Teaching/preaching tomorrow, a sermon entitled “The Revolving Door Church”.
Want to address two topics.
How to choose a church to commit to.
How to leave a church.
My desire is to pastor people on to their next church experience.
If we are not a good fit, then I hope that I can recommend other churches in our city, and make healthy suggestions for them, and help people land in a good place.
I would much rather send people with prayers and blessings, than to hear they disappeared 3 months after the fact.
any geniuses here? what is cyber space trying to tell me?
the computer was asleep as i vacuumed around the desk and keyboard just now (i thot it was asleep) – it flashed on and ‘googled’: “22rf yh 9ik,,p”
the scary part is that produced a whole long list of hits:
Coefficient matrices for implicit finite difference solution of …
Stochastic and quantum incoherence in optical processes – Elsevier…
[PDF] Synthesis of enantiomericaly pure γ-lactones from 2,3-O …
etc
since this is open blog, i thot i’d share – there may be a spiritual application 🙄 dunno
Pastor Bill, just so long as folks understand the ideal is that we all enjoy each other… even if the reality is that we don’t all fit together 😉
praying – good topic IMO
Just got back from a great little hole in the wall restaurant, that I’m sure barely passes health inspection, but has great food and interesting ambiance. Yummmm
Em,
We are all one Body, and the Lord places us in different fellowships.
As a pastor, I worry about people when they leave.
I have had some folks leave after we have talked about it, and mutually agreed that they could serve the Lord better with another fellowship.
Another church was a better fit for them.
That is a huge blessing to me as a pastor.
There are no no hard feelings, etc.
There is mutual joy and respect.
I hope that we can remove some of the awkwardness out of people making healthy changes re. where they attend corporate worship services.
I hope we can help prepare them to make good choices.
I hope that this will prevent schisms in the Body and further unity among the greater church of Napa.
Bill… that is the healthiest attitude I’ve seen from a Pastor. The reality is that people leave churches. A church cannot be everything to everyone. Some may have giftings that are redundant in a church and could be better used elsewhere. To keep communication open is critical and will result in exits on mutual and congenial terms. My worst experiences have been when a pastor or pastor’s wife are not open to talking and no mutual understanding can be achieved.
Will there be a copy of this message posted anywhere, such as church website? I’m preaching something similar in a few weeks and would love to hear your perspectives…
Linnea….yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, I have done it the wrong way a few times. 🙁
PH…I hope to have the written notes and audio posted on my blog by Monday afternoon. http://www.pastorbillwalden.com
I hope and pray that your preaching goes well.
Maybe you should go first, and then i can borrow from you. 😉
…adding to Linnea’s 1:24pm…and sometimes lay-people are in the wrong…it is still incumbent on the pastor to take the high road, and example Jesus Christ…even if the people are jerks to the pastor…that’s really where the rubber meets the road, IMO.
London 🙂 of course the people shouldn’t be jerks…but the “stronger” brother/sister should be a good example to the “weaker” brother/sister…at least that’s my take.
By way of confession, Bill Walden is a better pastor than me. I don’t know that I could preach that message. Yes, I know and have experienced ,as every pastor has, the revolving door syndrome. I Don’t try to fight it and have learned to get past most of the awkwardness of meeting people who have left at Costco, But I want people to stay and discover their gift and serve learn and grow, thru the times they don’t “feel” good about church. Sure there are good reasons to move on but some times, even better reasons to stay.
I am interested to hear how Bill’s message is received and what fruit it bears.
I respect Bill and where I think he is going with this. My only concern would be that this message be construed as a “pre-emptive strike” – telling folks who are not looking to leave the church that they should consider leaving it.
But then I am tired and thoughts get even more confused.
Papias, yep heard that teaching in a ministry meeting once and three of us thought we were being told to move on. Thankfully we were mature enough not to let our emotions get the better of us and went to the leaders and asked if that was the intent. They assured us it was not and I served another 5 years in that particular ministry.
Just want to complain about the multitude of “verses out of context” based sermons that I’ve heard lately. If one is going to preach, please make sure that the sermon is based upon what the text actually says in its context, not upon what you want it to say or upon the ambiguities of the English language.
another thot on quoting/using verses out of context… there are scholars who know the Word well and who quote a verse or reference a verse and we think, “that’s out of context.” It well may be that they are and we need to be Berean always. But there are times when a scripture has a deep, profound connection to another teaching – and, while it’s tedious to do so (some scholars just aren’t good teachers), those are the times when we need them to take the time to tie it all together…
On the other hand 😆 some take that as an opportunity to snow us, so… if it doesn’t make sense, don’t buy it, eh?
Regarding context, we need to take it further, to remember that each writer had the context of culture and the technological tools of their times, and that a given piece of literature is framed by it’s type (a psalm is not the same as an epistle, though there is poety to be found in some epistles). Finally, we need to really take care not to bring 21st century meanings and applications where they were never intended (like the authors of the past century liked to do when speculating that imagery in Revelation was helicopters or a one world banking system).
Having said that, there is a freedom to make a disclaimer, “This passage really speaks to me and inspires me, or concerns me. I think about ______, and imagine ______…”
When a presenter does that I can respect the little side journey because then we’re relating in a community setting and to hear someones response to an ancient passage is usually interesting.
Off topic, but yesterday I put up 18 jars of spiced apricot jam and 4 of mint jelly, which called for…..homemade whole wheat bread today. I don’t know what I was thinking!
Thanks for the comments on context. I don’t expect to agree with everything I hear, but when it’s clear that the pastor hasn’t done a basic study of the passage it is annoying.
All Grendal is saying concerning context is worth considering when ever we approach a biblical text. We must remember that the original writers had something in mind that they, thru the inspiration of God wanted to communicate. It is our job as people who read scripture and pastors who preach to take all those things into consideration when we approach the text. We cannot allow the text to be culturized nor can we try to make a passage say now what it didn’t mean then.
First?
Guess I’ll hang out here by myself, say a prayer while the battle is engaged on digital terrain 😉
Hi, Linnea!
Teaching/preaching tomorrow, a sermon entitled “The Revolving Door Church”.
Want to address two topics.
How to choose a church to commit to.
How to leave a church.
My desire is to pastor people on to their next church experience.
If we are not a good fit, then I hope that I can recommend other churches in our city, and make healthy suggestions for them, and help people land in a good place.
I would much rather send people with prayers and blessings, than to hear they disappeared 3 months after the fact.
Here goes nuthin’.
Music is up for the week. Feel free to drop by for some nice praise & worship.
http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/praise-worship-july-10th-2010/
any geniuses here? what is cyber space trying to tell me?
the computer was asleep as i vacuumed around the desk and keyboard just now (i thot it was asleep) – it flashed on and ‘googled’: “22rf yh 9ik,,p”
the scary part is that produced a whole long list of hits:
Coefficient matrices for implicit finite difference solution of …
Stochastic and quantum incoherence in optical processes – Elsevier…
[PDF] Synthesis of enantiomericaly pure γ-lactones from 2,3-O …
etc
since this is open blog, i thot i’d share – there may be a spiritual application 🙄 dunno
Pastor Bill, just so long as folks understand the ideal is that we all enjoy each other… even if the reality is that we don’t all fit together 😉
praying – good topic IMO
Hi Michael, Bill, ERunner and Em!
Just got back from a great little hole in the wall restaurant, that I’m sure barely passes health inspection, but has great food and interesting ambiance. Yummmm
Em…you may be onto something inadvertently! It’s decidedly mathematical, and therefore way outside my realm of comprehension!
Em,
We are all one Body, and the Lord places us in different fellowships.
As a pastor, I worry about people when they leave.
I have had some folks leave after we have talked about it, and mutually agreed that they could serve the Lord better with another fellowship.
Another church was a better fit for them.
That is a huge blessing to me as a pastor.
There are no no hard feelings, etc.
There is mutual joy and respect.
I hope that we can remove some of the awkwardness out of people making healthy changes re. where they attend corporate worship services.
I hope we can help prepare them to make good choices.
I hope that this will prevent schisms in the Body and further unity among the greater church of Napa.
Bill Walden…that is a really good attitude and example, FWIW.
hi bacatcha Linnea, if my late husband, the genius, was still here, he could tell me what i’d done and he’d get a kick out of it… i think…
agreeing with comment #11
Thanks @ 11 & 13.
We’ll see how it goes.
Bill… that is the healthiest attitude I’ve seen from a Pastor. The reality is that people leave churches. A church cannot be everything to everyone. Some may have giftings that are redundant in a church and could be better used elsewhere. To keep communication open is critical and will result in exits on mutual and congenial terms. My worst experiences have been when a pastor or pastor’s wife are not open to talking and no mutual understanding can be achieved.
Bill,
Will there be a copy of this message posted anywhere, such as church website? I’m preaching something similar in a few weeks and would love to hear your perspectives…
Linnea….yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, I have done it the wrong way a few times. 🙁
PH…I hope to have the written notes and audio posted on my blog by Monday afternoon.
http://www.pastorbillwalden.com
I hope and pray that your preaching goes well.
Maybe you should go first, and then i can borrow from you. 😉
…adding to Linnea’s 1:24pm…and sometimes lay-people are in the wrong…it is still incumbent on the pastor to take the high road, and example Jesus Christ…even if the people are jerks to the pastor…that’s really where the rubber meets the road, IMO.
why isn’t it incumbent on the people to not be jerks in the first place?
London 🙂 of course the people shouldn’t be jerks…but the “stronger” brother/sister should be a good example to the “weaker” brother/sister…at least that’s my take.
and what says that the “stornger” person has to be the one with the title of “pastor”?
You’re making up your own rules and getting indignant when people don’t follow them.
I love that about ya 😉
Believe …link your website to your name that would help …
London…thanks, I think 😆
Dread, let’s see if this worked…
…yeppers. Thanks for the advice Dreadful one. 🙂
By way of confession, Bill Walden is a better pastor than me. I don’t know that I could preach that message. Yes, I know and have experienced ,as every pastor has, the revolving door syndrome. I Don’t try to fight it and have learned to get past most of the awkwardness of meeting people who have left at Costco, But I want people to stay and discover their gift and serve learn and grow, thru the times they don’t “feel” good about church. Sure there are good reasons to move on but some times, even better reasons to stay.
All that to say Bill’s message is very courageous
I am interested to hear how Bill’s message is received and what fruit it bears.
I respect Bill and where I think he is going with this. My only concern would be that this message be construed as a “pre-emptive strike” – telling folks who are not looking to leave the church that they should consider leaving it.
But then I am tired and thoughts get even more confused.
Papias, yep heard that teaching in a ministry meeting once and three of us thought we were being told to move on. Thankfully we were mature enough not to let our emotions get the better of us and went to the leaders and asked if that was the intent. They assured us it was not and I served another 5 years in that particular ministry.
Bill Walden, you are my hero!!! (in a brotherly, non-pedestal placing sort of way 😉 )
Definitely want to hear the message.
well Believe it was said with just a “wee bit” of sarcasm 😉
Just want to complain about the multitude of “verses out of context” based sermons that I’ve heard lately. If one is going to preach, please make sure that the sermon is based upon what the text actually says in its context, not upon what you want it to say or upon the ambiguities of the English language.
another thot on quoting/using verses out of context… there are scholars who know the Word well and who quote a verse or reference a verse and we think, “that’s out of context.” It well may be that they are and we need to be Berean always. But there are times when a scripture has a deep, profound connection to another teaching – and, while it’s tedious to do so (some scholars just aren’t good teachers), those are the times when we need them to take the time to tie it all together…
On the other hand 😆 some take that as an opportunity to snow us, so… if it doesn’t make sense, don’t buy it, eh?
Regarding context, we need to take it further, to remember that each writer had the context of culture and the technological tools of their times, and that a given piece of literature is framed by it’s type (a psalm is not the same as an epistle, though there is poety to be found in some epistles). Finally, we need to really take care not to bring 21st century meanings and applications where they were never intended (like the authors of the past century liked to do when speculating that imagery in Revelation was helicopters or a one world banking system).
Having said that, there is a freedom to make a disclaimer, “This passage really speaks to me and inspires me, or concerns me. I think about ______, and imagine ______…”
When a presenter does that I can respect the little side journey because then we’re relating in a community setting and to hear someones response to an ancient passage is usually interesting.
Off topic, but yesterday I put up 18 jars of spiced apricot jam and 4 of mint jelly, which called for…..homemade whole wheat bread today. I don’t know what I was thinking!
Linnea, I will put the kettle on. Bring over your bread and jam. We can sip tea and eat toast and jam and listen to Pastor Bill’s message. 😉
Nonnie…that sounds like a grand plan! Wish we were near geographically!
Thanks for the comments on context. I don’t expect to agree with everything I hear, but when it’s clear that the pastor hasn’t done a basic study of the passage it is annoying.
All Grendal is saying concerning context is worth considering when ever we approach a biblical text. We must remember that the original writers had something in mind that they, thru the inspiration of God wanted to communicate. It is our job as people who read scripture and pastors who preach to take all those things into consideration when we approach the text. We cannot allow the text to be culturized nor can we try to make a passage say now what it didn’t mean then.
Nonnie and Linnea are havin’ a partay!!! 🙂
The house I grew up in had an apricot tree in the backyard. Mom would make jam. Boy do I miss that, and her.