credit to the community that Michael, Dr. Duane, and Kevin…and everyone who contributes, really…have created.
Tec-Dan,
Thank you for your trust…and thank you for staying with us through the years.
Another very long time lurker here! Raised Lutheran, started going to a non-denom with a truly excellent pastor after an issue with our Lutheran church. Then there was a huge split with non-denom church, so floundered for a few years. Started attending CC when one of my kids started going to one. Found this group when issues in CC started to surface(online, our pastor never said a word, of course, and denigrated this site besides). That was probably close to 20 years ago. Left CC when I could no long agree with a number of things, no need to mention them all, both theologically and with the Moses model.
Now back to a Lutheran church,(LCMS) although my husband is still attached to CC. I don’t agree with everything in the LCMS either, but I love the liturgy and the hymns! I play the piano every other Sunday. I believe in the basics– the creeds, communion and confession. I read the ESV after years with the NIV.
If you ever wonder, Michael, if this site is valued– trust me, it is. There are times when I wouldn’t have stayed in any church without it, I was so discouraged. Would probably go ACNA but there aren’t any nearby.
SharonP,
Thank you for joining in and being with us over the years.
It means a lot to know we have been a help.
You touched on something I’ve been thinking about…the form of worship and denominational affiliation means less than ever…what matters is a place where you can be safe and fed.
I think that may be a good thing…