I spent a great deal of time yesterday reviewing the effect that various traumas have had on my life and the lives of others I know.
This…after spending years secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) believing that “trauma” was the most over used term in modern language.
The result of the fall of man is so profoundly devastating to the flourishing of man…and all the results of the fall make a clean and tidy soteriology impossible and an affront to the grace and goodness of God.
How we think and what we think and believe is shaped far more by “sin” and the sinful actions of others than we imagine…add in any sort of mental illness and the idea that humans are responsible for “choosing God” becomes one fraught with all manner of complications.
I have made some horrible choices in life….often influenced by the horrible choices others made.
Michael,
I believe sin causes the trauma we experience. Our response to trauma can lead to more sin or trusting God to use it as a positive, although difficult, influence in our lives (I’m thinking about Joseph in Egypt, Esther, Jeremiah, Paul, etc). About 20 years ago I froze emotionally as all my own trauma (family violence/addiction, plus violence experienced while I was overseas) just engulfed me. I got therapy ( with a Christian, processed-still need to do that sometimes) and realized God had used it, and would continue to use it, if I was willing. I’ve learned to set healthy boundaries and I no longer have guilt over that. I pour myself into my passions, and I know it’s okay to not always answer the phone or a text. A healthy relationship with God us my priority and as zi love Him I can love others, even those wh o hurt me.
There’s many examples of non-believers overcoming trauma and living very positive lives. But, as Christians, I think we get a special opportunity to see our trauma used in a positive way for His purposes.
Michael, not arguing, but an honest question: Since Romans 8:1 says there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, wouldn’t the opposite also be true?
I don’t blame my mom with dementia for the things she says or does…and all of us have some sort of mental or spiritual dementia from living in a fallen world…how much does God hold us responsible for the wounds we carry that affect our beliefs?
“how much does God hold us responsible for the wounds we carry that affect our beliefs?”
We may not be able to arrive at a consensus on the details, but I hope all Christians can agree one this: God is perfectly just in all his judgments. I wish that agreement amongst Christians could reach a deeper level, but not apparently in this fallen world. So, we can celebrate the few things where agreement can be found and pray that God would heal the divisions. One day, the Last Day, the current divisions will certainly be replaced by perfect harmony.
I don’t post often, but I just want to say ‘Amen’ to this. My husband’s father was killed in a terrible car accident when my husband was only 8 years old. His father was a passenger carpooling to work in the aerospace industry ( not driving) when the car he was in was hit by a cement truck. He was DOA at the hospital. This being the early sixties, my husband as an 8- year-old with severe trauma never received any grief counseling or professional help dealing with his terrible loss. A few years later his mother remarried and my husband’s stepfather was abusive to both my husband and his younger sister. When I met my husband he was a Christian and when we married I thought I would have a blessed, fairy tale Christian marriage ( I was ‘equally yoked!), but because of my husband’s trauma as a young child, it has been an extremely difficult marriage. I’ve been married to him for close to 40 years, but even with marriage counseling, Church and professional, the marriage has been a marriage full of painful difficulties My husband’s childhood wounds are so deep that it seems that change is impossible for him – he was so young that his brain chemistry was altered and it resulted in a sort of permanent PTSD that is triggered under stress. If I weren’t a Christian, I know I wouldn’t, I couldn’t, still be married to him. I have had to be the strength, the backbone, in the most difficult periods of our marriage because my husband falls apart and checks out ( disassociates) when life becomes difficult. I truly am a ‘Bride of Christ’ because Christ has been the only one I could ever truly rely on in my life. That said, I have wondered many times how a loving God could allow such horror to befall the innocent little boy that my husband once was as a child. My husband was given too much to bear at too young an age. I know that in God’s great plan, I was a piece in the puzzle, because I chose to stay with my husband and he considers himself very lucky to be married to me. I think that we all ive in a very broken, very evil, world. It is only the ordinary sacrificial love of ordinary Christians that keeps this world from being so much worse than it could be. We are like the boy with his finger in the dam, keeping the flood of evil from overcoming . I taught Special Education in the public schools for 30 years and, and I have no doubt that the Christian love I gave my students, along with my ceaseless striving to educate them, has also made an inherently evil world a little bit better. We have to know that even our smallest efforts matter, if done in the name of Christ.
Your post here caught my eye because I too am married to someone with PTSD. My wife has several events in her life that induced PTSD in her. She’s been prayed over, anointed, hospitalized, berated, medicated and counseled, and yet still it runs through her like a virus in a computer.
Long story short, I have a tough marriage too, and there are days I don’t know I can hold on. I’m not always “Christ-like” with her. She’s the best woman I could have married, but it’s not easy.
Eric Metaxasu You may be a!Kong those who diislike/hate our Christian God. However, read John 3:16,17. Or read Eric Meta as’ arguments for scientific proof of God “Evidence that demands a Verdict! “
Yes, CK, E
“Evidence….” was written by Josh MC Dowell. My point was that “Eric Metaxas” has concluded from science that there has to be a God! Not necessarily ours, however.
Something that has always perplexed me is Romans 9. It poses several questions for me—
In the first 13 verses Paul lines out the doctrine of divine election, human will, God’s justice, human blame, and God’s sovereignty. He uses the examples of Abraham and Sarah and Rebekah and Isaac and how before their children were born God determined their role in relationship to the plan of God.
So, what is Paul saying, that he elects people to be saved?
That Israel was the elect, served a function (producing a Messiah) or,
That God initially chose Israel and later, included the gentiles in his plan of salvation.
If Paul is saying some are elected before birth to be saved and others not, then how Do we understand Paul’s quotation of Joel in CH. 10:13. “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved“
Not saying I agree with this, but some dyed-in-the-wool Calvinists would say that the only ones who can truly call on the name of the Lord are the elect.
Michael
Yeah. I’m still wrestling with the passage to try and understand who the elect are. So many passages (even Paul who wrote Romans) seems to contradict his own theology (if he is referencing a limited amount of privileged people cull out of a sea of depraved humans for salvation).
It’s all yours today…
I spent a great deal of time yesterday reviewing the effect that various traumas have had on my life and the lives of others I know.
This…after spending years secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) believing that “trauma” was the most over used term in modern language.
The result of the fall of man is so profoundly devastating to the flourishing of man…and all the results of the fall make a clean and tidy soteriology impossible and an affront to the grace and goodness of God.
How we think and what we think and believe is shaped far more by “sin” and the sinful actions of others than we imagine…add in any sort of mental illness and the idea that humans are responsible for “choosing God” becomes one fraught with all manner of complications.
I have made some horrible choices in life….often influenced by the horrible choices others made.
I suspect He takes all of us…at least I hope so…
Michael,
I believe sin causes the trauma we experience. Our response to trauma can lead to more sin or trusting God to use it as a positive, although difficult, influence in our lives (I’m thinking about Joseph in Egypt, Esther, Jeremiah, Paul, etc). About 20 years ago I froze emotionally as all my own trauma (family violence/addiction, plus violence experienced while I was overseas) just engulfed me. I got therapy ( with a Christian, processed-still need to do that sometimes) and realized God had used it, and would continue to use it, if I was willing. I’ve learned to set healthy boundaries and I no longer have guilt over that. I pour myself into my passions, and I know it’s okay to not always answer the phone or a text. A healthy relationship with God us my priority and as zi love Him I can love others, even those wh o hurt me.
Linn,
There is truth to that…but I wonder why some find a measure of healing in God and others don’t even acknowledge Him.
I’m having a hard time condemning the “lost” when so many have been traumatized beyond the point of wanting to be found…
There’s many examples of non-believers overcoming trauma and living very positive lives. But, as Christians, I think we get a special opportunity to see our trauma used in a positive way for His purposes.
Linn,
To be honest, all my trauma did was fuel sin that I’m still paying for decades later.
If there is a holy purpose behind it, I won’t know in this life…
Nowhere in the Bible are we instructed to condemn the lost but rather to love them
Greg,
Let me clarify…I’m not condemning anyone, but tradition says they are condemned by God.
Tradition?
Sorry, I’m multitasking…the traditional teaching of the church is that many will go to hell for unbelief…I challenge that, but not today…
Michael, not arguing, but an honest question: Since Romans 8:1 says there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, wouldn’t the opposite also be true?
CK,
Understood…I understand the theology…but there is a layer to it that I can’t resolve…
Michael, that’s fair. BTW, I wasn’t implying a lack of theological understanding on your part. I know better.
CK,
No offense taken…just thinking out loud here.
I don’t blame my mom with dementia for the things she says or does…and all of us have some sort of mental or spiritual dementia from living in a fallen world…how much does God hold us responsible for the wounds we carry that affect our beliefs?
“how much does God hold us responsible for the wounds we carry that affect our beliefs?”
We may not be able to arrive at a consensus on the details, but I hope all Christians can agree one this: God is perfectly just in all his judgments. I wish that agreement amongst Christians could reach a deeper level, but not apparently in this fallen world. So, we can celebrate the few things where agreement can be found and pray that God would heal the divisions. One day, the Last Day, the current divisions will certainly be replaced by perfect harmony.
I don’t post often, but I just want to say ‘Amen’ to this. My husband’s father was killed in a terrible car accident when my husband was only 8 years old. His father was a passenger carpooling to work in the aerospace industry ( not driving) when the car he was in was hit by a cement truck. He was DOA at the hospital. This being the early sixties, my husband as an 8- year-old with severe trauma never received any grief counseling or professional help dealing with his terrible loss. A few years later his mother remarried and my husband’s stepfather was abusive to both my husband and his younger sister. When I met my husband he was a Christian and when we married I thought I would have a blessed, fairy tale Christian marriage ( I was ‘equally yoked!), but because of my husband’s trauma as a young child, it has been an extremely difficult marriage. I’ve been married to him for close to 40 years, but even with marriage counseling, Church and professional, the marriage has been a marriage full of painful difficulties My husband’s childhood wounds are so deep that it seems that change is impossible for him – he was so young that his brain chemistry was altered and it resulted in a sort of permanent PTSD that is triggered under stress. If I weren’t a Christian, I know I wouldn’t, I couldn’t, still be married to him. I have had to be the strength, the backbone, in the most difficult periods of our marriage because my husband falls apart and checks out ( disassociates) when life becomes difficult. I truly am a ‘Bride of Christ’ because Christ has been the only one I could ever truly rely on in my life. That said, I have wondered many times how a loving God could allow such horror to befall the innocent little boy that my husband once was as a child. My husband was given too much to bear at too young an age. I know that in God’s great plan, I was a piece in the puzzle, because I chose to stay with my husband and he considers himself very lucky to be married to me. I think that we all ive in a very broken, very evil, world. It is only the ordinary sacrificial love of ordinary Christians that keeps this world from being so much worse than it could be. We are like the boy with his finger in the dam, keeping the flood of evil from overcoming . I taught Special Education in the public schools for 30 years and, and I have no doubt that the Christian love I gave my students, along with my ceaseless striving to educate them, has also made an inherently evil world a little bit better. We have to know that even our smallest efforts matter, if done in the name of Christ.
BrideofChrist, you deserve congratulations from the rest of us.
God keep you close and strong! 🙏
BoC,
Your post here caught my eye because I too am married to someone with PTSD. My wife has several events in her life that induced PTSD in her. She’s been prayed over, anointed, hospitalized, berated, medicated and counseled, and yet still it runs through her like a virus in a computer.
Long story short, I have a tough marriage too, and there are days I don’t know I can hold on. I’m not always “Christ-like” with her. She’s the best woman I could have married, but it’s not easy.
You, too, Dan from Georgia
God keep you, also, close and strong
Eric Metaxasu You may be a!Kong those who diislike/hate our Christian God. However, read John 3:16,17. Or read Eric Meta as’ arguments for scientific proof of God “Evidence that demands a Verdict! “
Em, forgive me, but I’m not quite sure what you’re saying. By the way, Evidence… was written by Josh McDowell.
Bride and Dan, God bless and strengthen you both.
Thanks Em and Captain Kevin. Blessings to you both.
Yes, CK, E
“Evidence….” was written by Josh MC Dowell. My point was that “Eric Metaxas” has concluded from science that there has to be a God! Not necessarily ours, however.
Something that has always perplexed me is Romans 9. It poses several questions for me—
In the first 13 verses Paul lines out the doctrine of divine election, human will, God’s justice, human blame, and God’s sovereignty. He uses the examples of Abraham and Sarah and Rebekah and Isaac and how before their children were born God determined their role in relationship to the plan of God.
So, what is Paul saying, that he elects people to be saved?
That Israel was the elect, served a function (producing a Messiah) or,
That God initially chose Israel and later, included the gentiles in his plan of salvation.
If Paul is saying some are elected before birth to be saved and others not, then how Do we understand Paul’s quotation of Joel in CH. 10:13. “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved“
Hoppy,
Romans 9 is certainly a brain teaser.
Not saying I agree with this, but some dyed-in-the-wool Calvinists would say that the only ones who can truly call on the name of the Lord are the elect.
Romans 9 is easy as long as you choose between Arminian or Calvinism…and believe that the passage is about individual election.
You just choose one.
I now reject both…it’s a story of corporate election in Christ tracing the story through Gods history with Israel.
Captain
Yea…it is
Michael
Yeah. I’m still wrestling with the passage to try and understand who the elect are. So many passages (even Paul who wrote Romans) seems to contradict his own theology (if he is referencing a limited amount of privileged people cull out of a sea of depraved humans for salvation).
Anything you have learned would be appreciated
N.T.Wrights little commentary on Romans is excellent much easier than others who hold similar views
https://amzn.to/3CVqcVY
I listened to an audio clip but Wright (after you recommended him). Interesting take on Romans 9 and election. Gave me some things to think about.
Audio clip of nt wright