today it occurred to me just how very needy the human race is … from kings and politicians on down to brian’s clients we are in a desperate condition … we need Christ … i confess that i don’t often think about how desperately needy the race of man is, no matter how smart and powerful … i’m really convicted lately about how much easier it is to hate (or even pontificate 🙄 ) than it is to grieve … would the Church be as misunderstood and misinterpreted if we grieved more?
consider my above question rhetorical and applied to me only – just “thinking” out loud as i drank my coffee – don’t let me kill another blog today … 🙂
In the spirit of Open Blogging (in a socialist society):
Did the math (it was not trivial) and determined that for this wage earner with non-wage earning spouse, Social Security and Medicare benefits will be about equal to what has been put in, if we live to about 84.
PP Vet, I don’t think there will be an Social Security by the time me and my wife get there. It’s a giant Ponzi Scheme. We’ll have blown that thing up by then.
Been reading the Apocryphal writings today. Interesting stuff. Don’t know why some didn’t make it into the Canon, while other texts did. Seems a bit arbitrary.
which apocryphal writings? The East and West might differ on a few details. Some works that are apocryphal could be considered second-level or third-level in canonicity (in some canons but not others) and some apocryphal writings never made it into any canon of any kind (like the books of Enoch, at least one of which is alluded to by Jude
The Apocrypha is a particular set of writings from the period between the 2 testaments. Now there are other writings, outside the Apocrypha – such as the pseudepigrapha and a couple of other classifications.
I went to a surprise birthday party for one of my neighbours. A venue I would have never gone to a few years ago, but tonight I had so many opportunities to share the love of Christ and our need for Him. Thank you Michael for the encouragement you have given us to step out of our comfort zones and reach out to a dying world…reach out in ways I had not done so before.
The gent who coordinated the Orange County Community Scholar Program, for which I do event sound & recording, was excited about having me hear her since I am one of the non-Jews who supports the org, and I wasn’t at all disappointed. The book is a great resource, full of insights which deepen our understanding of what was a very transitional set of documents as the followers of Jesus gradually formed the thing we now call “Christianity”, and how Jews understand our sacred texts.
You can also download a podcast I created from her guest lecture at Christ Our Redeemer Church in Irvine, which is free for the download at iTunes.
Log into iTunes, Mac or PC version,
select “podcasts”,
search for “OCCSP Amy Jill Levine”,
download to your computer, iTunes does the rest.
Sync the lecture to your iPod, iPhone (sorry, don’t know what next to do if your device isn’t Apple).
The entire OCCSP podcast series is a project I have been working on for the past few years and I have found every lecture enlightening, even as a hope-to-be mensch.
Yes Em I did factor inflation. Lots of details, and figures are not exact – but having someone who did not work (spouse) or pay into the system, but who gets all the Medicare and half the Soc Sec of the working spouse makes the numbers look a lot better for a married couple.
Just heard on CNN that Americans take 80% of the world’s painkillers. Not sure how that relates to Social Security though. 🙂
understood, MLD–maybe Alex is reading Tobit or Judith or Bel and the Dragon or Greek Esther but maybe he’s reading 1 Enoch. Deuterocanonicals seem to differ enough from east and west I didn’t want to just assume the standard western Apocrypha too soon.
MLD said, “Alex, You will have to ask the Jews why the Apocrypha didn’t make it into their Bible – it has nothing to do with the NT.”
Ya, um, the dude you are a disciple of and the dude whose denomination you’ve pledged allegiance to included the Apocrypha in his bible in 1534, just sayin’ 😉
Alex,
I know it would require that you read a book or something and not just get everything off the internet – but Luther put the Apocrypha right where it belonged, between the 2 testaments with heavy notations on how it should be used. (so it was not NT canon – which you were questioning.)
But the point was that the Apocrypha is not NT canon – they are Jewish writings and the Jews made the decision long before the NT.
btw, the link I gave you to the Apocrypha study edition is a Lutheran publication – we don’t run from the Apocrypha like most evangelicals do..
Well, I suppose you would toss all study Bibles – those writing aren’t holy scripture. Luther translated it, which I am sure no one from your church has ever done and put it in the German Bible. It’s not in any Lutheran Bible today.
But look as Lutherans we read all kinds of stuff and are not just stuck with Joel Osteen and Rick Warren books like evangelicals. Rick Warren knows that you miss his writings after selling 60 million copies, he is re releasing it for folks like you.
I have been on and off with them for about 4 years – actually I find them quite cultish … but when I quote scripture to them, I always use the KJV so they don’t blow me off because of translation.
MLD, what part of “Don’t know why some didn’t make it into the Canon, while other texts did. Seems a bit arbitrary.” do you not understand? Do I need to translate it into thick-headed old man for you?
Canon. (see that round little dot to the left, it’s a period).
you keep interjecting “NT Canon” and “OT Canon” when I clearly stated “Canon” and Canon is Scripture that is considered Authoritative. Several Christian groups under the umbrella of what is considered orthodoxy include Apocrypha in their “Canon”, while Evangelicals don’t which is why i stated:
“Don’t know why some didn’t make it into the Canon, while other texts did. Seems a bit arbitrary.”
jtk,
You will probably do better to google, but the best I can figure is that the dispensation of Grace began with Paul in Acts 9. Everything before that is of a different dispensation. They do away with the Jewish church and the 12 disciples, as a previous work of God.
All of the ones I have run into are KJV Only advocates.
my Sunday afternoon was sooo slow … it was slower than the PhxP blog site … it was so slow 😎 that i got out the car wax and waxed my 15 year old washer and dryer (thanking God for them and praying that they keep on keeping on)
Today was the start of the church year and of course, the first Sunday in Advent. Here’s an Advent prayer:
O Lord of glory and God over all, blessed forever, to You I give heartfelt thanks, both for all your great and indescribable blessings, and also for this: that out of love beyond measure You descended from the throne of Your divine majesty to us poor mortals in this valley of sorrows, in order to preserve us lost and condemned sinners from the pit that has no water.
I praise You, O Jesus, King of Glory, with all my strength and energies, that You came on this earth only for this purpose: to deliver us from our enemies, from sin, death, hell and the devil, and with Your holy blood to effect an eternal reconciliation between Your Heavenly Father and us,and by Your precious merits to regain for us our lost righteousness.
Hosanna, O Lord, save now, O Lord, send now prosperity! Amen
— Book of Family Prayer,Evangelical Lutheran Synod
It’s all yours today.
Good morning beautiful blog family =)
Yes, good morning beautiful blog family.
and good morning MLD
🙂
Music is up for the week. Drop by. Listen. Relax. Be blessed.
http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2012/11/30/praise-worship-november-30th-2012/
an enjoyable way for me to visit PhxP on Saturday is to read the threads with some of Erunner’s song list playing while i read – thank you E
today it occurred to me just how very needy the human race is … from kings and politicians on down to brian’s clients we are in a desperate condition … we need Christ … i confess that i don’t often think about how desperately needy the race of man is, no matter how smart and powerful … i’m really convicted lately about how much easier it is to hate (or even pontificate 🙄 ) than it is to grieve … would the Church be as misunderstood and misinterpreted if we grieved more?
consider my above question rhetorical and applied to me only – just “thinking” out loud as i drank my coffee – don’t let me kill another blog today … 🙂
In the spirit of Open Blogging (in a socialist society):
Did the math (it was not trivial) and determined that for this wage earner with non-wage earning spouse, Social Security and Medicare benefits will be about equal to what has been put in, if we live to about 84.
PP Vet, I don’t think there will be an Social Security by the time me and my wife get there. It’s a giant Ponzi Scheme. We’ll have blown that thing up by then.
Been reading the Apocryphal writings today. Interesting stuff. Don’t know why some didn’t make it into the Canon, while other texts did. Seems a bit arbitrary.
Alex,
Here is the way to read the Apocrypha – it’s set up just like a study Bible
http://www.cph.org/p-19305-the-apocrypha-the-lutheran-edition-with-notes.aspx?SearchTerm=Apocrypha
Click on the “Look inside” link
PP Vet, did you factor in the inflation component? … the only windfall on that one is folks with 30 yr. mtg.’s in progress
Alex, You will have to ask the Jews why the Apocrypha didn’t make it into their Bible – it has nothing to do with the NT.
which apocryphal writings? The East and West might differ on a few details. Some works that are apocryphal could be considered second-level or third-level in canonicity (in some canons but not others) and some apocryphal writings never made it into any canon of any kind (like the books of Enoch, at least one of which is alluded to by Jude
The Apocrypha is a particular set of writings from the period between the 2 testaments. Now there are other writings, outside the Apocrypha – such as the pseudepigrapha and a couple of other classifications.
I went to a surprise birthday party for one of my neighbours. A venue I would have never gone to a few years ago, but tonight I had so many opportunities to share the love of Christ and our need for Him. Thank you Michael for the encouragement you have given us to step out of our comfort zones and reach out to a dying world…reach out in ways I had not done so before.
Nonnie,
You rock!
Alex, and all
If you’re exploring some new reading material, I had the privilege of meeting one of the editors of The Jewish Annotated New Testament
http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Annotated-New-Testament/dp/0195297709
Amy Jill Levine
https://www.google.com/search?q=amy+jill+levine&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-beta
The gent who coordinated the Orange County Community Scholar Program, for which I do event sound & recording, was excited about having me hear her since I am one of the non-Jews who supports the org, and I wasn’t at all disappointed. The book is a great resource, full of insights which deepen our understanding of what was a very transitional set of documents as the followers of Jesus gradually formed the thing we now call “Christianity”, and how Jews understand our sacred texts.
You can also download a podcast I created from her guest lecture at Christ Our Redeemer Church in Irvine, which is free for the download at iTunes.
Log into iTunes, Mac or PC version,
select “podcasts”,
search for “OCCSP Amy Jill Levine”,
download to your computer, iTunes does the rest.
Sync the lecture to your iPod, iPhone (sorry, don’t know what next to do if your device isn’t Apple).
The entire OCCSP podcast series is a project I have been working on for the past few years and I have found every lecture enlightening, even as a hope-to-be mensch.
Yes Em I did factor inflation. Lots of details, and figures are not exact – but having someone who did not work (spouse) or pay into the system, but who gets all the Medicare and half the Soc Sec of the working spouse makes the numbers look a lot better for a married couple.
Just heard on CNN that Americans take 80% of the world’s painkillers. Not sure how that relates to Social Security though. 🙂
“Hope-to-be mensch” good word
understood, MLD–maybe Alex is reading Tobit or Judith or Bel and the Dragon or Greek Esther but maybe he’s reading 1 Enoch. Deuterocanonicals seem to differ enough from east and west I didn’t want to just assume the standard western Apocrypha too soon.
Wenatchee, I LOVE the book of Enoch, The Watchers is awesome.
Thanks G, I’ll check it out.
MLD (Martin Luther’s Disciple): The Apocrypha was in Luther’s Bible in 1534
MLD said, “Alex, You will have to ask the Jews why the Apocrypha didn’t make it into their Bible – it has nothing to do with the NT.”
Ya, um, the dude you are a disciple of and the dude whose denomination you’ve pledged allegiance to included the Apocrypha in his bible in 1534, just sayin’ 😉
…nice try though. bonus points for effort.
Bel and the Dragon is pretty interesting. An account of a Dragon (Dinosaur?) always cool.
Alex,
I know it would require that you read a book or something and not just get everything off the internet – but Luther put the Apocrypha right where it belonged, between the 2 testaments with heavy notations on how it should be used. (so it was not NT canon – which you were questioning.)
But the point was that the Apocrypha is not NT canon – they are Jewish writings and the Jews made the decision long before the NT.
btw, the link I gave you to the Apocrypha study edition is a Lutheran publication – we don’t run from the Apocrypha like most evangelicals do..
I never said it “was” NT Canon, I said and I quote “Don’t know why some didn’t make it into the Canon, while other texts did. Seems a bit arbitrary.”
Do any other groups under Christian orthodoxy have any apocryphal writings in their Canon? Want me to answer that for you? 🙂
Well, I suppose you would toss all study Bibles – those writing aren’t holy scripture. Luther translated it, which I am sure no one from your church has ever done and put it in the German Bible. It’s not in any Lutheran Bible today.
But look as Lutherans we read all kinds of stuff and are not just stuck with Joel Osteen and Rick Warren books like evangelicals. Rick Warren knows that you miss his writings after selling 60 million copies, he is re releasing it for folks like you.
little hint: Council of Trent and Synod of Jerusalem and Canon
And, if you studied the issue, you would know that the OT canon was closed with the book of Nehemiah – so there was no openings left for new books
The King James Bible originally included the Apocrypha
Only evangelicals are Apocryphobic
Speaking of the KJV, I have been having long FB conversations with some Mid Acts Dispensationalists – anyone else here ever run into these folks?
not a big fan of Rick Warren’s literature. though, it’s much better written than “A Common Miracle” and not nearly as fictional.
MLD,
I have…and it’s not worth wasting your time.
Another bunch in love with their uniqueness.
Michael, I think I made them mad, after they spent so much time explaining, I told them that Paul was their big NT event, while mine was Jesus.
I have been on and off with them for about 4 years – actually I find them quite cultish … but when I quote scripture to them, I always use the KJV so they don’t blow me off because of translation.
MLD,
That’s a true statement!
I saw you get started with them and ran away… 🙂
MLD, what part of “Don’t know why some didn’t make it into the Canon, while other texts did. Seems a bit arbitrary.” do you not understand? Do I need to translate it into thick-headed old man for you?
Canon. (see that round little dot to the left, it’s a period).
you keep interjecting “NT Canon” and “OT Canon” when I clearly stated “Canon” and Canon is Scripture that is considered Authoritative. Several Christian groups under the umbrella of what is considered orthodoxy include Apocrypha in their “Canon”, while Evangelicals don’t which is why i stated:
“Don’t know why some didn’t make it into the Canon, while other texts did. Seems a bit arbitrary.”
make sense now?
MLD said, “Alex,
I know it would require that you read a book or something”
I would appreciate it if you refrained from those types of back-handed insults to my intelligence, when clearly you have trouble processing things.
“Mid Acts Dispensationalists”
Tell me more, MLD
Sounds interesting
jtk,
You will probably do better to google, but the best I can figure is that the dispensation of Grace began with Paul in Acts 9. Everything before that is of a different dispensation. They do away with the Jewish church and the 12 disciples, as a previous work of God.
All of the ones I have run into are KJV Only advocates.
Alex – no backhand attempt intended, that was full frontal.
Look I take your “old man” comments without whining. Toughen up a bit..
MLD said, “Alex – no backhand attempt intended, that was full frontal.
Look I take your “old man” comments without whining. Toughen up a bit..”
LOL, fair enough. Now that’s more like it. No ‘banning’ required.
“No ‘banning’ required.”
Agreed, Ray-Ban for everyone!
http://www.ray-ban.com/usa/sunstore
my Sunday afternoon was sooo slow … it was slower than the PhxP blog site … it was so slow 😎 that i got out the car wax and waxed my 15 year old washer and dryer (thanking God for them and praying that they keep on keeping on)
Today was the start of the church year and of course, the first Sunday in Advent. Here’s an Advent prayer:
O Lord of glory and God over all, blessed forever, to You I give heartfelt thanks, both for all your great and indescribable blessings, and also for this: that out of love beyond measure You descended from the throne of Your divine majesty to us poor mortals in this valley of sorrows, in order to preserve us lost and condemned sinners from the pit that has no water.
I praise You, O Jesus, King of Glory, with all my strength and energies, that You came on this earth only for this purpose: to deliver us from our enemies, from sin, death, hell and the devil, and with Your holy blood to effect an eternal reconciliation between Your Heavenly Father and us,and by Your precious merits to regain for us our lost righteousness.
Hosanna, O Lord, save now, O Lord, send now prosperity! Amen
— Book of Family Prayer,Evangelical Lutheran Synod