XXII. Of Purgatory

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20 Responses

  1. Xenia says:


  2. Xenia says:

    Being translated to mean, I believe in most of those things.

    Not Purgatory, though.

  3. Purgatory?
    Oh hell no! 😉

  4. “Many things have been, and still are created by the church that find no Biblical foundation whatsoever. Maybe we could identify some of those things…”

    Here’s a pet peeve, “The Anointing”, as in, “he’s got the anointing”, or “God will remove His anointing”…

    This is so subjective, so fuzzy, yet ChuckSr has used this terminology for decades. I can understand those in the charismatic movement using it, and it is just as fuzzy, but what is it supposed to mean, how is it quantified and qualified?

  5. Is anyone considered less of a Christian if you do believe in purgatory?

  6. Lutheran says:

    Many things have been, and still are created by the church that find no Biblical foundation whatsoever. Maybe we could identify some of those things…

    Welcome to a Rorschach test. Most people believe that their church or tradition is the only “right” way to God, and/or to live for God and to h-e-double toothpicks to everyone else.

    Sometimes, however, a doctrine makes for strange bedfellows.

    Take apostolic succession. It’s believed by the RCC, EO, Anglicans, Mormons and Methodists Lutherans, Presbys and low-church Prots. vote nay.

  7. Reuben says:

    MLD, my answer to your question would be no.

    G @4, that is one that I have personal experience with. I had a “anointing” once. It was also lifted because I had a “religious spirit” in me. The anointing we receive is to preach the gospel. 1 John 2:27

  8. Reuben says:

    However, the anointing I had was made up of some supernatural musical powers that never came to fruition. It was the “worship warrior” thing made up by James Ryle many years ago. The whole “sons of thunder” prophesy…

    Funny thing is I drive by his former church every day now. It has a different pastor, of course, and they changed their name to Vine Life.

    Ryle was out there, even for Vineyard.

  9. Jtk says:

    Purgatory, now known as Durango Mountain Resort, is lovely and has a large, heated pool with a slide that is delightful.

    I have a swimming anointing.

    And what modern inventions do we have we no Biblical evidence?
    Cheesy Christian movies.
    Cheesy adult contemporary Christian music.
    And Christian bookstores with Bible verses on doilies.
    And casseroles.

  10. Reuben,
    Googled & found this…



    Um, ok, this is exactly the kind of stuff that appeals to the imaginations of us artists, musicians and mystical types. It’s what sweeps through our minds when we just let go and start making random connections, usually after ingesting some combination of late night fare. We practice this when we are purposefully letting our imaginations “go wild”, but a trained mind in the field of image making, painting, illustration or cinematography knows full well we’re doing it. It’s the storyboard of a graphic novel or video game, a wild first draft of a script, read aloud.

    It didn’t surprise me one bit that the guy dreams of (eyes rolling while I type this) a mystical “Beatles Power Amp”. I had that amp and obviously didn’t get enough on e-bay when I let it go. 😉

    This is the kind of zanyness that I both hate and love about my freewheeling charismatic brothers and sisters, in circles where they encourage “hearing a word from The Lord”.
    I’ve seen lives ruined and I’ve also seen captives set free and emboldened because they dared to think outside the box.

    Thanks for giving me that reference. Downright fascinating!

  11. Reuben says:

    Imagine, as a late teen, playing guitar, having that as your motion in life. I wanted, with every fiber of my being, for it to be true. Then imagine being told that this mantle had been lifted from you because you were asking the pastor to pray about a gig that was not setting up well. I had to rehab in the back of a little mountain church for years before I felt worthy to ease back into worship ministry.

  12. Reuben,
    I am so sad that you suffered that.

    I must also admit being caught up in the idea that worship was something more than a simple encounter with God.

    Hope you’ve regained the simple joy that comes with practicing our craft!

  13. Reuben says:

    All part of the journey. I went from Charismania to straight laced performances for 10 years. I quit that because there was no power in it. It was dead performances. I was not worshiping, I was performing. So to a degree, I miss the free-style worship of the Vineyard days. I just don’t miss anything associated with it.

    I don’t play anymore. No intention of getting back into it.

  14. Papias says:

    “Skipping Article 21 because it is of little relevance today.”

    Not sure I would agree with that statement, as the work of the General Councils (7 Ecumenical Councils) is foundational towards our shared faith, but hey….its not my thread. 😉

    JC Ryle states –
    “Let us mark, in the last place, as we read the Articles, the unvarying reverence with which they always speak of Holy Scripture. The inspiration of the Bible, no doubt, is never distinctly asserted. It is evidently taken for granted as a first principle, which need not be proved. But if constant references to Scripture, and constant appeals to the authority of Scripture, as God’s Word, are allowed to prove anything, in no document does the Bible receive more honour than in the Articles.

    The Twenty-first Article says that “things ordained by General Councils as necessary to salvation, have neither strength nor authority, unless it be declared that they be taken from Holy Scripture.”

    The Twenty-second Article condemns certain Romish functions, “because they are grounded on no warranty of Scripture, but are rather repugnant to the Word of God.””

    So as Ryle states, the Articles have more to do with holding the Scripture as the sole authority in salvation, and definitley distancing oneself from any practice that does not have a support therein.

  15. PP Vet says:

    It is one thing to not believe in purgatory.

    It is another thing to believe that Christians, full of unrepented sin and wrong attitudes, can transition smoothly into glory after death.

    The clarity of the scriptures on such matters does not always live up to the absolute confidence of teachers and preachers on these topics.

    Repent and get right. There is no easy out.

  16. Lutheran says:

    Good grief. How can you know if EVERY sin and sinful attitude is repented of at death? Good luck with that one! If that’s what you’re banking your eternal life on, you’re in error.

    The Sacraments are given to us just for that very reason — to bring peace and assurance to the soul. A piece of receiving the Lord’s Supper is confession of our sins. But the focus is not on us, but on the Lord Christ. When communion is distributed, the forgiveness of sins is both proclaimed (1 Corinthians 11:26) and physically delivered to the recipient. That’s why many people receive the Lord’s Supper on the cusp of entering into Eternal Life.

  17. Anne says:

    Before affiliation became the tool for accelerating brand expansion in CC, it was a form of apostolic succession that most often determined who would plant and lead new works, by the laying on of hands. It was especially considered uber special, powerful, if it was CS himself who passed on the anointing.

  18. Lutheran says:


    I think apostolic succession means your church claims a direct, literal connection or lineage with the literal first-century apostles of Jesus, doesn’t it?

  19. Anne says:

    Yes, in the historical sense, you are correct. In the circles that believe God is still raising up new apostles (or Moses’s), they consider themselves to have the same power and authority by the Holy Spirit as their direct connection to the orginal 12. Even more so in some circles than those men who actually were in apostolic succession, because the new are true followers and “really”anointed by God in contrast to those rascally apostate RCCs and EOs 😉

  20. A. Amos Love says:

    Hey ( |o )====:::

    Yes – Me too – You write…
    “Here’s a pet peeve, “The Anointing”, as in,
    “he’s got the anointing”, or “God will remove His anointing”…”

    These “Pastors that Abuse” “Pastors addicted to Exercising Authority”
    deceive folks into believing these corrupt Leaders have – “The Anointing.”

    Mat 24:5 KJV
    For many shall come in my name, saying, I am *Christ; (*Christ = Gr. – Cristos = anointed)
    and shall deceive many.

    AAAARRRGGGHHHHH – Bah – Humbug.

    What they really have is – “The Annoying-ton.” 😉

    Jesus is – The Christ – The Anointed. Praaaiiiissssseeee you Jesus.

    Mark 8:29 KJV
    And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
    And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the *Christ. (*Christ = The Anointed.)

    Jesus said…
    He is the “ONE” Teacher. Mat 23:8 NASB
    He is the “ONE” Leader. Mat 23:10 NASB
    He is the “ONE” Shepherd. John 10:16 KJV

    Why isn’t Jesus enough?

    And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
    them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
    and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
    John 10:16

    One Voice – One Fold – One Shepherd

    {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}

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