Things I Think…

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18 Responses

  1. Linn says:

    Michael,
    3 and 5-starting with myself! Reaching out to that one new or unconnected person at church can make a difference for both of us.
    And, I am fervently praying that the Supreme Court will make it impossible for Trump to run for office. There, I said it!

  2. Michael says:

    Linn,

    That would be answered prayer…maybe we could find a new normal if they did.
    If not, we will be sanctified by the fire… 🙂

  3. Linn says:

    Michael,

    Agreed. I’m old enough to remember Watergate (kids who spend the summer in bed due to hip surgery watch hearings), and I was appalled at the length of deception Nixon went to. But Trump’s wrongdoings far surpassed that, and he’s talking about doing worse if re-elected. 🙁

  4. Dan from Georgia says:

    Amen to #8 especially!

  5. Tim says:

    I have to admit I’m a bit puzzled by the oft-repeated criticisms of Christians who vote for Trump. As if a born-again believer is a hypocrite for voting for a man known to be vile and anti-biblical in many ways. (And there is no question that Trump is vile, narcissistic, and anti-biblical in all sorts of ways!)

    Were it up to me, Trump would not be the Republican nominee and someone like Ron DeSantis would be the winner of the nomination. (No one is perfect, I know…but RDS seems to be best of the bunch that have been put forth.) Yet even if Trump wins the nomination and once again goes head-to-head with Biden, I will vote for Trump without hesitation and without any worry to my Christian witness.

    Why? Because (like it or not) Americans are offered a binary choice. If both sides present evil choices, then I at least want competent evil that makes policy decisions that sometimes align with a Biblical worldview, as opposed to an incompetent evil that is destroying this country.

    I do not relish making a choice between two evils. But realistically, that is what I believe is presented to us.

    In any case, I don’t anticipate changing minds on this issue. I just thought I’d present another point of view.

  6. Michael says:

    Tim,

    There is a scenario where I could understand voting for someone who is notoriously sinful based on policy choices

    What I cannot and will not accept is baptizing an evil, unsaved man for the sake of political gain.

    Choosing between two evils is indeed an American choice…but it is not necessarily an acceptable choice for a believer..
    We have the choice not to choose at all.

  7. Kevin H says:

    Tim,

    I have never been one to condemn those Christians who have voted for Trump, even though I have admitted it is increasingly harder not to do so going forward with as much as we have now seen Trump act in his depravity, especially in his attempt to overturn a lawful election and the democracy that is foundational to our country, while all along rallying many to his evil and destructive cause. Rather as Michael said, my far greater concern has always been with the many Christians who have essentially “baptized an evil, unsaved man for the sake of political gain”.

    I do believe there were quite a few things in your statement that belie your own reasoning and/or display an exaggerated partiality in your point of view.

    First, one would think they would rather have an “incompetent” evil in charge instead of a “competent” evil. An incompetent person will have trouble accomplishing their goals due to their incompetence. Thus, if evil is their goal, they will have more trouble accomplishing it. However, a competent evil person will be much more successful in achieving their goals, thus more evil will be accomplished in the end.

    Second, it seems to be that you’re inferring that one side sometimes aligns with a “Biblical worldview” while the other side seemingly doesn’t ever so. That would be a partisan view that speaks too strongly.

    Lastly you speak to the incompetent evil (assumingly Biden and the Democrats) as destroying the country, seemingly as a contrast to the evil on the other side. Again, that appears to be an exaggerated partisan view considering all the divisive and harmful things that Trump and the Republicans have taken us through the last several years, once again especially the false and deceptive claims of a stolen election.

  8. Reuben says:

    I was once told there was no possible way I could be saved if I voted for someone who supports abortion.

    So be it, I guess.

  9. Muff Potter says:

    Reuben,
    Aren’t you glad that they (the ones who told you) won’t have a gall-dang thing to say about it on judgement day?

  10. Reuben says:

    Muff,

    Sure hoping that’s the case! Haha!

  11. Tim says:

    Kevin –
    I would condemn the Trump-followers more for their claims of a stolen election, if the Democrats hadn’t also consistently claimed elections have been stolen every time a Republican has won since GW Bush. Is it bias on my part? Sure, but your bias is obvious as well.

    We all have political biases. Claims or insinuations to the contrary are dishonest.

  12. Kevin H says:

    Tim,

    Yes, I have my own biases, and even as I try to be mindful of them in my own writings and conversations, it is impossible to totally neutralize them.

    Would you believe however, as to political ideals and policies, my biases have actually always, and still do lean more conservative and Republican (at least what was long traditionally conservative and Republican, not the many ways they have changed over the last several years)?

    As for claims of a stolen election, yes, there have been pockets of Democrats that have claimed stolen elections over past elections. But one must admit, comparing those claims to the ferocity, belligerence, extensiveness, and democracy-damage of the claims made by Trump and his followers is like trying to claim some kind of equivalence between a mountain and a molehill.

  13. Tim says:

    Hi Kevin –
    Just to wrap a bow on this and answer your question:

    (1) Yes, I believe you still lean conservative. Never doubted that.
    (2) No, I disagree. The vehemence of past Democrat objections is just as vehement as anything seen by Trump. Video evidence is abundant on this matter.

    Blessings to you.

  14. Reuben says:

    Tim,

    I am well past left, as we know, and I saw the election deniers on the left in years gone by, but to the point of insurrection, nah. To the point of calling for the hanging of political figures, nah. Just nah. Overthrowing the federal government was not really the agenda of the left. Not really of the extreme left either.

    It’s easy to throw up videos of whack job people shouting about revolution and overthrowing the government, but what happened January 6 was something the whole planet saw, live, in color with sound and everything, including the speech. It was as if we had turned into a 3rd world country that doesn’t even have elections. It was a disgrace. And the right immediately claimed it was Antifa who staged the whole thing. The denial was emotional with this one, and way over the line of rational.

  15. Michael says:

    Reuben,

    I agree…

  16. Jean says:

    I agree with Reuben also.

  17. Captain Kevin says:

    Reuben, exactly.

  18. Muff Potter says:

    “There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.”

    — Liz Cheney to the Republican controlled House
    which refused to even censor Donald Trump for 6th Jan riot —

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