Where Did the Power Go?

odenfong says:

He never left, but is ignored.

Tim says:

Amen to Oden’s thought. When born-again Christians stop seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit, it’s no surprise that we don’t see more of what was written about in the NT.

One other thought here as well that I’ve often considered.

I know the version of the Great Commission given in Mark is a disputed passage. I personally believe it’s canon, but put that aside for a moment. In that passage, Jesus links the workings of miracles with the preaching of the gospel. vs. 17: “And these signs will follow those who believe…”

Could it be we don’t see more manifestations of the power of the Holy Spirit because the Church (by and large) has pushed basic evangelism to the background? Instead of gospel preaching, we find programs & all sorts of stuff to take it’s place.

Something to chew on.

Michael says:

Oden,

Are you experiencing the same types of healings as the early church?
Are they verifiable healings?

You’ve been holding out on us. 🙂

Not Alone says:

Those things were happening before the Holy Spirit came to us. Maybe it became more selective after He came.

Bob Middleton says:

I still think it’s here, but the manifestation is different in different areas. I believe the power of The Spirit was to validate ministry, which Paul talked about 1 Cor 2. In most areas of the USA manifestations of “Power” attract Simon the sorcerer types more than validate the preaching of the Gospel. The validity of the Christian message isn’t in question as much now as the validity of the Christian messenger, which needs a display of another type of power, the power of moral transformation.

Michael says:

Xenia,

Old I know about…tell us about new.

Michael says:

fil,

Excellent point…I still think we should be experiencing both.

I might be wrong.. 🙂

Xenia says:

I have to leave in a few minutes for the morning, but one story comes to mind from the Soviet Gulag era, the story of Fr. Averky, who was imprisoned for his faith. On one occasion Fr. Averky and a fellow prisoner, a young man, were put in a special punishment cell, which was a very small metal box with no heating, outside in the -30 degree winter weather, for several days. When the guard opened the box he expected them both to be dead (frozen solid) but instead they were fine. They had spent the time in heaven, turns out. Fr. Averky was an extremely humble, righteous older man who made himself a servant of everyone in his barracks, including the sadistic guards and inmates. I think God is more likely to perform miracles on behalf of people like this. If that’s the case, there’s probably plenty of miracles that still happen but we never hear about them because God uses quiet, simple, humble people who the world does not know about.

There’s a lot of stories (how verifiable they are, I can’t tell) about miraculous occurrences among believers under the Communist Yoke. And I know a few local stories, but again, I don’t know if they have been verified. These things don’t happen up on a stage, they are more likely to happen in private, when a person is praying. And many of them involve the intercessory prayer of Saints, which I know most of you would reject.

Michael says:

fil,

I know how I would have answered a couple of years ago.

Today I’m on a mission to read the text and teach the text as it is, not as how it’s been explained to me.

Having said that…it seems that God puts a premium on believing…on faith.

I haven’t worked it all out yet, but sometimes I wonder if we have pulled the plug ourselves then denied there is a light socket…

filbertz says:

additionally there is the nature of the ‘audience.’ We tend to dismiss an anecdotal experience because it may not hold up to the scrutiny of a variety of tests. Even your question of Oden about healings being verifiable indicates we live in a society whose standards of skepticism and ‘truth’ are stringent. Even the blind man who was healed by Jesus struggled to convince the pharisees, but that didn’t negate the reality of his new vision. Perhaps a healing only needs to be real to the recipient. When God directly spoke to me, no one else heard, no one else was effected, and most never believed my testemony, but that doesn’t negate the fact that He saved me from significant injury because I heeded His warning.

jlo says:

I personally know two people who have the gift of healing, and have witnessed first and second hand miracles of God, brought about through them. Neither of them would say they have the gift of healing, but that God used them in specific situations, not everyone they pray for or lay hands on is healed. When a healing does occur it is of a quite nature, not showy in any way, no big fan fare. Lives are transformed within a small circle of people, who in turn have the responsibility to transform the next circle of people.

filbertz says:

OK, so you didn’t answer the way I suspected, but I liked your response more. 🙂

Michael says:

Oden,

Well said….

I love the testimonials today…maybe we’re on to something… 🙂

Another Voice says:

In all seriousness Michael. How do Packer and Piper answer your question. (I know how MacArthur and the Dallas guys answer it).

Michael says:

AV,

I don’t know about Piper…I’m not a student of his past his works on justification.

Packer I need to consult…it doesn’t come up in any of his classes, but he has written a lot on pneumatology and I’m in the process of digging through those.

Em says:

Pastor Oden,”I stayed up all night praying in our living room” … i sense that we seldom are as desperate as this, that we don’t give up… we stay upset (shoot up random prayers), yes – or we don’t and call it ‘faith-resting’ – but it is rare for us to hold on and hold on and hold on – praying all night and longer … most of the time it’s not possible to do so – life happens… or so we believe, ie “i’ve got to get to work, school, church etc”
not preachin… just pondering … again

Believe says:

There are certainly Spiritual things that are irrational, illogical. No matter the precision of mental gymnastics, they cannot be explained away in an air-tight “logos” (man’s reason) argument.

Logos (the Word…the Absolute Truth) and the Holy Spirit are often outside of our meager ability to comprehend and “explain”…this is where Child-Like Faith comes in, IMO. Sometimes, I believe, we mistake Wisdom for being intellectual.

Where did the Power go?

Unbelief. Pride. Lack of true surrender. Fear.

The Spirit is all around us and dwells inside of us. Our spirit (the eternal part of us) and the Spirit, as a New Creation, are in-formation (as Sweet puts it)…or in communion…and we war against the flesh.

It is unbelief, pride and fear stemming from our flesh that stops the power at the outlet. We lack the humility to let go and surrender to the Spirit.

We see the examples of the TB’s and the Benny Hinn’s and we cringe. Those are good arguments from the devil for us to hang on to our throne and not surrender to the Spirit, lest we be “fakers” and “charlatans”…like those examples.

You have sincere people starving for the Spirit who follow these men and are disappointed when the “power” they have is a false power.

Motive and the heart also play a part, IMO. Why do you seek a sign? Why do you want a miracle? Is it to “prove” or validate the Faith? Is it for personal gain? To validate “your” ministry? Or is it to give God Glory…to truly point to God’s Power…and not your own.

The other issue is sin. When we embrace a life of sin, we block the Power.

Personal holiness, obedience, connects us to the Power. Not self-righteousness, instead self-denial.

Jesus said if you believe, you can move mountains (kingdoms). I believe it.

Michael says:

Apple,

That was an excellent post…thank you!

Michael says:

More Packer;

“How, theologically, should we evaluate the charismatic movement?

It claims to be a manifestation of spiritual renewal, but some, convinced that the ‘sign-gifts’ were for the apostolic age only and/or discerning no biblical basis for the norm of two-stage entry into full Christian experience, have been inclined to dismiss it as eccentric, neurotic or even demonic. Scripture, however, yields principles for judging whether professedly Christian movements are God-inspired or not; principles about God’s work, will and ways which the apostles are seen applying in letters like Galatians, Colossians, 2 Peter and 1 John to various supposedly super-spiritual versions of the faith.

Two basic tests emerge: one credal, one moral.

When we apply these tests to the charismatic movement it becomes plain that God is in it.

For, whatever threats and perhaps instances of occult and counterfeit spirituality we may think we detect round its periphery (and what movement of revival has ever lacked these things round its periphery?), its main effect everywhere is to promote robust Trinitarian faith, personal fellowship with the divine Saviour and Lord whom we meet in the New Testament, repentance, obedience, and love to fellow-Christians, expressed in ministry of all sorts towards them; plus a zeal for evangelistic outreach which puts the staider sort of churchmen to shame.”

Believe says:

I have witnessed two Miracles in my life.

My son was born 5.5 weeks premature and his lungs were not fully developed. The first hours of his young life were dramatic…very touch and go.

He was swarmed by doctors and nurses…they were frantic. I was completely broken and completely helpless…powerless. I cried out to God for mercy and help.

He answered my prayer.

My son is the healthiest most active little monkey there is. He is alive and thriving…and I thank God for him all the time…and love that kid with all the love a human father can muster.

Could this be explained as a result of modern medicine? Yes, it certainly could…as he is not a unique example of being near death as a premie, only to make a come-back and survive.

However, I KNOW it was a miracle. God intervened and heard my cry. He is the ultimate giver of life and death…modern medicine is a tool…people live and they die…from the same procedures. God had mercy, He healed my son, and I am grateful.

Michael says:

Packer is knocking my socks off…this is so good.

“This suggests our next question. What particular features of the charismatic movement call for unambiguous approval when biblically assessed? A dozen suggest themselves at once.

1) Its stress on personal fellowship with, and devotion to, the living Christ.

2) Its stress on the need to be filled with the Spirit, and to be living a life which one way or another displays the Spirit’s power.

3) Its recognition of, and provision for, the necessary emotional dimension—necessary because we are human beings—in apprehending and responding to the love of God in Christ.

4) Its stress on the need to cultivate an open, ardent, constant, whole-hearted habit of prayer (which, as we saw, is where glossolalia comes in).

5) Its stress on the need to cherish and express Christian joy in both speech and song.

6) Its insistence that each Christian be thoroughly involved in the church’s worship; not necessarily by speaking in the assembly (though that kind of participation, when orderly and well done, must surely be approved), but primarily by opening one’s heart to God in worship and seeking to realize for oneself the divine realities about which the church sings, prays and learns from Scripture.

7) Its concern that all Christians be actively involved in ministry; finding and using their gifts, whatever these prove to be, for others’ welfare.

8 Its missionary zeal and concern to share Christ.

9) Its awareness of the potential of groups. Hummel, with his eyes on the USA, writes of ‘the hundreds of interdenominational fellowship meetings in homes throughout the country. They convene weekly for worship and praise, Bible study, mutual encouragement and exercise of gifts as the Holy Spirit manifests them. These groups supplement the regular services of churches in which the members are usually active. The same is true in England and elsewhere. In a remarkable way the charismatic movement has discovered, or rediscovered, the value of small groups for prayer and ministry.

10) Its stress on the need for church structures to be flexible enough to allow all gifts within a congregation to be fully used.

11) Its experiments in community living; in particular, the establishing of extended families composed of nuclear families who unite to fulfil ministries of shelter and support which no nuclear family on its own could manage.

12) Its cultivation of childlike openness, spontaneity, warmth, and expectancy in relationships with both God and men.”

Another Voice says:

Michael,

I was keeping my powder dry, wondering if someone was going to mention the work of the Spirit in Africa, Asia and other parts of the world. That was my first thought when reading your post this morning – the Body of Christ is worldwide.

Sure enough, leave it to Packer to not only mention it, but to EMBRACE as legitimate what is going on in the Church elsewhere around the globe.

Michael says:

“Now a balancing question. What charismatic characteristics might impede that corporate maturity in Christ at which New Testament teaching aims? Ten defects of charismatic qualities—defects sometimes observed, at least on the movement’s fringes, and always threatening—call for mention here.

1) Elitism In any movement in which significant-seeming things go on, the sense of being a spiritual aristocracy, the feeling that ‘we are the people who really count’, always threatens at gut-level, and verbal disclaimers of this syndrome do not always suffice to keep it at bay. Here elitist tendencies are reinforced by the restorationist theology which sees charismatic experience as the New Testament norm for all time and is inevitably judgemental towards non-charismatic Christianity. When you have gone out on a limb, as many have, in order to seek and find something which you now think everyone should be seeking, though many are not, it is hard not to feel superior.

2) Sectarianism The absorbing intensity of charismatic fellowship, countrywide and worldwide, can produce a damaging insularity whereby charismatics limit themselves to reading charismatic books, hearing charismatic speakers, fellowshipping with other charismatics and backing charismatic causes; and this is the thin end of the sectarian wedge in practice, however firm one’s profession of aiming at catholic unity.

3) Emotionalism Only a fine line divides healthy emotion from un-healthy emotionalism, and any appealing to or playing on emotion crosses that line every time. Though the white-collar charismatic movement of today is (for cultural rather than theological reasons, it seems) generally calmer than original blue-collar Pentecostalism ever was, its preoccupation with expressing feelings of joy and love makes it vulnerable here. Its warmth and liveliness attract highly emotional and disturbed people to its ranks, and many others find in its ritual emotionalism some relief from strains and pressures in other areas of their lives (marriage, work, finance, etc.). But such sharing in group emotion is a self-indulgent escapist ‘trip’ which must debilitate in the long run. Generally, the movement seems to teeter on the edge of emotional self-indulgence in a decidedly dangerous way.

4) Anti-intellectualism Charismatic preoccupation with experience observably inhibits the long, hard theological and ethical reflection for which the New Testament letters so plainly call. The result often is naivety and imbalance in handling the biblical revelation; some themes—gifts and ministry in the body of Christ, for instance—being run to death while others, such as eschatology, get neglected. Looking for a prophecy (supposedly, a direct word from God) when difficult issues arise, rather than embracing the hard grind of prayerful study and analysis, is a tendency that sometimes obtrudes; so at other times does a doctrinaire insistence that for Spirit-filled, Bible-reading Christians all problems of faith and conduct will prove to be simple. The charismatic movement has been called ‘an experience seeking a theology’; ‘lacking’ and ‘needing’ would fit, but whether ‘seeking’ is warranted is open to doubt, sometimes anyhow.

5) Illuminism Sincere but deluded claims to direct divine revelation have been made in the church since the days of the Colossian heretic(s) and the Gnosticizers whose defection called forth 1 John, and since Satan keeps pace with God they will no doubt recur till the Lord returns. At this point the charismatic movement, with its stress on the Spirit’s personal leading, and the revival of revelations via prophecy, is clearly vulnerable. The person with unhealthy ambitions to be a religious leader, dominating a group by giving them the sense that he is closer to God than they are, can easily climb on the charismatic band wagon and find there good-hearted, emotionally dependent folk waiting to be impressed by him; so, too, the opinionated eccentric can easily invoke the Spirit’s direction when he refuses to let his pastor stop him disrupting the congregation with his odd ideas. Living as it does on the edge of illuminism, the movement cannot but have problems here.

6) ‘Charismania’ This is O’Connor’s word for the habit of mind which measures spiritual health, growth and maturity by the number and impressiveness of people’s gifts, and spiritual power by public charismatic manifestations. The habit is bad, for the principle of judgement is false; and where it operates, real growth and maturity are likely to be retarded.

7) ‘Super-supernaturalism’ This is my word for that way of affirming the supernatural which exaggerates its discontinuity with the natural. Reacting against ‘flat-tyre’ versions of Christianity which play down the supernatural and do not expect to see God at work, the super-supernaturalist constantly expects miracles of all sorts—striking demonstrations of God’s presence and power—and he is happiest when he thinks he sees God acting contrary to the nature of things, so confounding common sense.34 For God to proceed slowly and by natural means is to him a disappointment, almost a betrayal. But his undervaluing of the natural, regular and ordinary, shows him to be romantically immature, and weak in his grasp of the realities of creation and providence as basic to God’s work of grace. Charismatic thinking tends to treat glossolalia, in which mind and tongue are deliberately and systematically dissociated, as the paradigm case of spiritual activity, and to expect all God’s work in and around his children to involve similar discontinuity with the ordinary regularities of the created world. This makes for super-supernaturalism almost inevitably.

8 Eudaemonism I use this word for the belief that God means us to spend our time in this fallen world feeling well, and in a state of euphoria based on that fact. Charismatics might deprecate so stark a statement, but the regular and expected projection of euphoria from their platforms and pulpits, plus their standard theology of healing, show that the assumption is there, reflecting and intensifying the ‘now-I-am-happy-all-the-day-and-you-can-be-so-too’ ethos of so much evangelical evangelism since D. L. Moody. Charismatics, picking up the healing emphasis of original restorationist Pentecostalism—an emphasis already strong in ‘holiness’ circles in North America before Pentecostalism arrived—regularly assume that physical disorder and discomfort is not ordinarily God’s beneficent will for his children.On this basis, with paradigmatic appeal to the healings of Jesus and the apostles, plus the claim, founded on Isaiah 53:3-6 and 10 as interpreted in Matthew 8:16 f and 1 Peter 2:24, that there is healing in the atonement, plus reference to Paul’s phrase ‘charismata of healings’ (‘gifts of healings’, AV; ‘healers’, RSV) in 1 Corinthians 12:28, they make supernatural divine healing (which includes, according to testimony, lengthening of legs, straightening of spines and, in South America, filling of teeth) a matter of constant expectation, and look for healing gifts in their leaders almost as a matter of course. But the texts quoted will not bear the weight put upon them, and New Testament references to sickness among Christian leaders that was not supernaturally healed make it plain that good health at all times is not
God’s will for all believers. Also, the charismatic supposition loses sight of the good that can come in the form of wisdom, patience and acceptance of reality without bitterness when Christians are exposed to the discipline of pain and of remaining unhealed.Moreover, the charismatic supposition creates appalling possibilities of distress when on the basis of it a person seeks healing, fails to find it, and then perhaps is told that the reason lies not in God’s unwillingness or inability to heal, but in his own lack of faith. Without doubting that God can and sometimes does heal supernaturally today, and that healings of various kinds do in fact cluster round some people’s ministries, I judge this expression of the eudaemonist streak in charismatic thought to be a major mistake, and one which makes against Christian maturity in a quite radical way.

9) Demon-obsession In recovering a sense of the supernaturalness of God, charismatics have grown vividly aware of the reality of supernatural personal evil, and there is no doubt that their development of ‘deliverance’ ministry and the impulse they have given to the renewal of exorcism have been salutary for many. But if all life is seen as a battle with demons in such a way that Satan and his hosts get blamed for bad health, bad thoughts and bad behaviour without reference to physical, psychological and relational factors in the situation, a very unhealthy demonic counterpart of super-supernaturalism is being developed. There is no doubt that this sometimes happens, and that it is a major obstacle to moral and spiritual maturity when it does.

10) Conformism Group pressure is tyrannical at the best of times, and never more so than when the group in question believes itself to be super-spiritual, and finds the evidence of its members’ spirituality in their power to perform along approved lines. Inevitably, peer pressure to perform (hands raised, hands outstretched, glossolalia, prophecy) is strong in charismatic circles; inevitably, too, the moment one starts living to the group and its expectations rather than to the Lord one is enmeshed in a new legalistic bondage, whereby from yet another angle Christian maturity is threatened.

Yet, having said all this, it is well to remind ourselves that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. No type of Christian spirituality is free from dangers, weaknesses and threats to maturity arising from its very strengths, and it is not as if Christian maturity (which includes all-round liveliness of response to God, as well as sobriety of judgement) were overwhelmingly visible in non-charismatic circles today. In matters of this kind it is the easiest thing in the world to dilate on specks in my brother’s eye and to ignore logs in my own; so we had better move quietly on.

Michael says:

AV,

I’m having a personal revival meeting at the moment… 🙂

Let me say again that I thank God for Dr. Packer and I thank AV for making me dig to find this stuff.

Michael says:

DavidM,

You have hit a lick here…as I read the Gospels the power is combined with prayer and persecution…the 3 Ps if you will.

Great insights David.

Believe says:

David M…wow, great post.

Not Alone says:

DavidM, you are a blessed man to have seen and been apart of that. How cool for you. I hope it stains you for good.

Tim Graham says:

The power never left, but the times of His visitation in power for large groups of people are under His sovereign control.

I encourage you to read Jonathan Edwards “Distinguishing Mark of a Work of the Spirit of God” for an account of an outpouring of power in the Great Awakening.

And for a recent example of an individual act of God’s power, take a look at the testimony posted at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-shore/i-a-rabid-anti-christian_b_551799.html .

The Lord moves in power in individual ways every day, but the great moves are at times of His choosing — and those times have little to do with man’s devising or choosing. All we can do is pray for them and eagerly desire them.

Isaiah56:1 says:

and I want to go visit Oden’s fellowship!

Em says:

i just noticed the “share” icon thingie in the lower left corner of the threads – there have been a few times where i have selected & copied whole threads because i just had to share what you all were commenting – is this capability new or am i really, really sloooow 😳

Not Alone says:

DavidM “Yeah, I know these experiences do fade, so I want to kind of strike while the iron’s hot and make lasting changes now, not later when it’s all too far in the rear view mirror.”

I like that, strike while the iron is hot. When I was younger I wanted to be an over seas missionary and did a few months at a time down in Mexico to get a taste. I love it, but each time I cam back to school and got caught up in the day to day grind, the passion would fade. I missed my calling, I think. Those were the best times in my life.

Please everyone, no lectures on how I can do that right here in my own community. I know that and I do it. But it’s not the same. Like you said David, you got that experience in another country, probably because their culture is different in regards to their passion for the Lord and their faith and ability to express that.

Believe says:

ODM…stick around…engage in a discussion.

Waytooclose says:

Group,
I know I’m new here but I’ll put $100.00 on the table that Ted Haggard starts a new church in Colorado Springs within the next 6-9 months.
After the meeting I just had, this is another reason why we see the power of the Spirit being ‘rare’ in these days. Very sad stuff.

bishopdave says:

Michael, thank you for opening this discussion today. IMHO, one of the most convicting, encouraging, challenging, and messing my theology up all at the same time.

Poor ODM, see if you open up discussions on your blog it just might turn into something that is actually helpful.

Believe says:

Could the Son of Perdition…be the 12th Imam?

Are we missing the forest from the trees with all this Christian in-fighting?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3642984/Will-the-12th-Imam-cause-war-with-Iran.html

Martin Luther's Disciple says:

I didn’t read the comments – so perhaps someone already said this. The power is still there in full force. Look at all the new Christians each week at churches. Look at the great work being done in Asia, and Africa.

Again, if we are looking for the spectacular or we are looking within, we will be sorely disappointed every time. But if we look to Jesus, He is the one who does it all – and He has not slowed down or stopped since the beginning. Praise God for His power!

Everstudy says:

I had my back supernaturally healed once. Threw it out on a Friday night at work, and on Sunday after the service I asked one of the assistant pastors to anoint me with oil and pray for me. As he prayed I felt my back loosen up to the point where I could stand up straight with no pain at all.

Still amazes me.

Everstudy (going back to Everstudy since there’s another David M here now… don’t want to confuse myself :-). )

odenfong says:

Erunner, thank you for your kind words! We miss you and Mrs. Erunner a lot!

In all honesty, I have no idea why God heals some and not others. One of my sons was healed miraculously in one night. Another son was not healed even when literally tens of thousands of people all over the world were praying for him.

I prayed fervently for one son for a night and he was healed. I prayed fervently day and night for two months for my infant son and he still had to have a liver transplant.

I’ve prayed for people with cancer,AIDs and other illnesses and afflictions and they have been healed immediately. I’ve prayed for countless people who were not healed and some died not long after I prayed for them!

I prayed for a women who didn’t believe she could be healed and didn’t believe that God would heal her. I was so upset with her attitude that I didn’t believe God would heal her, but she was healed in spite of our unbelief!

It’s a mystery to me why God does what He does. I only know that God doesn’t want me to stop praying or believing in faith that He will do what I ask Him to do (for others). Even if my prayers fail a hundred times in a row, God still wants me to pray, believing, nothing wavering.

I have learned not to be discouraged when God doesn’t heal someone. This way, I can continue to pray, believing that the person I pray for will be healed. It’s the only way that works for me.

Em says:

i get chills hearing Pastors Oden’s and DM’s miracles… that said, healings are a dicey thing to attach one’s faith to IMO … if i or someone has prayed for healing and healing occurs, i’ll praise and thank God. that’s a given
however, on some level every human’s mental/emotional outlook interacts with our physical – that mysterious wiring diagram that is interdependent and seems to control every cell from our brain down to our toes and all that miraculous goo in between – a good outlook, even among the unredeemed, heals to a remarkable degree
just sayin … again

james tiberius kirk says:

Michael,
You and your ruthlessness is why I keep coming back.

My safeguard is what the Word says, and where Jesus leads…..ALWAYS go there, no matter what labels people try to put on you.

On the “verification” and “proof” issue, I can’t get much further than John 9; we may think Jesus receives the glory when it’s “proven”, but scripture often implies the opposite.

Shoooot, they wanted to murder Lazarus AFTER he was raised from the dead.

Thanks for an insightful discussion.

and ODM: THANKS FOR SHOUTING YOUR POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David Sloane says:

Holy Spirit ignite us!

brian says:

Lutheran LOL

deadmanwalking says:

One thing I’ve seen that I know is wrong is when people try to conjure up the Holy Spirit.
Remember the Holy Spirit is God. He is not to be manipulated by any of our antics.

We Worship and adore God. Now to try to get God to do anything, but because He is God.

We pray we don’t conjure

and brian — not even fear will keep Jesus from blessing you. Nothing shall separate us from the Love of God. And Nothing means nothing

Dansk says:

Just got this in an email from a friend of longstanding,. Sounds like “power” to me!

—

In Manila we held a conference for many pastors & church leadership teams. We focused on the power Prophetic Art has to release the Kingdom into all areas of life, with interactive activations in drama, painting & drawing, music, singing, dance, healing, words of knowledge & prophecy. Then we took the several hundred attendees out into the city to apply these new skills on Treasure Hunts and doing dramas, music, and children’s ministry in the parks. They stepped out and saw many saved, healed and delivered. We saw blind eyes & deaf ears opened, back braces, walkers and canes discarded, and hundreds of powerful miracles. Sunday we split up and attended 5 different churches, going out into those communities to see remarkable healing and salvation. That night we held a healing crusade for over 800 people where 300 to 400 came forward to experience His Love, salvation and life transforming power. Hundreds were healed. As I spoke, I actually got to see the swirling cloud of His Glory as it descended on whole groups of people and they were healed! Three severe cases got up out of wheelchairs and walked! Eyes and ears were opened! One woman came to me with severe, intense pain in her ovaries & spine. I stepped back and saw a “spear” protruding out of her belly, which went through her ovaries and lodged in her spine. I told her, and asked if I could pull it out. When I did she gasped and her hands shot up and all the pain left her. We broke off a curse placed against her child bearing and motherhood. She twirled around, dancing and shouting “Hallelujah!” in total freedom.

deadmanwalking says:

I had dropped acid so many times all I can do is estimate it to be over 200 times, probably closer to 300. A few times I took massive doses. It left me psychotic. I was in my own world. It the hell in earth. I knew I would never recover and feared spending my life in an institution. My thinking was so fragmented that I could not make a sandwich for myself, let alone performed any complex task needed to survive out on my own. My official diagnosis was Paranoid schizoid psychotic. I was aware enough to know that I could never drop acid again, so I told my friend I was leaving California and heading for the Northwest. He talked me into staying for labor day, so I did. We hitchhiked up into the mountains to Big Bear. during our stay, a guy walked by held out his hand with two hits of acid, and I took one. Then realized what I did, I don’t know how I know, but I knew if my heart of hearts I had no chance of ever coming down from that hellish trip. in the midst of the trip something my older sister told me when I was a little kid came back to me, she said “if you are ever in really serious trouble call on the name of Jesus” So I did. In the twinkling of an eye I was down from the acid, my mind was healed as well as my body, and in my heart the knowledge of the Gospel was just in my mind. I had no Christian termology, it was a pure transference of termonology. The concept was just in my mind. I know I was separated from God by sin (I didn’t know what sin really was) I knew I needed to find others who believed in Jesus and hang out with them, I knew I needed to teach myself how to read and read the Bible, and I knew that God would hear my prayers.

The rest of this story would take a small book, so I will go fast forward to a day I was talking with my friend as we were trying to figure out how to find people who believed in Jesus. (in those days people who looked like me were not welcomed in many churches. As we talked we saw a friend we had not seen in a while and started to tell him what we were trying to figure out. He told us of a Church in Costa Mesa where it was filled with freaks, so we all set a time to go and we went to pick him up, and he told us he had invited some Sisters to come along. Now to me a Sister was a Nun. I felt really ill at ease, but if this is what it took to follow the one to saved me so be it, I was so releived when the three girls who jumped in the car with us were hippy chicks. One was still in 11th grade, but in time (a couple of years) She became my wife. So I met Jesus and my wife the same week.

How can I not believe in Miracles?
How can I not follow Him?
How can I not give Him my all?

Linnea says:

John, what a beautiful testimony. Our God truly is an awesome God.

Babylon's Dread says:

We have testimonies of healing almost every week. Sometimes they are weak and really sound like someone’s attempt at being ‘included’ we do not embarrass these folk but their testimony falls kind of flat… but always there will be those whose testimony is remarkably clear.

Last week a man with stomach problems, and no insurance who has been beset by his malady and prevented from his work…he received healing two weeks ago on a Friday night and has been happily working and paying his bills since. I have known this man for a year and he was clearly blessed by this gift.

Further a man with a shoulder problem was healed the first time I prayed for him … he told me this last week. I was told he has been testifying about it everywhere for years. So he prayed for my wrist(computer/blackberry injury) as he wanted to ‘return the blessing’

As for deliverance …it is a weekly occurrence in our ministry and it is the most common manifestation of God’s healing. It is easy to do (though sometimes it takes time as Oden said) but demons flee from Christ and any believer who knows who he/she is in Christ can cast them out.

I have not seen a major healing lately and it troubles me as I have a number of very very ill people in my church and recently a young woman died breaking our hearts.

God is shaking up the renewal family I walk with, liars are being exposed, false prophets are being embarrassed, false apostles are being shown unworthy to follow. Repentance has found its way into our camp. I am hopeful…but guarded as those who are greedy for gain seem to abound.

When testimonies are the legal tender of a movement lies and liars cannot be tolerated. Does anyone have a clue why God was so severe with Ananias and wife but seems so patient with us? That befuddles me but I am glad to have my life extended by those mercies.

Anyway, I was silent on this thread, as I mostly am these days, but I wanted to share a bit, my testimony actually supports both sides… the power is on but not an unbroken endless supply… not in my life. But I continue onward… the limping healer.

Oh and by the way Ted and Gayle Haggard are going to be at my place this weekend. Their future plans will soon be announced as well.

Peace to all, Let us not grow weary of doing good.